Strategic Voting

[betenoire]

I'm curious about how people here feel about that.

While I am a big supporter of The NDP I do, in my current riding, vote for The Liberal Party because I know that where I live the Liberals are the ONLY party that have a snowballs chance in hell of beating the pure evil Conservative Party.

If I was still living in Toronto or Vancouver, I would be voting NDP - because the NDP has a chance there. But since moving to Sarnia, I feel like my vote is almost wasted by voting with my heart - so I use it to cockblock the Conservatives.

Do you think I am a dishonest voter, or a smart voter? And why?

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I'm curious about how people here feel about that.

While I am a big supporter of The NDP I do, in my current riding, vote for The Liberal Party because I know that where I live the Liberals are the ONLY party that have a snowballs chance in hell of beating the pure evil Conservative Party.

If I was still living in Toronto or Vancouver, I would be voting NDP - because the NDP has a chance there. But since moving to Sarnia, I feel like my vote is almost wasted by voting with my heart - so I use it to cockblock the Conservatives.

Do you think I am a dishonest voter, or a smart voter? And why?

Honestly, I think you are a smart voter. I'm a big booster of strategic voting and I wish more people did so. In local races, I tend to vote Green and in national races I tend to vote Democratic. If we had a parliamentary system, I would probably vote Green in national races in order to give them a place at the table.

[BullDog]

I think you are a smart voter. Cockblock the Conservatives!

[UofMfan]

I think you are a smart voter. I wish there were more like you in the US.

I have voted strategically here many times in order to make sure the evil doers don't get into office.

I even voted for the Conservative primary (I am a registered Liberal voter) only so that I could vote for the candidate opposing the very strong Conservative. It worked. I also encourage my friends to vote strategically.

Voting with your heart is fun when you know the majority is doing the same and when you know your vote will not go to waste. Every vote counts.

[betenoire]

But we do have a Parliament in Canada.

However, knowing that the NDP is never going to get a seat in Parliament from the riding that I currently live in - I work to give that seat to someone from the Liberal Party.

I'm a little bit torn, to be honest. I love that my NDP has the seats that it has in the House of Commons. I also like that the Bloc Quebecois has seats. It totally makes happy that there are two seats that have gone to Independents. Woo! Those parties have representation! They are there in the room where things get done.

But then when I do some math (which I hate) I realise that if all those seats that are held by the NDP, Bloc Quebecios, and Independents had gone to Liberals instead....we wouldn't have those fucking Conservatives in power (although, not too much power - since they didn't form the majority) right now.

At least the good guys all get to join opposition forces and cockblock Stephen Harper together. *shrug*

edited to add: why the hell did I put this in the Red Zone? I am a stupidhead.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by betenoire

edited to add: why the hell did I put this in the Red Zone? I am a stupidhead.

[ModHat=On]
Do you want it moved to the Politics area?
[/ModHat]

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

[ModHat=On]
Do you want it moved to the Politics area?
[/ModHat]

I didn't know you were a mod! Now I have to play nice around you, too.

You can if you wanna. It's prolly a more appropriate area for it.

[Linus]

I was always in a toss-up as to whether to vote for my party of choice or what when I lived at home (Ottawa and Toronto areas). I was lucky that downtown Toronto was either Liberal or NDP. The reality is that the Liberals need to get off their asses and find a decent representative leader (the NDP will never end up in power after the Ontario NDP did their duty in power).

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Linus

I was always in a toss-up as to whether to vote for my party of choice or what when I lived at home (Ottawa and Toronto areas). I was lucky that downtown Toronto was either Liberal or NDP. The reality is that the Liberals need to get off their asses and find a decent representative leader (the NDP will never end up in power after the Ontario NDP did their duty in power).

Never say never! I think things are cyclical - and I really do believe that there will come a time (again!) that the people of Ontario are so tired of the evil Conservatives and the stupid Liberals that they'll give the NDP another crack at it.

It's really a shame about the Liberal party. They haven't had a decent leader since Jean Chrétien (say what you will about him, but I liked the guy), which is so clearly a big part of why we are in our current mess. Jesus, why is it so hard for them to come up with a frontman with more likability than Harper? That guy is such a shitstick!

God, did I really just admit that a good portion of winning votes (not MY vote, but votes in general) has to do with likability?

