Why do we call the US America?

[Unndunn]

When I saw the title of this thread I assumed it was a question, but that was before I read the first few posts and saw that there was already an answer given. Is everyone with a different opinion on this subject an arrogant, classist, racist? I hope not.

My reason for referring to my country as the United States of America or my nationality as American is because that's what our country is named. When the founding fathers of the USA wrote our Declaration of Independence, that's what they called it. Were the people of South America referring to any of their countries as "America" at the same time, or calling themselves "Americans"? If so, Jefferson and Adams and Franklin and everyone else involved back then owe them an apology.

My understanding has been that the USA is the only country with "America" in its title. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone here will point it out. I think we shorten the name of our country because it's easier to say.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Unndunn

My reason for referring to my country as the United States of America or my nationality as American is because that's what our country is named. When the founding fathers of the USA wrote our Declaration of Independence, that's what they called it. Were the people of South America referring to any of their countries as "America" at the same time, or calling themselves "Americans"? If so, Jefferson and Adams and Franklin and everyone else involved back then owe them an apology.

My understanding has been that the USA is the only country with "America" in its title. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone here will point it out. I think we shorten the name of our country because it's easier to say.

I respect your reason for calling yourself American, I do. In the end you call yourself an American just because it is easier, shortening and all, not because it is what your country was named, otherwise you would have to call yourself a United States of America, right? So it all boils down to easy and not accuracy. I understand this, as I do this many times myself (my entire family are all US Citizens) but basically, what I think Apocalisptic was trying to do was raise awareness. The forefathers also wrote about the right to own slaves and such, this doesn't mean they owe anyone an apology, that would be impossible. In any event, they did not name the US America, since that was already taken by an entire continent, did they?

I think what is lacking is the knowledge that America is a continent. I did some consulting work for a Canadian firm and they always made the distinction and that made me aware that this was a US thing. Whenever they referred to the way they did things in Canada or the US as opposed to here in Colombia, they always said...oh this is how this or that is done in North America. I found that very respectful.

Originally Posted by Bit

When I said, "before there were any independent countries here" I meant on the two continents named America, and I myself made it pretty doggoned clear in that post that Europeans referred to the continent as "America." I really don't see how anyone could have missed that, given the rest of my post... but hey, I italicized it this time just to make it clear.

Thank you for the clarification, albeit a little snarky. Judging by your clarification, I must be pretty darn stupid, he he

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

otherwise you would have to call yourself a United States of America, right?

Right. Because folks from Mexico refer to themselves as "United Mexican States Citizens" (or more likely Estados Unidos Mexicanos, but you get my drift)

And people from Colombia? as "Republican of Colombia"

And how about those from Brazil? as "Federative Republicans of Brazil"

And those from Germany? "Federal Republican of Germany"

And how about those zany occupants of France? "French Republicans"

And let's not forget the good people of "The People's Republic of China" (Yeah... what would that be? "A Person of the Republic of China" - rolls right off the tongue)

Again, I realize I didn't pay a lot of attention in school (I'm sure it'll come as a shock to you all that I thought I knew it all as a teenager too), but I do believe the US(ofA) was recognized as a country before any other foreign colony on the North or South American continents. And yes, the founding fathers decreed that their newly established nation would be called "The United States of America". While I wasn't there, and do not know if their intent was to crowd out the ability for any other person living on the continents to feel comfy calling themselves an American - I some how doubt it.

Why are those of you up in arms about this flap not screaming bloody murder about the audacity of the Australians? Well the poor sorry sods in Papua New Guinea and Indonesia must really hate life. Maybe it's not an issue any longer because the continental naming convention is seen as evolving from the Australian Continent to Oceania in some circles.

And lest us not forget the continent Africa and the nation of South Africa or is that not so important nor confusing?

This hub bub over what others call us? Lots of hot air. I don't know anyone from Germany, France, Spain, Italy or Portugal who calls themselves a European. They, seemingly more so to me, are far too nationalistic to be grouped with other nations under such an umbrella term as "European". Those from *outside* Europe? Yep, you bet! Although mostly I hear this in terms of descriptors "Oh, he's so European looking" sort of thing. The individuals from those European nation generally refer to themselves as "German", "French", "Spanish", "Italian" or "Portuguese". You'll note that each of these labels are formed off the unique identifier of their proper national name. So the call to arms to use another label for ourselves (USAian - yeah, I want to hear you call yourself that) seems rather silly. Should there not, instead, be a call to change the name of the nation? Or maybe the continent?

One *really* could argue that we're much more brash and insensitive to say that we're "from the States" or "from the US" as though it's the only organization of states in the world when clearly the United Mexican States and the Federated States of Micronesia both exist.

And I agree. Our bad rap has much more to do with our politics and general poor manners (not that self absorption isn't chief amongst our poor manners) over the last 40 years than it does with what the Founding Fathers so blithely determined we would wind up calling ourselves over the next many millenia.

