Lesbian Butches - Coming home to ourselves....

[girl_dee]

I am not a butch but I am with one.

She is 100% butch and woman. She is what I feel so very comfortable with.We all have our place and journeys but for "me", I am most comfortable being with someone who is happy in her own skin, her own butch skin. She has no desire to be a "he" or transition, and I love that about her.

Yes lets hear it for the OS Butches, I love em!

[OS Butch]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

I am not a butch but I am with one.

She is 100% butch and woman. She is what I feel so very comfortable with.We all have our place and journeys but for "me", I am most comfortable being with someone who is happy in her own skin, her own butch skin. She has no desire to be a "he" or transition, and I love that about her.

Yes lets hear it for the OS Butches, I love em!

At the reunion someone thought the OS meant I was a computer geek, as in Operating System! LOL! It is nice to know we are appreciated

[Jett]

This is a subject very near and dear right now. Something of what I went through recently, if you can call a period of two years recent. Now I grew up with a high degree of "butch/masculine" tendencies, there is no doubt to that, it was a natural part of my life from day one, likes, dislikes, behaviors, mannerisms... a natural part of my personal progression, direction and growth, still is.

What's not natural, is the stuff you "learn" later, unwanted life events that change you and leave a bit of sludge each time they touch you, that build up and bog down your movement... and pretty soon you're lurching through life with all this crap you carry. It can be a personal trauma/s, or something you see or even when you're young it can be just a word/s, cuts just deep enough to leave a barely visible scar you didn't even see until much later when actually looking.

I think for me, this all kind of bubbled up slowly and I felt like I was in a constant struggle to define internally my gender "identity" for myself, reconcile the pieces that felt fragmented but every time I claimed the female/woman "piece" I literally cringed... pulled back and looked for "something" else, something that didn't make me cringe so much. Through the years, the conglomerate of directions I went with identity, spoke more accurately about who I was than any one days/years idea/feeling or paragraph. I'm very fluid, to that there is no doubt... so one day I had to ask myself- wtf am I doing? Why am I cringing? I didn't always feel this way, I had to look back to things, events in my life that occurred between who I was when I was proud and embraced of every part of me... and forward to who I had become... and exactly how I had learned to be ashamed and hide "it".

I really have no desire to talk right now about the particular events and things, only that I think it's sooo f*cking critical to living a happy, authentic life, that we r-e-a-l-l-y do examine ourselves, those cringes in particular, with a very critical eye. For myself it was a very long process, I desired strongly to experience and express what I knew I was strong and beautiful inside me but always did a smack-down when I felt that desire. You can't be doing that and be truly happy, you can't love yourself while you are simultaneously hating on parts of you. It's taken literally years... to let the little bits of those parts of me in one at a time, inside and outer things... one at a time... going forward slowly, even having to back up a bit at the end until I reached a place of balance and comfort.

I didn't take a different path then was meant for me, just a more difficult trek on that path when trying desperately to side step parts of it. I have deep regrets, I spent over 2 decades progressively stifling and hating on an amazing and beautiful part of myself, maybe the most beautiful complete part even. I feel like I missed so much that I didn't allow myself, moments, experiences... but quite honestly I can't blame myself... for me personally there's just no way until I'd moved far enough along to look back and see the whole picture. I am just extremely grateful I've reached this place of healing and have a new chance... I think many females/women of all types never do.

[rustedrims]

After reading the posts things came up in my memory of when i was a kid..Things i havent thought of in many-many years..I am going to get my thoughts together and i will be back in here..
My counselor told me a long time ago when something is bothering me write it down..I was seeing her because of my lifestyle and trouble with my girlfriend at the time..We can learn alot about ourselves from other people..Think this will bring back the memories of the lifestyle my mom was forcing me to live as a kid..Fought with her the whole time..Hated everything about it..!!!..Iwill be back..

s..

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

I am reading this thread again, and am almost crying. The words, the feelings, the thoughts, the mosaic being painted, are so very rich and beautiful.

