Femme Invisibility?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by girlin2une

Perhaps "maintain" was the wrong word...
I guess I just mean that I've always been femme. Queer visibility is the quintessential double edged sword. People who are read as queer tend to face more overt discrimination and hostility, while the typical femme can slide by without much confrontation at all. It doesn't necessarily make us feel better or safer for that matter (in this trump day and age especially). We have conversations with the grocer, the manicurist, the Dr, teachers, parents (if we are teachers ourselves) and other day to day interactions with strangers and acquaintances. During one relationship, I was with a woman who had a very masculine french name and was very butch. Whenever we were out together, we got stares, misjudgements etc. This carried on in other relationships I had as well. It was like a constant proving of myself. "Yes, I have long hair" "Yes, I wear dresses" "No, I don't wear birkenstocks" "Yes, I love to embrace my femininity" "Yes, I really DO play baseball and no, I don't play in a dress" and so on and so on...
I'm a queer woman and I am really not interested in hiding that fact, but it's often challenging and complicated to try to be visible in public as queer. The cultural presumption of straightness is deeply ingrained, and many, perhaps most - people assume that everyone is heterosexual, despite any cues to the contrary.
I wouldn't necessarily mind people not knowing I'm gay, but I definitely don't like being thought of as straight. When I lived in Vancouver, and was active in the B/F and leather community, everyone knew me as femme. I didn't have to identify my orientation nor prove that I was queer. I really miss Vancouver... Now, living where I do, in a small Ontario town, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE just assumes I am a straight girl. I have had propositions by cis-guys and have had co-workers try to set me up with cis-guys. When I pass by the few other queers in town, I'd try to give them that nod... you know the one... If a butch walked by, I'd even meet said butch's eye, but yet still.... everyone just assumes I'm another straight girl... Don't get me started on Transguys (my preference)... I would not find one here with a 10 foot pole!
I think I've gone on another ramble, and I guess I should be more complacent about it. I DO have a wonderful partner and honestly; does it really matter in the end if we are seen as a heterosexual couple? We both know we are queer....

I get this and have been there. The cloak of invisibility can be both protective and smothering; sometimes simultaneously. It's a strange rope to walk.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by girlin2une

No offense was intended with my use of the word "queer"...

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

None taken. I'm just sensitive to the presumption that we all must use 'queer' to describe ourselves now.

Ditto.

Queer encompasses many identities.

Lesbian is specific.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by introverted1

I'm recently divorced from my wife, and I have to agree...the continual having to explain that my soon to be ex was another woman was most difficult.

SO true, when you are femme and you even say divorce, people assume its a man unless they know you.

[girl_dee]

There is butch woman (that I may be assuming wrongly) that lives near me. She seems rather uptight. When I walk my little dog right past her she looks past me, then the other way past me. I try to make eye contact to just say hello, but she isn't having it.

Yesterday evening she was standing out by the sidewalk, apparently watching the moon come up. I looked over and saw it too. It was gorgeous.

On the way back she was still there, i said "Nice moon!" she said "What??"

I shrunk down and said *nice moon* and keep scooting along. She said "uh yeah its pretty" .. but it was clear she was very uptight.

This place is a world away from New Orleans but wow. I was told the gays *live under a rock* around here but goodness.

[YBFemme]

Be yourself. Butch women will know. Trust me. And those who do not, meh.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by YBFemme

Be yourself. Butch women will know. Trust me. And those who do not, meh.

Very good advice.

[Gemme]

That personally hasn't been experience.

[Nat]

Retailers using the word "femme" on clothing not meant for femmes

[candy_coated_bitch]

Originally Posted by Gemme

That personally hasn't been experience.

Mine either.

[homoe]

Originally Posted by YBFemme

Be yourself. Butch women will know. Trust me. And those who do not, meh.

I apologize beforehand if butches aren't allowed to post in the femme zone, but I take umbrage at the "And those who do not, meh"!

There have been a few times I did not know, and I would hate to think someone would blow me off or deem me unworthy simply based on that.

[candy_coated_bitch]

Originally Posted by Nat

Retailers using the word "femme" on clothing not meant for femmes

So obnoxious to me. I read fashion magazines and they are calling "girly" style "femme". Like sporty, boho, etc. I've found it an ignorant use of the word femme.

