Lesbian bed death?

[Lynn]

This happened to me in my first lesbian relationship, in the first couple of years after I came out. I lost any interest in sex with her or with anyone. I felt disconnected from my own body, too. I remember bringing it up in therapy, and the therapist gave me all these things to try to re-ignite my physical reactions (involving soap, lotion, and showers...). None of it interested me at all. At the same time, I was going through a very contentious and painful coming out process with my family. So, as I've looked at it over the years, I'd say I was depressed. Depression will do that to a person--squash their sex drive.

I had a similar response when I was married to my (bio-male) husband. I could see then that I was depressed, also. I had a bit more insight and self-awareness, as well as some understanding of his feelings, so we did have sex, but it wasn't out of physical desire on my part.

Now, I view sex as a very important aspect of my relationship. If someone lost interest in me, I would want to try to figure it out and resolve it. But, there are factors such as depression, medication, health, stress...and on and on which can impact desire. I wouldn't leave someone because we weren't having sex, but I'd want to understand what was going on and try to fix it, if possible.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Lynn

This happened to me in my first lesbian relationship, in the first couple of years after I came out. I lost any interest in sex with her or with anyone. I felt disconnected from my own body, too. I remember bringing it up in therapy, and the therapist gave me all these things to try to re-ignite my physical reactions (involving soap, lotion, and showers...). None of it interested me at all. At the same time, I was going through a very contentious and painful coming out process with my family. So, as I've looked at it over the years, I'd say I was depressed. Depression will do that to a person--squash their sex drive.

I had a similar response when I was married to my (bio-male) husband. I could see then that I was depressed, also. I had a bit more insight and self-awareness, as well as some understanding of his feelings, so we did have sex, but it wasn't out of physical desire on my part.

Now, I view sex as a very important aspect of my relationship. If someone lost interest in me, I would want to try to figure it out and resolve it. But, there are factors such as depression, medication, health, stress...and on and on which can impact desire. I wouldn't leave someone because we weren't having sex, but I'd want to understand what was going on and try to fix it, if possible.

Thank you Lynn...for sharing your experience and also bringing up something for me that's been running through my head since Corkey posted.

I can completely see how depression can squash the sex drive. The twist for me is that the lack of sex can trigger depression, igniting a vicious emotional circle for me.

A bit of overshare here, perhaps, but...as a kid, I grew up with very strong messages that I was not wanted, was an inconvenience and then some, and that I was only as good as what I provided or produced. My mother delighted in telling stories of how she thought I was retarded (which can happen when you never speak to your very shy but bright child), and how she had contemplated killing us (my sister and I) and then herself on several occasions....except that she didn't really want to kill herself and didn't want to go to prison.

Fast forward through many destructive relationships with narcissists, a total hitting bottom episode in my life, and years of counseling, journaling, crying and processing...and I'm much better. I know my worth. Life is good.

Except...if I love someone, and they close down on me sexually, the spark is gone when they look at me....then I have to struggle mightily not to flip hard into those old feelings.

I totally get what you and Corkey are saying...and what citybutch said about life's pressures intervening...but for me I need to feel valued, desired and treasured for who I am...not for what I do or provide. You can tell me that I'm a wonderful mother, a good cook, a hard worker, etc. and I will thank you. I appreciate that. But I know those things about myself too. What I need from my partner is that glint in their eye that says they want me....just me...and that they want to connect in that special and intense way that sexuality provides.

If the person I love is struggling with depression or medical issues or whatever that drains their desire, then I will hang in and work with them as long as I am able, and as long as they are trying. But, again just for me, to hang in for years with someone who does not desire me and who isn't trying to fix it (speaking only from my own experience now), then I know that's an incredibly destructive emotional place for me to be and....because I now care about myself too...I need to leave.

[Kobi]

Thanks to those who have, are and will be sharing their experiences.
It is much easier to strut our stuff and bask in our prowess than to
discuss the less pleasant side of things.

For me, there seems to be a distinct connection between my
emotions and my sexuality. If I am not feeling good about me,
the other, or us, it will show first in the bedroom.

Medications and certain illnesses affecting sexual response have
also been my experience.

Communication is essential regardless of the cause if one expects to muddle
thru to the other side. Whether it is dealing with interpersonal stuff, dealing
with self stuff, exploring new ways to evoke response - which is kind of fun-
or gappling with the demise of a relationship, both parties have to be willing
to put forth the effort to work it out.