Lickability is good, too. That's how the US got Bill Clinton - he's a babe!

[Linus]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Never say never! I think things are cyclical - and I really do believe that there will come a time (again!) that the people of Ontario are so tired of the evil Conservatives and the stupid Liberals that they'll give the NDP another crack at it.

It's really a shame about the Liberal party. They haven't had a decent leader since Jean Chrétien (say what you will about him, but I liked the guy), which is so clearly a big part of why we are in our current mess. Jesus, why is it so hard for them to come up with a frontman with more likability than Harper? That guy is such a shitstick!

God, did I really just admit that a good portion of winning votes (not MY vote, but votes in general) has to do with likability?

Lickability is good, too. That's how the US got Bill Clinton - he's a babe!

The question is who's likeability? The local MP or the PM? It appears that the Conservatives are on a rise right now, especially with the economy on an upswing. Harper is and always will be a Bush wannabe. I would still prefer the Green party to the NDP but that's a personal preference (I dislike that unions protect workers who don't do their job because they don't want to, not because of illness or what-have-you).

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Linus

The question is who's likeability? The local MP or the PM? It appears that the Conservatives are on a rise right now, especially with the economy on an upswing. Harper is and always will be a Bush wannabe. I would still prefer the Green party to the NDP but that's a personal preference (I dislike that unions protect workers who don't do their job because they don't want to, not because of illness or what-have-you).

The PM, really. I think most people do vote based on the PM rather than the local MP. That's probably wrong to do, but there you have it. It's hard to separate the person running for PM from the person who is in your local riding - and so it should be. It's the seats from all those little ridings that declares the PM.

I guess I'm not as concerned about local politics as I should be. And I guess I pretty clearly vote along party lines - as I'm sure most people do.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Linus

I would still prefer the Green party to the NDP but that's a personal preference (I dislike that unions protect workers who don't do their job because they don't want to, not because of illness or what-have-you).

I forgot to comment on this part.

I like unions. I get the fear of unions "protecting the lazy worker" - but I also get that that's pretty much a catchphrase that anti-union people love. I would rather have all workers protected (even the ones who may not deserve protection) than to have no workers protected at all.

God, if the place where my spouse worked was unionised they would have never had the opportunity to fuck him over as thoroughly as they did.

(Backstory - Nick needed a knee replacement. Nick has a knee replacement. His employer wanted him back at work 2 weeks after surgery. 2 weeks go by and he goes to his doc who says "no way!" and fills out some extension of leave forms. Nick brings the forms to work. Nick gets fired for having to take off more time than they felt like letting him take. That shit is just WRONG. And it happens regularly. Honest people need protection from shitty employers. I am done derailing now.)

[Linus]

Originally Posted by betenoire

The PM, really. I think most people do vote based on the PM rather than the local MP. That's probably wrong to do, but there you have it. It's hard to separate the person running for PM from the person who is in your local riding - and so it should be. It's the seats from all those little ridings that declares the PM.

I guess I'm not as concerned about local politics as I should be. And I guess I pretty clearly vote along party lines - as I'm sure most people do.

I don't know if that's true any more. I mean, the NDP thing wasn't an aberration and resulted in a pretty swift and interesting change in Canadian politics as a whole. I think some do vote based on how well they are represented, some based on the choices of leader and some based on some other factor (e.g., party lines, etc.).

**Note: I was trying to see if there was a poll/stat about voting patterns but I can't find it. I know there was one done in the 90s but I don't think anyone has done a recent study to see how it's changed (I think today it's all about who can convince you that your bottom line will look better than the Jones next door).

Originally Posted by betenoire

I forgot to comment on this part.

I like unions. I get the fear of unions "protecting the lazy worker" - but I also get that that's pretty much a catchphrase that anti-union people love. I would rather have all workers protected (even the ones who may not deserve protection) than to have no workers protected at all.

God, if the place where my spouse worked was unionised they would have never had the opportunity to fuck him over as thoroughly as they did.

I was part of a union when I was a professor. And yet.. not part. Because I was a contract professor (Seneca College in Toronto), I had to pay dues but wasn't represented by the union (uh..?!). Additionally, my attempts to get tenure or permanent professor status was blocked by the union even though there were quite a few professors that didn't know how to teach and had limited knowledge of what they taught. The school had a shortage of good professors, many were about to retire, students said they learned lots from me, colleagues liked me, the bosses liked me but the union said no.