[girl_dee]

Please take one if you should run across a 2 x 4 butch .....

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by YBFemme

Be yourself. Butch women will know. Trust me. And those who do not, meh.

Originally Posted by homoe

I apologize beforehand if butches aren't allowed to post in the femme zone, but I take umbrage at the "And those who do not, meh"!

There have been a few times I did not know, and I would hate to think someone would blow me off or deem me unworthy simply based on that.

Of course you can post here homoe! I believe that we are allowed to post in any thread as long as it is respectful.

I do recall some issues in the femme lingerie thread, however.. but that is something else.

There has never been any way that a butch has known that I was a lesbian femme by looking at me.

When I was younger, I simply looked like a girl.

Now that I am older, I look like a woman.

I don't always know if a butch is a lesbian either. There are the outdoorsy, flannel shirt (using a stereotype here for illustrative purposes only!!) straight women out and about everywhere.

The only way to truly know each other is the look. That moment when your eyes catch each other, a smile is given and the gaze is held just a smidgen longer than one would do with a straight woman.

Then, you have to dive in (so to speak) and go talk to the butch to find out for sure.

Same with those of us that ID as Femmes.

When all else fails, there is a 2 x 4 but I prefer the subtle approach.

[IrishAmazon]

Yes, it's my perception/experience, and knowing that there is a different struggle on the other side of the cloth. But here is my experience.

I tend to look like the woman next door, on blend in. It's just who I am, maybe its because I was the tall girl all those years in school, and the fat girl, I taught myself to hide in plain sight. Unfortunately when in used to try to go to gay of lesbian bars and clubs in My late teens and twenties I was so effective at what had become natural I would get asked to leave. Or reminded when I walked in that my kind did not belong, quite verbal and aggressive

I have worn jewelry when I couldn't find something tasteful I made it. I am not the kind of girl who wears T shirts especially with logos or sticker type stuff on it, they don't usually fit anyhow, I am still full sized and chesty.


Typically outing of myself in work places or the like is when I am asked about my husband or if I am married, my common answer thankfully is no longer valid. Women would look at me so puzzled when I'd say something like no it isn't leagle for me yet. And keep talking about whatever the other topic was and then you'd see some pieces start to fit. At some point they comesback around to i never would have thought you were gay. At one point I was managing a restaurant and my love at the time brought our son in, and when one of the girls on staff put it together she got all excited about how kinky I must be under my disgise.

I have never been shy or ashamed about who I love or how, I like shocking people and reminding them that no you can't always tell, I don't like when men mostly former bosses decides that I just needed a real man or vitamin D so they feel entitled to group touch or feel. I have learned to avoid or duck not to get into that type of situation or they are that insistent I remind them why they want to leave me the fuck alone.

Sorry my brain wandered....

It would be nice to be recognized counterparts or cohorts, it's makes the world not so big when it does happen, but it only seems to happen when I am holding someone's hand.

[akiza]

it can be frustrating i don't know if it's because i give a cold exterior or i'm too much weird/analytical or straight i swear boys can tell stupid things when they're interessed it's 'cause of one of them i've been nice and haven't insulted him maybe a little that i met my first soft butch and her sister who want to have a go with me but they have a bond and i'm afraid to cause problems why encounter always come with hetero guys! breves i'd try some clothes once i travel in the capital maybe it'll work

[Slow breath]

A year ago, an 11 year relationship I was in abruptly ended. I was devastated, and one of the first things I did was cut my waist length hair off. I felt like I had removed my femme veil. I have not changed my personal style, but having an asymmetrical feminine haircut made me more visible than I've ever been.

So it has made me wonder, how much of our identity as femme is in our hair style?

I, like many, always passed as a heterosexual female. My new hair, not so much. I get the nods, the strangers chatting me up at public events, etc. that did NOT happen before, unless the look/glance/energies collided. My single self is enjoying the attention. But has made me very reflective on just how invisible I was as a femme with long hair.

As I am currently dating, I also wonder, and often ask my butch dates, their opinion on hair. Lol. Seems as though it's a non issue, because femme is femme, or so I am told, but I still currently feel as though my hair was a huge part of my identity.

