Feminism: A Multi-Wave Social Movement - Page 2

Nat · 11-06-2010, 01:53 PM

I'm not nearly schooled enough in the schools of feminism, but I actually think of second wave as being more anti-feminine than the third wave. I don't think of the second-wave as being man-hating as much as I think of the second wave as being, "no heterosexual sex is consensual in a patriarchy" and "makeup is an apology for your face." Which feminists are these? I think of the third wave as being more "it's okay to like to fuck and wear makeup and knit if you wanna." I know I need to read up. But I'm tired and I have adhd.

AtLast · 11-06-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat

I'm not nearly schooled enough in the schools of feminism, but I actually think of second wave as being more anti-feminine than the third wave. I don't think of the second-wave as being man-hating as much as I think of the second wave as being, "no heterosexual sex is consensual in a patriarchy" and "makeup is an apology for your face." Which feminists are these? I think of the third wave as being more "it's okay to like to fuck and wear makeup and knit if you wanna." I know I need to read up. But I'm tired and I have adhd.

LOL!

Ummm... one thing I have learned is that part of the problem around feminist ideology is that most people don't do research and I mean going back to even the suffragist era (not just in the US).

All of the history and all of the differing schools along with what goes on in the actual social movements is really multi-dimensional. For me, my job is to keep up with today’s thought and not remain in the past as a feminist.

So, I guess all ages have to do some work! It is an ever evolving theory that is reflective of time eras- which it should be! Women (and men along gender variables) of today have all kinds of things to say that is relevant to what they are dealing with today!

There are many theorists of today advancing new thought, especially women of color.

AtLast · 11-09-2010, 06:10 PM

I just responded to a rep in another thread discussion dealing with gender identity and various issues that seem to divide many of us- It struck me that my thoughts are very much related to this thread.

I wonder what other women of the Second Wave time era might be thinking and feeling about their age and life's experience now and how age might play into where we are now?

Here is what I wrote- feel free to comment.

Maybe it is because aging really does bring about a need to not only explore, but re-explore that I just don't have some of the rigidity of thinking as I once did. And I do see some weird facet of those of us from the era of the Second Wave get stuck in the fear of not continuing to be recognized as feminists. Crazy, as feminism is predicated on fluid thought and needs every new era of consciousness to be explored.

Heart · 08-21-2011, 10:45 AM

Three super important new feminist books, all reviewed by the Women's Review of Books:

"At the Dark End of the Street: Black Women, Rape, and Resistance: A New History of the Civil Rights Movement" By Nancy Gertner

"Hands on the Freedom Plow: Personal Accounts by Women in SNCC"
Edited By Faith S. Holsaert, et al

"Radical Hotness, Lady Dicks and Lesbian Brothers: Staging the Unimaginable at the WOW Café Theatre"
By Kate Davy

Kobi · 08-21-2011, 11:18 AM

I never knew this thread existed. I am appreciating the thoughts and the resources it is providing.

Trying to get back up to speed with is happening and has happened in an awesome task.

I am reading "Full Frontal Feminism - a young womans guide to why feminism matters" by Jessica Valenti.

And "Click. When we knew we were feminists" edited by Courtney Martin and J Courtney Sullivan.

Both brought me to feministing.com and ifeminist.com. This is so cool!

AtLast · 08-21-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heart

Three super important new feminist books, all reviewed by the Women's Review of Books:

"At the Dark End of the Street: Black Women, Rape, and Resistance: A New History of the Civil Rights Movement" By Nancy Gertner

"Hands on the Freedom Plow: Personal Accounts by Women in SNCC"
Edited By Faith S. Holsaert, et al

"Radical Hotness, Lady Dicks and Lesbian Brothers: Staging the Unimaginable at the WOW Café Theatre"
By Kate Davy

Thanks, Heart- you bet I am getting these.