I am a lesbian. I came out to the outside world at a late age (49), but always had an "inkling" that I was different somehow. Didn't feel right in my skin. Didn't feel that I could/should think/feel/BE.

I knew deep down, in my most private inside-voice, that I was drawn to the more butch-looking woman. Early on, when I was married and living a heterosexual-looking life, I was confused by those thoughts. I certainly didn't share them with anyone!

Later on, when I began my arduous journey to MY truth, those thoughts, those yearnings, for butch women made more sense, they became more "ok" to me, and I began to internally celebrate them, you know?

When I did come out, my partners were all butch LESBIANS. All women-identified. All masculine-mannered in looks and aura.

I got on the BFP site, and figured I was finally HOME. Someplace that I could learn to celebrate the femme-ness in me, and find my counterpoint, my yang (or ying).

Since then I have met many here, varied in their identifying. Yeah, I have even "crushed" on some. *grin* Some have been female-identifying butches, and some have been more male-ID'ing. I am still learning about the differences in the two. The thought that one could be actually FLUID in their ID'ing had never occurred to me either!

All I know is I want/need to find MY counterpoint when the time comes. I have settled all of my life, and cannot/will not again.

Bravo and kudos to all the butches on this site, for your bravery in finding and celebrating and claiming your own TRUTH, whatever that may be.

May we ALL come home to ourselves!

[Mel C.]

great thread. I'll be back when I have had more sleep

[dykeumentary]

*bump*

With Mickey or Minnie? this video about butch dykes in bathrooms:
http://youtu.be/q_58qgPqHqk

[dykeumentary]

Time for my annual post, apparently!

http://youtu.be/ky8tB-OSLzw

This one is a trailer for my new movie. It's about s butch dyke superhero (actually an action-figure of myself) who fights for accessibility justice.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Jett

This is a subject very near and dear right now. Something of what I went through recently, if you can call a period of two years recent. Now I grew up with a high degree of "butch/masculine" tendencies, there is no doubt to that, it was a natural part of my life from day one, likes, dislikes, behaviors, mannerisms... a natural part of my personal progression, direction and growth, still is.

What's not natural, is the stuff you "learn" later, unwanted life events that change you and leave a bit of sludge each time they touch you, that build up and bog down your movement... and pretty soon you're lurching through life with all this crap you carry. It can be a personal trauma/s, or something you see or even when you're young it can be just a word/s, cuts just deep enough to leave a barely visible scar you didn't even see until much later when actually looking.

I think for me, this all kind of bubbled up slowly and I felt like I was in a constant struggle to define internally my gender "identity" for myself, reconcile the pieces that felt fragmented but every time I claimed the female/woman "piece" I literally cringed... pulled back and looked for "something" else, something that didn't make me cringe so much. Through the years, the conglomerate of directions I went with identity, spoke more accurately about who I was than any one days/years idea/feeling or paragraph. I'm very fluid, to that there is no doubt... so one day I had to ask myself- wtf am I doing? Why am I cringing? I didn't always feel this way, I had to look back to things, events in my life that occurred between who I was when I was proud and embraced of every part of me... and forward to who I had become... and exactly how I had learned to be ashamed and hide "it".

I really have no desire to talk right now about the particular events and things, only that I think it's sooo f*cking critical to living a happy, authentic life, that we r-e-a-l-l-y do examine ourselves, those cringes in particular, with a very critical eye. For myself it was a very long process, I desired strongly to experience and express what I knew I was strong and beautiful inside me but always did a smack-down when I felt that desire. You can't be doing that and be truly happy, you can't love yourself while you are simultaneously hating on parts of you. It's taken literally years... to let the little bits of those parts of me in one at a time, inside and outer things... one at a time... going forward slowly, even having to back up a bit at the end until I reached a place of balance and comfort.

I didn't take a different path then was meant for me, just a more difficult trek on that path when trying desperately to side step parts of it. I have deep regrets, I spent over 2 decades progressively stifling and hating on an amazing and beautiful part of myself, maybe the most beautiful complete part even. I feel like I missed so much that I didn't allow myself, moments, experiences... but quite honestly I can't blame myself... for me personally there's just no way until I'd moved far enough along to look back and see the whole picture. I am just extremely grateful I've reached this place of healing and have a new chance... I think many females/women of all types never do.