Feeling desired or desiring is a very powerful motivator. Sometimes we lose our
way until we see that sparkle in another eyes or feel that electricity in anothers
touch again.

[citybutch]

And my point DapperButch is that it just isn't true that gay men in long term relationships (which is presumably where Bed Death occurs.. long term relationships) have sex more frequently than lesbians... The studies show that as does my personal experience... In fact, we have friends that are gay and male and they don't have sex at all after many years together (they are the only ones we have actually HAD this discussion with but I suspect it to be true for our other long term relationship friends (and by long term I don't mean 3 years)... My wife and I do have sex in our 12th year of our life together... My point IS... that a withdrawal from sexual activity is universal.. unless there is a concentration on keeping intimacy alive. SO... if we are to have a conversation about Bed Death.. let's discuss it not in terms of a hierarchy of WHO has sex more... and quoting a study that has been debunked. Let's talk about it as the OP intended... What is it and why does it happen?...

Originally Posted by DapperButch

P.S. to CityButch, just to clarify. #2 states gay men have more sex than lesbians. I did not say anything about men having longer lasting sexual relationships, I only spoke to what types of couplings were having the most sex.

[DapperButch]

<deleted post so as not to derail>

I will PM my response to citybutch

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

P.S. to CityButch, just to clarify.

#2 states gay men have more sex than lesbians. I did not say anything about men having longer lasting sexual relationships, I only spoke to what types of couplings were having the most sex.

P.S. To clarify what others may have thought I said:
1)I said nothing about gay male's relationships regarding monogamy.

I am kind of curious myself about the gay male's relationship re. monogamy. I hesitated posting anything because I do NOT want to look as if I am making assumptions or generalizations BUT I guess I am going to take that chance now.

I have a very dear friend who is a gay man and he has sex more than most people I know. But, he is having sex with more than one, or even two, partners at any given time. I am not sure if this is indicative or not-I only have the one friend.

However, if it does (even partially) reflect with any accuracy, then surely this would explain WHY the male/male couple is reported to have sex with greater frequency than the female/female couple.

Personally, I have an extremely high sex drive & try to date women who match that. I have dated a woman in the past who had almost zero (like less than once a month) sex drive and if her abusiveness has ended things, the sex issue may have. However, she would not see to my sexual needs and got angry if I wanted to tend to my them myself.

I like to think thought, that if my relationship was good in every way except sex, I would be ok.

Thanks for starting this thread, it has given me insight and information about a subject of which I was previously unfamiliar.

[Quintease]

Originally Posted by LaneyDoll

I have an extremely high sex drive & try to date women who match that. I have dated a woman in the past who had almost zero (like less than once a month) sex drive and if her abusiveness has ended things, the sex issue may have. However, she would not see to my sexual needs and got angry if I wanted to tend to my them myself.

I like to think thought, that if my relationship was good in every way except sex, I would be ok.

I had a very similar experience, except my ex gf's libido was originally high and then dropped to nothing. For me it was the last straw, I was unhappy AND I wasn't getting sex. I have had a good relationship end due to LBD as well, as she wouldn't talk about it, wasn't interested in fixing it and didn't seem to care about my frustration. By the time we started having sex again the damage to our relationship was irreparable.

[JAGG]

Can't say I ever experienced lesbian bed death. Never heard of it until this thread actually.

[AtLast]

Although hetero skewed, this new book has some interesting things to think about just in terms of sex and couple-


Marriage Confidential: The Post-Romantic Age of Workhorse Wives, Royal Children, Undersexed Spouses, and Rebel Couples Who Are Rewriting the Rules- Pamala Haag.

Also, with the new census stats out about "marriage" declining to under 50% in the US- it has some significance.

No, I don't buy all of her hypotheses.

[Gráinne]

Can't say I've experienced it either, but that's because I haven't been in a long term relationship with a woman. With my former husband-yeah, that part died pretty much from go (gee, I wonder why??). Somehow we managed to have our beautiful children. It was the same with any other relationship with a man.

I'm here to tell you that given a healthy relationship out of bed, and my depression under control, I'm rarin' to go! I think I too would have to date someone with an extremely healthy libido, or else we just wouldn't be compatible in that way. I spent eight years in a sexless marriage, and I'm not wasting any more time, so to speak.