Kobi · 04-12-2012, 10:54 AM

It's hard to come up with much better evidence for the taboo around criticizing the oppressive nature of competitive mommy devotion than Janice D'Arcy's review of French feminist Elisabeth Badinter's new book The Conflict: How Modern Motherhood Undermines the Status of Women. D'Arcy takes it as a given that there's a protective shield around time-intensive parenting practices to keep anyone from observing out loud that it's antithetical to feminism to demand such high levels of self-abnegation from women. She fears that anyone who breaches the taboo around pointing this out can expect to face a sea of angry people hellbent on silencing the errant observer. As I recently learned when arguing that the promotion of placenta-eating demotes new mothers to four-legged animals, these angry critics don't really have an argument, but simply believe it's out of line for a woman to criticize another's "choices." The problem is that said choices are usually made on pain of being considered bad, unnatural mothers if you opt out of them and choose to keep a bit of your life and body for yourself. I don't know if Badinter mentions placenta-eating in her new book, but I'd really love to hear her thoughts on it.

I'm really glad someone has written this book, even though I expect it to be rejected by people who believe labeling a behavior a "choice" exempts it from analysis or criticism. I suppose it could be a coincidence that lengthy breast-feeding and attachment parenting that interferes heavily with maintaining a career came into style right as it became passé to pressure women to downplay their ambitions for the sake of men, but it just seems highly unlikely. One thing I do know is that the more conservative women of my acquaintance don't feel the same pressure to breast-feed until their kids are talking or to keep their kids by their side at all times, even bedtime. It seems that if you live in social circles where it's simply expected that you curtail your professional ambitions and do most of the domestic work so as to avoid emasculating your husband, the psychic need to create elaborate parenting theories to achieve the same result—woman at home, tied to the kitchen—simply vanishes. Strange coincidence, indeed.

No one should have expected the path to true domestic equality for women to be an easy one. The notion that being female means self-sacrifice and always putting someone else's needs before your own isn't going to be something we can shrug off in a generation after centuries of reinforcement. In retrospect, it should have been predictable that once it became politically incorrect to expect women to give up their independence for men, children would be the next category of people whose neediness trumps women's desires for self-actualization. The feminine mystique is probably going to morph a number of times before feminism can finally kill it off.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...mbitions_.html

------------------

Is anyone familiar with this book? Or this author? Have too much going on to research it at the moment. Was wondering if it is worth looking into or a rehash of prior stuff.

Tuff Stuff · 08-27-2015, 05:39 PM

I'm a Feminist and proud of it...I support all other Feminist..but don't constantly man bash,that's extreme.I mean by man bash its blaming the bio-male race for all our problems.I really don't like anything extreme,but I do know the truth has to be told straight out sometimes,and it can hurt feelings or prides *shrugs*...so being extreme has its good points,to.I do my part in the real world by telling men off when they become disrespectful around me or other bio-females...and to tell you the truth I really don't like that word female,I would prefer to be called a woman.

I'm sure i have more to say on the subject..some good infor,thanks.

11-06-2010, 01:53 PM	#21
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender Preferred Pronoun?: whatevs Relationship Status: in a relationship Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tx Posts: 3,535 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,042 Thanked 13,992 Times in 2,595 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	I'm not nearly schooled enough in the schools of feminism, but I actually think of second wave as being more anti-feminine than the third wave. I don't think of the second-wave as being man-hating as much as I think of the second wave as being, "no heterosexual sex is consensual in a patriarchy" and "makeup is an apology for your face." Which feminists are these? I think of the third wave as being more "it's okay to like to fuck and wear makeup and knit if you wanna." I know I need to read up. But I'm tired and I have adhd. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