And I am grateful for this post.

[JustBeingMe]

I haven't been online in a very long time, but Kobi, your thread just popped out there for me.....great thread to discuss things. I will definately have to remember to come back and post something before my visit with my family here in Austin is over. I have no internet where I live...... huge wine from me. LOL
Anyway, I think your thread here is a really good one. I always have enjoyed your posts Kobi, they have true meaning and depth to them.......keep keeping it real my friend.

[CharmingButch25]

I stumbled across this thread because I could'nt sleep and I am glad I did.
I currently am struggling with who exactly I am, I have always from a young age been more comfortable in boys clothing,having a boys haircut, from a small age of course my mom would force me into dresses and do my hair and all that fuss I HATE it with a passion. I didnt want to be a girly girl but at the same time I didnt want to be a boy. We would fight constantly about my hair or having to wear a dress. I knew from a very young age I was a lesbian that part I knew for sure but I didnt know exactly what that meant, I came out to my mom when I was 11 and when I was finally allowed to dress myself and decide how to cut my hair, I went with a military cut, my mom was devastated all my golden curls as she calls them were gone. I still keep my hair short and I am most comfortable in a pair of guys jeans and a hoodie. Nothing about me is femme,except part of my personality. I have always prefered being called Hy or Hym but I know I dont want to actually be a He or a Him. I get irratated when I get confused in womens bathrooms and actualy after a terrible event that happened in one I wont go in alone, I am too scared. I have always had the ultra femme sister who I feel my mom loved more than me, was happier with than she was me.Anyway I guess im kind of rambling. When On a date I do the gentleman thing and I get the doors for her, I pay, I do what society expects of a male on a date.And at first in all of my relationships I am the tough butch, the one she can turn to and know its all okay, but over a period of time , it kinda disapears and I dont know if its because of my illness but I start to need her more,she becomes the tough rock that I once was for her. Dont get me wrong at the end of the day she knows she will always find comfort in my strong arms... BUT so what does this leave me, A butch or a femme? I have always had to chose either one, and I go with butch because I feel thats who I AM inside. I havent worn a dress since I was 10 and was able to give it up, but i still have that need of a woman,the need to be comforted sometimes.I guess I will continue the struggle until I find out who I really am wheather it be butch or just a really manly femme, Any advice on how to figure this one out? My relationship started our very happy, me being the butch,her the femme and now she jokes (even though we broke up) she jokes that I was just not butch enough, that at first I pretended to be butch but it disapeard about 8 months in, (of course thats when I found out I was sick) but still she said I turned into the whinniest of femmes and thats not what she wanted, yet I still have the very butch domme daddy side, so where do I go next? How do I figure out WHO I AM? Any advice would be great and hope no one gets angry at this post I am not trying to upset anyone just find my place in this world....

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by CharmingButch25

I go with butch because I feel thats who I AM inside.

If you feel from within that you are butch, then you are butch.

No one can tell you any different and no one can take that away from you no matter what they say or how they try to belittle you.

I had an ex who would gush and gush about how very butch I was. Then when she was mad she would try to tell me I wasn't a "real butch." I looked her straight in the eye and told her, "I am butch and you can't take that away from me. No one can."

You can be a strong person (butches are not the only people who are strong) and still have the need or desire to be comforted from time to time. All people have this need.

You don't have to follow any stereotypes about butches do this and butches don't do that, and no one can tell you whether you are butch or "butch enough." No one. Only you can decide that.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by BullDog

If you feel from within that you are butch, then you are butch.

No one can tell you any different and no one can take that away from you no matter what they say or how they try to belittle you.

I had an ex who would gush and gush about how very butch I was. Then when she was mad she would try to tell me I wasn't a "real butch." I looked her straight in the eye and told her, "I am butch and you can't take that away from me. No one can."