No one's mentioned menopause and its changes and effects on the sex drive, but thus far I haven't noticed much, personally. That's another reason it's so important to take care of ourselves and our bodies as we get into midlife. The day I stop having sex, or feeling sensual with myself, is the day I call it a life.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by guihong

Can't say I've experienced it either, but that's because I haven't been in a long term relationship with a woman. With my former husband-yeah, that part died pretty much from go (gee, I wonder why??). Somehow we managed to have our beautiful children. It was the same with any other relationship with a man.

I'm here to tell you that given a healthy relationship out of bed, and my depression under control, I'm rarin' to go! I think I too would have to date someone with an extremely healthy libido, or else we just wouldn't be compatible in that way. I spent eight years in a sexless marriage, and I'm not wasting any more time, so to speak.

No one's mentioned menopause and its changes and effects on the sex drive, but thus far I haven't noticed much, personally. That's another reason it's so important to take care of ourselves and our bodies as we get into midlife. The day I stop having sex, or feeling sensual with myself, is the day I call it a life.

Yes, menopause has an effect on libido. And there are many ways to treat this. It isn't the end of the world. in fact, it can be the start of a whole new sexual adventure. To me, quality out ranks quantity- and always has.

Something that I feel is lacking in this conversation is the role of sensuality (glad you used the term). To be honest, even in the heat and zealousness of my early life over flowing hormone levels, sex without sensuality led to simply not caring for sex with a partner- which is very different than losing my libido. Sexual compatibility is paramount (is for me, anyway).

Disability issues can play a role here, too. Medications as well and some illnesses. Again, there are ways to deal with these things and reach a whole new level of satisfaction as well as desire. Something else that I know we don't like to talk about is the fact that for some, physical changes in a partner can and do impact our sexual desire for them along with the obvious emotional/psychological changes that can occur in a partner. Often, our own guilt about feeling turned-off with some of these changes adds to the stress and tension around our sexual dilemmas. A lover slacking off with personal care and hygiene can put stops on sexual desire. This is just a very complicated area (and highly sensitive)- and I don't think there are quick fixes or simple defining constructs.

The Goddesses only know that demands and stresses of daily life and busy lives has an impact on this, too. This is why setting aside "date nights" or mini-vacations, etc. are important for couples in LTRs.



I am a person that has always enjoyed and desired sex (especially with sensuality involved) at high levels- even post menopausal (although I have felt some change), yet, if the emotional interaction off, I am not going there. This has always been so. It is about the relational fields between myself and a lover. Some people do not operate this way- and this isn't divided along gender lines.

Something I found almost amusing while practicing as a therapist (I did quite a bit of couples work) was that there is a big disparity with how many individuals believe they have a high or very active libido when most fit right into the “norm.” A lot of ego involvement going on and misperception. Most people have no idea of what research bears out concerning libido and that can be hurtful for themselves and their partners.

Just enjoy…. And if something goes amiss, do something about it- together! Hell, just sharing that something is off with your partner and talking about what to do about it, jump starts a lot!!

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by guihong

... No one's mentioned menopause and its changes and effects on the sex drive, but thus far I haven't noticed much, personally. That's another reason it's so important to take care of ourselves and our bodies as we get into midlife. The day I stop having sex, or feeling sensual with myself, is the day I call it a life.

quihong, I hope it's okay that I excerpt only this part of your post:

Like you and some others here, I cannot say that I have experienced a diminished sex drive over the course of my lifetime. Even with exiting a perio-menopause state: which, technically, if how I understand menopause, it's the state of being that follows the perio-menopause state.

What I was going to say is that for me, even now, my sex drive feels like it always has - I have strong libido, even after going through a very tough, albeit short, perio-menopause state. I think my time was shorter than most maybe because my active menses state began when I was very young (right after I turned 9 years old) with my active menses years extending to when I turned 50. It's just been lately, since summer, that I have been free of my active menses state. Even when I entered into an perio-menopause trajectory, which was the worst ever time of my life (a menses cycle that lasted longer than 8 weeks, then disappeared for several months), my sex drive raged more.

Sometimes, when it comes to diminished sex drives, I have to wonder whether there are other elements that come into play (health issues, for example) or even unresolved relationship/communication issues, because I have to agree with you and others (take Jo's post, for example), that for me too, I think my sex drive would falter if there were unresolved issues or communication barriers impeding upon a person's sex drive... I do believe my sex drive is spark driven.

For the most part, I'm terribly grateful that I feel sparkly (sparky) and that my sex drive seems to be in tact; especially since my own experience with having made it past the perio-menopausal state.