04-12-2012, 10:54 AM	#27
Kobi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status: Happy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic. Posts: 9,234 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,840 Thanked 34,661 Times in 7,652 Posts Rep Power: 21474860	A French Feminist Fights the New Feminine Mystique It's hard to come up with much better evidence for the taboo around criticizing the oppressive nature of competitive mommy devotion than Janice D'Arcy's review of French feminist Elisabeth Badinter's new book The Conflict: How Modern Motherhood Undermines the Status of Women. D'Arcy takes it as a given that there's a protective shield around time-intensive parenting practices to keep anyone from observing out loud that it's antithetical to feminism to demand such high levels of self-abnegation from women. She fears that anyone who breaches the taboo around pointing this out can expect to face a sea of angry people hellbent on silencing the errant observer. As I recently learned when arguing that the promotion of placenta-eating demotes new mothers to four-legged animals, these angry critics don't really have an argument, but simply believe it's out of line for a woman to criticize another's "choices." The problem is that said choices are usually made on pain of being considered bad, unnatural mothers if you opt out of them and choose to keep a bit of your life and body for yourself. I don't know if Badinter mentions placenta-eating in her new book, but I'd really love to hear her thoughts on it. I'm really glad someone has written this book, even though I expect it to be rejected by people who believe labeling a behavior a "choice" exempts it from analysis or criticism. I suppose it could be a coincidence that lengthy breast-feeding and attachment parenting that interferes heavily with maintaining a career came into style right as it became passé to pressure women to downplay their ambitions for the sake of men, but it just seems highly unlikely. One thing I do know is that the more conservative women of my acquaintance don't feel the same pressure to breast-feed until their kids are talking or to keep their kids by their side at all times, even bedtime. It seems that if you live in social circles where it's simply expected that you curtail your professional ambitions and do most of the domestic work so as to avoid emasculating your husband, the psychic need to create elaborate parenting theories to achieve the same result—woman at home, tied to the kitchen—simply vanishes. Strange coincidence, indeed. No one should have expected the path to true domestic equality for women to be an easy one. The notion that being female means self-sacrifice and always putting someone else's needs before your own isn't going to be something we can shrug off in a generation after centuries of reinforcement. In retrospect, it should have been predictable that once it became politically incorrect to expect women to give up their independence for men, children would be the next category of people whose neediness trumps women's desires for self-actualization. The feminine mystique is probably going to morph a number of times before feminism can finally kill it off. http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...mbitions_.html ------------------ Is anyone familiar with this book? Or this author? Have too much going on to research it at the moment. Was wondering if it is worth looking into or a rehash of prior stuff. __________________

08-27-2015, 05:39 PM	#28
Tuff Stuff Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Woman Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Married Join Date: May 2013 Location: California Posts: 695 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 904 Thanked 1,318 Times in 506 Posts Rep Power: 9408452	Interesting read I'm a Feminist and proud of it...I support all other Feminist..but don't constantly man bash,that's extreme.I mean by man bash its blaming the bio-male race for all our problems.I really don't like anything extreme,but I do know the truth has to be told straight out sometimes,and it can hurt feelings or prides shrugs...so being extreme has its good points,to.I do my part in the real world by telling men off when they become disrespectful around me or other bio-females...and to tell you the truth I really don't like that word female,I would prefer to be called a woman. I'm sure i have more to say on the subject..some good infor,thanks.

11-09-2010, 06:10 PM	#23
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,830 Times in 3,200 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	I just responded to a rep in another thread discussion dealing with gender identity and various issues that seem to divide many of us- It struck me that my thoughts are very much related to this thread. I wonder what other women of the Second Wave time era might be thinking and feeling about their age and life's experience now and how age might play into where we are now? Here is what I wrote- feel free to comment. Maybe it is because aging really does bring about a need to not only explore, but re-explore that I just don't have some of the rigidity of thinking as I once did. And I do see some weird facet of those of us from the era of the Second Wave get stuck in the fear of not continuing to be recognized as feminists. Crazy, as feminism is predicated on fluid thought and needs every new era of consciousness to be explored.

08-21-2011, 10:45 AM	#24
Heart Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Relationship Status: rainbows! Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NY Posts: 466 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 303 Thanked 2,531 Times in 412 Posts Rep Power: 12032609	Three super important new feminist books, all reviewed by the Women's Review of Books: "At the Dark End of the Street: Black Women, Rape, and Resistance: A New History of the Civil Rights Movement" By Nancy Gertner "Hands on the Freedom Plow: Personal Accounts by Women in SNCC" Edited By Faith S. Holsaert, et al "Radical Hotness, Lady Dicks and Lesbian Brothers: Staging the Unimaginable at the WOW Café Theatre" By Kate Davy

08-21-2011, 11:18 AM	#25
Kobi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status: Happy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic. Posts: 9,234 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,840 Thanked 34,661 Times in 7,652 Posts Rep Power: 21474860	I never knew this thread existed. I am appreciating the thoughts and the resources it is providing. Trying to get back up to speed with is happening and has happened in an awesome task. I am reading "Full Frontal Feminism - a young womans guide to why feminism matters" by Jessica Valenti. And "Click. When we knew we were feminists" edited by Courtney Martin and J Courtney Sullivan. Both brought me to feministing.com and ifeminist.com. This is so cool!