You can be a strong person (butches are not the only people who are strong) and still have the need or desire to be comforted from time to time. All people have this need.

You don't have to follow any stereotypes about butches do this and butches don't do that, and no one can tell you whether you are butch or "butch enough." No one. Only you can decide that.

Everything you're saying makes so much sense, but my hunch is that you didn't learn these things overnight, that they are hard-won truths, and it's good you're sharing them.

[rustedrims]

I think you are looking in the wrong direction.
You are who you are and that is it.Dont try to change yourself because someone says different.Be comfortable with who you are.
My opinion is you are getting the wrong femme.You need a femme with more flexable thoughts.It just might be that you need to be with a soft butch?Maybe? I dont mean to offend you its just what i see.
There is nothing wrong with you.Be yourself.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by CharmingButch25

I stumbled across this thread because I could'nt sleep and I am glad I did.
I currently am struggling with who exactly I am, I have always from a young age been more comfortable in boys clothing,having a boys haircut, from a small age of course my mom would force me into dresses and do my hair and all that fuss I HATE it with a passion. I didnt want to be a girly girl but at the same time I didnt want to be a boy. We would fight constantly about my hair or having to wear a dress. I knew from a very young age I was a lesbian that part I knew for sure but I didnt know exactly what that meant, I came out to my mom when I was 11 and when I was finally allowed to dress myself and decide how to cut my hair, I went with a military cut, my mom was devastated all my golden curls as she calls them were gone. I still keep my hair short and I am most comfortable in a pair of guys jeans and a hoodie. Nothing about me is femme,except part of my personality. I have always prefered being called Hy or Hym but I know I dont want to actually be a He or a Him. I get irratated when I get confused in womens bathrooms and actualy after a terrible event that happened in one I wont go in alone, I am too scared. I have always had the ultra femme sister who I feel my mom loved more than me, was happier with than she was me.Anyway I guess im kind of rambling. When On a date I do the gentleman thing and I get the doors for her, I pay, I do what society expects of a male on a date.And at first in all of my relationships I am the tough butch, the one she can turn to and know its all okay, but over a period of time , it kinda disapears and I dont know if its because of my illness but I start to need her more,she becomes the tough rock that I once was for her. Dont get me wrong at the end of the day she knows she will always find comfort in my strong arms... BUT so what does this leave me, A butch or a femme? I have always had to chose either one, and I go with butch because I feel thats who I AM inside. I havent worn a dress since I was 10 and was able to give it up, but i still have that need of a woman,the need to be comforted sometimes.I guess I will continue the struggle until I find out who I really am wheather it be butch or just a really manly femme, Any advice on how to figure this one out? My relationship started our very happy, me being the butch,her the femme and now she jokes (even though we broke up) she jokes that I was just not butch enough, that at first I pretended to be butch but it disapeard about 8 months in, (of course thats when I found out I was sick) but still she said I turned into the whinniest of femmes and thats not what she wanted, yet I still have the very butch domme daddy side, so where do I go next? How do I figure out WHO I AM? Any advice would be great and hope no one gets angry at this post I am not trying to upset anyone just find my place in this world....

As Bulldog said so well, who you are inside, is who you are.

Your ex-girl-friend may have just become uncomfortable or scared about your illness. All of us are products of this sexist society! There is an expectation that bio men act like manly men (show no perceived weakness) and always be tough and strong.

I think lesbian/dyke butches, as well as transmen, have bought into this societal expectation. It is hard to escape it. It is on TV, movies and in books.

Women, including lesbian and queer femmes (and maybe even transwomen) also buy into the myth. Women may say they want a sensitive partner but when that partner shows some sensitivity or vulnerability, they just may not know how to deal with it (or they just do not want to deal with it).

All of this aside: you are who you are. Becoming ill, showing sensitivity or shedding some tears, does not change who you are. More than once I have read a post where a butch calls crying "my eyes were leaking", rather than admit to crying. Reading that always makes me want to cry, for feeling so sad for them to not allow themselves their humanness for fear others would think them not butch enough or because it did not fit with their own butch self-image.