[puddin']

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

quihong, I hope it's okay that I excerpt only this part of your post:

Like you and some others here, I cannot say that I have experienced a diminished sex drive over the course of my lifetime. Even with exiting a perio-menopause state: which, technically, if how I understand menopause, it's the state of being that follows the perio-menopause state.

What I was going to say is that for me, even now, my sex drive feels like it always has - I have strong libido, even after going through a very tough, albeit short, perio-menopause state. I think my time was shorter than most maybe because my active menses state began when I was very young (right after I turned 9 years old) with my active menses years extending to when I turned 50. It's just been lately, since summer, that I have been free of my active menses state. Even when I entered into an perio-menopause trajectory, which was the worst ever time of my life (a menses cycle that lasted longer than 8 weeks, then disappeared for several months), my sex drive raged more.

Sometimes, when it comes to diminished sex drives, I have to wonder whether there are other elements that come into play (health issues, for example) or even unresolved relationship/communication issues, because I have to agree with you and others (take Jo's post, for example), that for me too, I think my sex drive would falter if there were unresolved issues or communication barriers impeding upon a person's sex drive... I do believe my sex drive is spark driven.

For the most part, I'm terribly grateful that I feel sparkly (sparky) and that my sex drive seems to be in tact; especially since my own experience with having made it past the perio-menopausal state.

i second dis emotion...

[FlowerFem]

For me I think after the newness wears off, the way they act and react to daily events has a big impact on how turned on I am. Inconsiderate, or too negative, over-reacting whiny, those are turn offs. It is hard to want intimacy watching someone behaving poorly.

[The cute widdle wesbian]

I've been through this a bit, but honestly I try hard to stay out of relationships where she doesn't want sex. I've gotta rediculously extreme sex drive, it's high and wild and always very easily woken. I'm the active volcano, I don't get along well with the dormant one, it just doesn't mesh. Sex is as much a part of a happy relationship as comunication and intimacy, affection and respect, etc etc. I need to be with someone who's sexual desire is as strong as mine, or I can get pretty irritating. lol, so that said now, my bed is pretty much never dead. If we're not sexin we're lovin in another way, I'm an extremely touchy person with a need for affection, I love to cuttle up and kiss and touch and rub and kitzle till we're both fast asleep in each other's arms. That's how I am, that's how I've always been. My vision is as sucky as it could be, so I'm used to touching everything rather than just looking at it. That's why every inch of my skin is 10 times more sensitive to touch, and my sex drive is through the roof.

Lesbian bed death happens a lot though because honestly, it's science. Most (not all) women are naturally sexually passive, meaning that the male initiates sexual activity. It's the animal instinct in us that we must ignore. Take that and add the PMS/overreacting that comes naturally to us gals and you've got death in the bed. Don't kill the messenger, I ain't makin this junk up. I don't like it, but it happens to all of us. Sometimes even I feel like I can't go get some because I'm feeling "weird" that night. It's a girl thing, we don't have the hormones that men have in order to make us just ready all the time. That's a total generalization, and not all women are that way, but this whole forum is general. I don't know all of your sexlives and individual drives, but again, to kill the messenger wouldn't be nice, It would make me oh so sad. Heheh

[blush]

Originally Posted by The cute widdle wesbian

I've been through this a bit, but honestly I try hard to stay out of relationships where she doesn't want sex. I've gotta rediculously extreme sex drive, it's high and wild and always very easily woken. I'm the active volcano, I don't get along well with the dormant one, it just doesn't mesh. Sex is as much a part of a happy relationship as comunication and intimacy, affection and respect, etc etc. I need to be with someone who's sexual desire is as strong as mine, or I can get pretty irritating. lol, so that said now, my bed is pretty much never dead. If we're not sexin we're lovin in another way, I'm an extremely touchy person with a need for affection, I love to cuttle up and kiss and touch and rub and kitzle till we're both fast asleep in each other's arms. That's how I am, that's how I've always been. My vision is as sucky as it could be, so I'm used to touching everything rather than just looking at it. That's why every inch of my skin is 10 times more sensitive to touch, and my sex drive is through the roof.