Still loving my shorter hairstyle, btw.

[Wiccanfemme]

This is something that I constantly struggle with. I feel as though if I don't have rainbow jewelry clearly visible or a pride shirt on that everyone just assumes that I am straight. I hate hearing the dismissive oh she just hasn't found the right guy yet. I think I am very obvious when there is a butch around. That energy draws me like a magnet, I can't seem to drag my eyes away and any friends that I happen to be with instantly see my attraction. I think I must turn all shades of red and get so flustered. I don't know if the butches really see me though. Sometimes I worry that my look lingering a little too long might be taken the wrong way and they might feel like I'm judging them or looking at them in disapproval even though that is definitely not the case. I think that I stood out more when my hair was shorter and a violet red color, it was a feminine hairstyle but much shorter than it is now. I think it made me look a little more punkish instead of girl next door with my longer dark hair now. Sometimes I'm at a loss and wish I could just go up and tap the butch on the shoulder and say hello do you see me? I think you're hot! Lol. So not appropriate but what's a girl to do?

[gotoseagrl]

I've had shorter hair before, but nothing above the shoulders much. I was, as I am now, very girlie, so it didn't make me feel or present as any less femme. But now my hair is longer than it's ever been and while I keep thinking of cutting it again, I can't seem to let it go. It annoys me sometimes, but for some reason I like it too. I think it does make me feel even more feminine, if that's possible. Maybe the mermaid in me.

Originally Posted by Slow breath

A year ago, an 11 year relationship I was in abruptly ended. I was devastated, and one of the first things I did was cut my waist length hair off. I felt like I had removed my femme veil. I have not changed my personal style, but having an asymmetrical feminine haircut made me more visible than I've ever been.

So it has made me wonder, how much of our identity as femme is in our hair style?

I, like many, always passed as a heterosexual female. My new hair, not so much. I get the nods, the strangers chatting me up at public events, etc. that did NOT happen before, unless the look/glance/energies collided. My single self is enjoying the attention. But has made me very reflective on just how invisible I was as a femme with long hair.

As I am currently dating, I also wonder, and often ask my butch dates, their opinion on hair. Lol. Seems as though it's a non issue, because femme is femme, or so I am told, but I still currently feel as though my hair was a huge part of my identity.

Still loving my shorter hairstyle, btw.

[gotoseagrl]

I have sort of the opposite reaction. When I see one, especially when I can somehow sense they might be trans, I turn red hot too, but I avoid all eye contact as much as possible. There was one who was cashier the other day and I couldn't really raise my head to eye level, and I felt bad about after I left, which was of course quickly cause apparently I don't know to act right lol. So this either makes it even more obvious or makes me appear to be offensive or just nuts. If they only knew, which hopefully they don't, in the moment.

Originally Posted by Wiccanfemme

This is something that I constantly struggle with. I feel as though if I don't have rainbow jewelry clearly visible or a pride shirt on that everyone just assumes that I am straight. I hate hearing the dismissive oh she just hasn't found the right guy yet. I think I am very obvious when there is a butch around. That energy draws me like a magnet, I can't seem to drag my eyes away and any friends that I happen to be with instantly see my attraction. I think I must turn all shades of red and get so flustered. I don't know if the butches really see me though.

[*Anya*]

Hair.

I have pretty much always had long hair.

When I was a little girl, my mom would set my hair in strips of rags so I would have long, Shirley Temple ringlets.

One time, in the late 90's, I wanted to try short hair for the first time in my life. I went to Vidal Sassoon. It was a terrific haircut and I got a lot of compliments.

It did not help me in the femme visibility department. I did not get any butch or femme head nods as though I was suddenly recognizable. (The only thing that has ever made a difference in terms of recognition, has been when I have been out and about with a butch girlfriend).

I did not like my short hair. I felt like a boy. I really felt different. I did not feel like me when I looked in the mirror.

I grew it out and never have had really short hair since. Not the kind of hair where my ears showed or my neck would show (different than if I put it in a bun or in a ponytail).

It's not that I think femmes need long hair, I do not. Femmes are Femmes no matter our length of hair.

This particular femme feels "normal" and it feels right for me to have long hair.