Overall I like the idea of unions (much like a lot of socialized things). However, many have turned into a capitalist venture and aren't really there for the average worker.

(Backstory - Nick needed a knee replacement. Nick has a knee replacement. His employer wanted him back at work 2 weeks after surgery. 2 weeks go by and he goes to his doc who says "no way!" and fills out some extension of leave forms. Nick brings the forms to work. Nick gets fired for having to take off more time than they felt like letting him take. That shit is just WRONG. And it happens regularly. Honest people need protection from shitty employers. I am done derailing now.)

What about Workman's Comp? I thought it was their job to protect against this kind of stuff?


I think the Rhino Party needs to make a comeback. That or Marg, Princess Warrior needs to run for PM.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Linus

What about Workman's Comp? I thought it was their job to protect against this kind of stuff?

Nick still lives in Ohio, where employers can pretty much do whatever the hell they want.

I do not know what Workman's Comp is. Is that kind of like WSIB? Because WSIB is for if you get hurt ON the job.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by betenoire

Nick still lives in Ohio, where employers can pretty much do whatever the hell they want.

I do not know what Workman's Comp is. Is that kind of like WSIB? Because WSIB is for if you get hurt ON the job.

Ah.. Ok. I thought Nick was in Ontario.


Hrmm.. they used to call it Workman's Comp but perhaps it is WSIB (the acronym sounds familiar). And I thought it covered both on and off job injuries but I think you're right. It may be only on the job. If it was Canada, then I'm pretty sure (unless the Conservatives have changed it) that EI would cover it (at least financially).

[Apocalipstic]

I think you are a smart voter!

I do this too. If I voted my heart I would vote way to the left of the Democrats, so I vote against the Republicans.

[Daryn]

Years ago, and I mean many decades when I was wet behind the ears and in college, some of my circle had this idea that they should infiltrate the Repub party and try to change it from within. From what has transpired, I don't think they fared well. And if you hang out with the wrong crowd you risk being co-opted and buying into stuff you once disdained. I live in a state where many races are "non-partisan" meaning no party affiliation with candidate's name on the ballot. Still you can pretty much tell who is who just by the drivel in the voter's pamphlet and who is endorsing a particular candidate.

[DapperButch]

I didn't see this thread until now. It is a good one. I would really like to see a poll with it. It would be interesting. I wonder if you can still put one in. Or would care to?

I say vote strategically, it makes the most sense.

Originally Posted by betenoire

Nick still lives in Ohio, where employers can pretty much do whatever the hell they want.

I do not know what Workman's Comp is. Is that kind of like WSIB? Because WSIB is for if you get hurt ON the job.

Originally Posted by Linus

Ah.. Ok. I thought Nick was in Ontario.


Hrmm.. they used to call it Workman's Comp but perhaps it is WSIB (the acronym sounds familiar). And I thought it covered both on and off job injuries but I think you're right. It may be only on the job. If it was Canada, then I'm pretty sure (unless the Conservatives have changed it) that EI would cover it (at least financially).

Ok, I know this is an old topic, but I just have to ask since this seems so crazy.

Did Nick have his physician sign FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) papers? It guarantees that one's job is held for 6 months as long as your doc says you cannot work. After six months, it guarantees that they will put you in some position within the company for up to one year (I am not sure if it has to be a comparable position, or not). It is a Federal, not state by state, so it must be available to him.

I sign these papers all the time for my clients and have it myself due to the surgery and regular med appts that I need to have for the next couple of months.

I can totally see some jerk employer not telling an employee about the availability of this. I already knew about it, but my boss actually told me to make sure that I filled them out, just in case someone questioned him about my time out. It protects him as well, as a manager.

I'm sorry this happened to him. Such bull crap.

Yes, workman's comp is when you get hurt on the job and relates to who pays you while you are out. Different issue.


ETA: http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/

Ok, the above says 12 work weeks within a 12 month period. What I wrote above I have heard time and time again, so, who knows. No matter, he should have been covered. It can be continuous leave (out all the time), or intermittent leave (out for doc appts) and just gets added up by hours, I believe.