You may indeed need to find a femme that accepts you with all of your butch and human attributes. It will never make you less of a butch to not be afraid to show all of you to another.

You feel butch? You are therefore, butch.

This is my perspective as a humanist lesbian femme.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by CharmingButch25

I guess I will continue the struggle until I find out who I really am wheather it be butch or just a really manly femme, Any advice on how to figure this one out?

Dear Charming Butch,

You're well on your way to figuring this one out, by talking about it, and asking yourself the questions that need to be asked—even though you're the only one who can answer them.

I can't tell you what to do, but I can share my experience.

I've learned to just trust my attraction. I go where it leads me. It's led me to transguys, butch lesbians, and when I was younger, it led me to bio-men. I don't question it or deny it.

I've been consistently attracted to butch lesbians for like 20 years now, and I adore them. But if I felt attracted to a transguy or a femme, I wouldn't deny it or feel shame, and to hell with anyone who didn't approve of my attraction.

So... relax my friend. I don't know who will attract you next, but you will know when you feel it. And it's a good feeling! Enjoy it.

Scout

[TimilDeeps]

I give kudos to what's already been said to you, CB. It really is a matter of who YOU think you are and ultimately want to be.

You can label yourself as gelatinous goo if you like, still, it's up to you to decide how that goo walks in the world. It is not the province of anyone else to define that for you. Ever. Although social mores love to crawl under our skin and make us question.

Be what you want, what you need, and desire . . . you'll attract the same–--someone who knows who they are and what they want.

And enjoy the journey, it's a fuckton of fun!

[Toughy]

<snip> but i still have that need of a woman,the need to be comforted sometimes.I guess I will continue the struggle until I find out who I really am wheather it be butch or just a really manly femme <snip>

I just picked this out as the crux of what I hear you saying....

The need to be comforted has absolutely nada, none, zip, nothing to do with your gender. The need to be comforted is a human need, not just a femme need or a woman need. It is absolutely also a butch need and a man need.

edited to add: In all the really long term relationships I know of................both individuals comforted the other when needed.........

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by CharmingButch25

When On a date I do the gentleman thing and I get the doors for her, I pay, I do what society expects of a male on a date.And at first in all of my relationships I am the tough butch, the one she can turn to and know its all okay, but over a period of time , it kinda disapears and I dont know if its because of my illness but I start to need her more,she becomes the tough rock that I once was for her. ... BUT so what does this leave me, A butch or a femme? I have always had to chose either one, and I go with butch because I feel thats who I AM inside. I havent worn a dress since I was 10 and was able to give it up, but i still have that need of a woman,the need to be comforted sometimes.I guess I will continue the struggle until I find out who I really am wheather it be butch or just a really manly femme,... she jokes that I was just not butch enough, that at first I pretended to be butch but it disapeard about 8 months in, (of course thats when I found out I was sick) but still she said I turned into the whinniest of femmes and thats not what she wanted,....

Sorry to cut up your post, but I wanted to address the heart of your question, which is whether it's OK to call yourself a butch even though you want and need comfort and support from your partner. I am SO SORRY that you've been given the message that being properly masculine means cutting yourself off from your own human needs. I agree with Toughy and the rest of the posters here. Being butch has nothing to do with not needing comfort, and fuck-all to do with being the "tough rock".

I am SO SORRY that you've absorbed the message that being soft or needing support makes you a woman/femme, and that you can't be a butch if you require nurturing. I'm equally sorry that you believe that butch can't equal woman. Most butches do ID as women. It's OK for you to be a woman who is butch.

I am SO SORRY that you've been made to believe that needing nurturing makes you a manly femme, and means that you are no longer a proper butch. It's astonishing that needing comfort would cause someone to tell you that you're really "the whinniest of femmes". It's really f**ed up that your ex would have given you that message. It's insulting to you, and really insulting to femmes. I hope you can shut her voice out of your head, and I hope you can shut her down if she tears you down by suggesting that to you again in person.

[Licious]

Just came across this thread. Very interesting reading. *subscribes*