/soapbox of crankiness

[Selenay]

Originally Posted by Enchantress

Selenay, just for clarification, the statement above (not yours, but UofM's) was an inside joke between the two of us. It is not in any way meant as racist, bigoted or malicious (even though without having inside knowledge you might somehow see it differently). So, please, do not take it as such.

Thanks!

(Apologies for taking this thread off topic; I'll let it go after this post)

I can understand that it was a joke meant in good fun, but to an outside observer it was callous and uncalled for. I'm not telling you, any of you, not to joke but perhaps cautioning you to think twice about where it is posted. Because no, I don't know you, or UofM, but I'm reading this thread, too, and I'm going to respond where I see posts worth calling out.

[Enchantress]

Originally Posted by Selenay

(Apologies for taking this thread off topic; I'll let it go after this post)

I can understand that it was a joke meant in good fun, but to an outside observer it was callous and uncalled for. I'm not telling you, any of you, not to joke but perhaps cautioning you to think twice about where it is posted. Because no, I don't know you, or UofM, but I'm reading this thread, too, and I'm going to respond where I see posts worth calling out.

Please forgive me, however I don't see where one could have even assumed what you did (from what was written).

I'm quite aware that others read this thread.

I must be honest and let you know that your response to what you assumed was a racist statement was offensive to me.

When in doubt, investigate and ask questions before attacking. It's a good rule of thumb, not only in the forums but for life in general.

As you've stated you don't know me and I do not know you.

However, I tend to be respectful when adressing others or topics that I may find offensive. It's the way I believe life should be lived, but everyone has their own way of thought...

Again, you still have no idea what the original sentence was about, and I have no intention of clarifying any further. Suffice it to say, it was not even based in the direction you took it.

I too will make this my last response in regard to said subject.

Enjoy your day, Selenay.

Respectfully,

Enchantress

[Selenay]

Originally Posted by Enchantress

Please forgive me, however I don't see where one could have even assumed what you did (from what was written).

I'm quite aware that others read this thread.

snipsnip

Enjoy your day, Selenay.

Respectfully,

Enchantress

I will PM you, Enchantress, so we can continue this dialogue and perhaps clear a few things up *s

[Enchantress]

Originally Posted by Selenay

I will PM you, Enchantress, so we can continue this dialogue and perhaps clear a few things up *s

Sounds like a great idea, thank you.

[UofMfan]

Waldo, that is what you are going by these days right? I can understand how names are really not important to you. Having said that, I can see where you would find logic in your post. Fact is, Germany, Mexico, China or even Brazil are not the names of continents, so it is fine for them to call themselves Chinese, Brazilian,etc. since by doing so they are not insulting anyone else.

I don't expect you to see the fact that the more you and others defend your point of view, the more you prove the fact that it is arrogant.

I have to hand it to you though, at least you, unlike Bit, do not think that there are two continents named America.

[Waldo]

Dude. Check your geography. There are only two. Central America is part of the North American continent.

Further. I think my work here is done.

Originally Posted by UofMfan

Waldo, that is what you are going by these days right? I can understand how names are really not important to you. Having said that, I can see where you would find logic in your post. Fact is, Germany, Mexico, China or even Brazil are not the names of continents, so it is fine for them to call themselves Chinese, Brazilian,etc. since by doing so they are not insulting anyone else.

I don't expect you to see the fact that the more you and others defend your point of view, the more you prove the fact that it is arrogant.

I have to hand it to you though, at least you, unlike Bit, do not think that there are two continents named America.

[Write14u]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

Waldo, that is what you are going by these days right? I can understand how names are really not important to you. Having said that, I can see where you would find logic in your post. Fact is, Germany, Mexico, China or even Brazil are not the names of continents, so it is fine for them to call themselves Chinese, Brazilian,etc. since by doing so they are not insulting anyone else.

I don't expect you to see the fact that the more you and others defend your point of view, the more you prove the fact that it is arrogant.

I have to hand it to you though, at least you, unlike Bit, do not think that there are two continents named America.

Out of curiosity, how do most in Columbia identify themselves? South Americans? Or are they Columbians first?

And as I asked before: What exactly is stopping anyone in the Americas from calling themselves American?

And for the record, your snark toward Bit does little to cover YOUR arrogance, which is a nice touch when you're trying to point out ours.

[Apocalipstic]

It is awkward, I get it. Our country has a long name which is also the name of a Continent (or 2 or 3 depending on your views...I like to think of us as one).

Actually I learned that the US were not the only Americans and it hurts people's feelings that we think that when I lived in South America....I wish I had come up with it on my own, but as a small child in Argentina I was constantly reminded that the entire continent is America and it is arrogant etc to call ourselves Americans.

Now what to call ourselves? It is awkward....we watched a WWII movie this weekend, and it was the British, the Japanese, the Canadians and the American's. The soldiers from the USA does seem awkward when everyone else has nice short names....and I totally get that for many people Yanks is derogatory (not for me, I could care less personally)

Maybe we say American because it's easiest?