Lesbian bed death happens a lot though because honestly, it's science. Most (not all) women are naturally sexually passive, meaning that the male initiates sexual activity. It's the animal instinct in us that we must ignore. Take that and add the PMS/overreacting that comes naturally to us gals and you've got death in the bed. Don't kill the messenger, I ain't makin this junk up. I don't like it, but it happens to all of us. Sometimes even I feel like I can't go get some because I'm feeling "weird" that night. It's a girl thing, we don't have the hormones that men have in order to make us just ready all the time. That's a total generalization, and not all women are that way, but this whole forum is general. I don't know all of your sexlives and individual drives, but again, to kill the messenger wouldn't be nice, It would make me oh so sad. Heheh

I bolded the part I'm most curious about. Could you explain what you mean? It sounds like you actually believe that women are wired to be sexually passive and hysterical creatures?

[The cute widdle wesbian]

They are wired that way, in a sense, it's all in the science of the body. I read a little about the "gay sheep" comunity and did some research, and the reason that lesbian sheep are nearly nonexistant (or invisible) is because their natural sexual instinct and duty is to stand still when they're ready to mate. There's not many female sheep who would willingly mount another sheep, it happens but it's extremely rare. If you wanna look at it from that point of view, femail animals (including humans) are "wired" to be gotten, not to go get. That's how women were brought up for all of history before, and only recently have we started raising our girls as free as our boys.

Now I'm gonna get away from our natural chemicle reactions and hormones and such because we're humans and unlike sheep, we have minds that work. We "mount" each other all the time, we have healthy and active sexlives, and we're happy and visible. But on some level, our animal instincts as females (in other words: passive sexual mates) kick in. It's all science, I hate science and I'm a rebel in how I don't let that get in the way of my sex drive, that's what a lot of lesbians do.

[Dude]

Originally Posted by The cute widdle wesbian

. There's not many female sheep who would willingly mount another sheep, it happens but it's extremely rare. .

perhaps that's not their thing
maybe they prefer oral


Thinking about these two sow's I used
to work with who were madly in love and humped each other quite often.
They were forced to breed but would refuse to feed
their babies unless they were together staring lovingly into
each other's eyes.

oh wait
this isnt an animal thread?

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by The cute widdle wesbian

They are wired that way, in a sense, it's all in the science of the body. I read a little about the "gay sheep" comunity and did some research, and the reason that lesbian sheep are nearly nonexistant (or invisible) is because their natural sexual instinct and duty is to stand still when they're ready to mate. There's not many female sheep who would willingly mount another sheep, it happens but it's extremely rare. If you wanna look at it from that point of view, femail animals (including humans) are "wired" to be gotten, not to go get. That's how women were brought up for all of history before, and only recently have we started raising our girls as free as our boys.

Now I'm gonna get away from our natural chemicle reactions and hormones and such because we're humans and unlike sheep, we have minds that work. We "mount" each other all the time, we have healthy and active sexlives, and we're happy and visible. But on some level, our animal instincts as females (in other words: passive sexual mates) kick in. It's all science, I hate science and I'm a rebel in how I don't let that get in the way of my sex drive, that's what a lot of lesbians do.

I can't begin to count all the ways in which this post is offensive. You state alleged facts about animals as if they have something to do with how women respond sexually, and the things you wrote aren't even facts. Have you been reading 1950s psuedo-science?

I'm going to walk away from this before I start ranting, and leave the reasoning to someone with more patience.

[blush]

Originally Posted by The cute widdle wesbian

They are wired that way, in a sense, it's all in the science of the body. I read a little about the "gay sheep" comunity and did some research, and the reason that lesbian sheep are nearly nonexistant (or invisible) is because their natural sexual instinct and duty is to stand still when they're ready to mate. There's not many female sheep who would willingly mount another sheep, it happens but it's extremely rare. If you wanna look at it from that point of view, femail animals (including humans) are "wired" to be gotten, not to go get. That's how women were brought up for all of history before, and only recently have we started raising our girls as free as our boys.

Now I'm gonna get away from our natural chemicle reactions and hormones and such because we're humans and unlike sheep, we have minds that work. We "mount" each other all the time, we have healthy and active sexlives, and we're happy and visible. But on some level, our animal instincts as females (in other words: passive sexual mates) kick in. It's all science, I hate science and I'm a rebel in how I don't let that get in the way of my sex drive, that's what a lot of lesbians do.

Well, while it is true that many quadrapedal farm animals stand still to mate, many other animals don't. Many females advertise when they are fertile(ever seen a cat in heat?). Humans and bonobos are the only animals that mate "out of season." And it goes on and on...the animal kingdom has a million different permutations on sexing it up.

I still don't understand how women are wired to be "gotten?"