I do try to make a point of saying US and USA when I can and wonder in what other ways I can be respectful to the fact that the US is not the only America.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Write14u

Out of curiosity, how do most in Columbia identify themselves? South Americans? Or are they Columbians first?

And as I asked before: What exactly is stopping anyone in the Americas from calling themselves American?

And for the record, your snark toward Bit does little to cover YOUR arrogance, which is a nice touch when you're trying to point out ours.

I know many in people in South America actually identify as many people in North America do...from their ancestral history...like German, Irish, Swiss, Spanish, Italian, Lebanese, and so forth.

Does not make it any easier.

[NJFemmie]

If I am going to call myself anything, I'll call myself American. Honestly, if someone finds that offensive, I can't help that. They can say they are American too. Am I being dismissive? *shrug* Would I get offended if they call themselves American? Not at all. Obviously, there are different types of Americans. It is what it is, is it not?

[Apocalipstic]

I think as long as mean we are American in an inclusive way, it's all good.

If we go to Uruguay, Norte Americano or Estados Unidense would be a better choice of what to call ourselves...

The USA does not contain the "only" Americans.

[Write14u]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

It is awkward, I get it. Our country has a long name which is also the name of a Continent (or 2 or 3 depending on your views...I like to think of us as one).

Actually I learned that the US were not the only Americans and it hurts people's feelings that we think that when I lived in South America....I wish I had come up with it on my own, but as a small child in Argentina I was constantly reminded that the entire continent is America and it is arrogant etc to call ourselves Americans.

Now what to call ourselves? It is awkward....we watched a WWII movie this weekend, and it was the British, the Japanese, the Canadians and the American's. The soldiers from the USA does seem awkward when everyone else has nice short names....and I totally get that for many people Yanks is derogatory (not for me, I could care less personally)

Maybe we say American because it's easiest?

I do try to make a point of saying US and USA when I can and wonder in what other ways I can be respectful to the fact that the US is not the only America.

I think we say American because it's who we have been taught we are. Not because it's easy, per se. Again, i don't think it's arrogant or exclusive unless we're saying the rest of the Americans shouldn't call themselves that.

And I was sincere in asking what Central/South Americans call themselves because no, I've never been there. I have been to Canada.
I think it's cool they call themselves Americans as well, since it's true.

I'm not arguing that at all. I just think it's a bit harsh to call people from the U.S. arrogant for using what they've been taught for at least two centuries. And not meaning to be dismissive, but it's not going to change. Lord knows we are slow to change on anything. I think it's simply about being respectful of everyone else as Americans, too.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Write14u

I think we say American because it's who we have been taught we are. Not because it's easy, per se. Again, i don't think it's arrogant or exclusive unless we're saying the rest of the Americans shouldn't call themselves that.

And I was sincere in asking what Central/South Americans call themselves because no, I've never been there. I have been to Canada.
I think it's cool they call themselves Americans as well, since it's true.

I'm not arguing that at all. I just think it's a bit harsh to call people from the U.S. arrogant for using what they've been taught for at least two centuries. And not meaning to be dismissive, but it's not going to change. Lord knows we are slow to change on anything. I think it's simply about being respectful of everyone else as Americans, too.

I agree I might have been strong in my wording, my appologies. I feel very passionately about this, having grown up in South America.

If I can get a few people to at least think about it and how arrogant it sounds for the US to always refer to ourselves as 'The Americans" then that is all I can ask for.

I understand that being sensitive to the other countries in the Americas is a new thing for many of us. We were taught in school that those countries are completely insignificant.

I hope you do get to travel to South and Central America sometime, I think you would so enjoy it and see more clearly what I am speaking of.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by June

Thank you! I just learned something new today!

I find it funny though, when Kate Smith was singing "God Bless America" she was singing for Canada and South America as well. I don't know why, it just struck my funny bone. Same thing with America the Beautiful. it also makes me feel warm and fuzzy for reasons I cannot identify.

Ha, I know.

It is something that we have all done forever, but it does upset people in the Americas outside the US, except for the Canadians according to one source .

Just something to think about.

[suebee]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYoTJItSPt0&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Tom Brokaw Explains Canada To Americans[/ame]

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by cybersuebee

YouTube- Tom Brokaw Explains Canada To Americans

personally I am waiting with some excitement to hear Tom explain my generation....the Boomers........to me..........laughin..........it's his new tv special..........

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by cybersuebee

YouTube- Tom Brokaw Explains Canada To Americans

What a great video!

My dream is that someday we come to have the same type of relationship with the rest of the Americas as we have with Canada.

We are not so different, we are all nations of Native Americans and immigrants and their offspring, rich with natural resources and beauty.

All of us...American.

Originally Posted by Toughy

personally I am waiting with some excitement to hear Tom explain my generation....the Boomers........to me..........laughin..........it's his new tv special..........

Meeee tooooooo!