Transactional Analysis?

[Nat]

My gf was asked to watch and write a reaction to this video for one of her classes. I got to watch it with her and found it really interesting.



This video is only focused on a small portion of the Transactional Analysis theory. For more info on the key concepts of Transactional Analysis Theory, click here.

So,

What do you think about it?

What rings true for you?

What doesn't?

Are there things you dislike about this theory?

Have you encountered this theory before?

If so, do you think knowing about it has helped you understand and/or manage your interactions with others?

It's totally new to me, so I'm all ears.

[Lynn]

When I was in high school, in the 70's, I read a book, "I'm OK, You're OK," which is supposed to be a practical guide to TA. I found it so interesting, and it probably sparked my interest in pursuing a career in a psychological field. I had a therapist who used TA as her treatment modality, which I hated. She always wanted me to express my feelings by hitting pillows, which was embarrassing and felt contrived. The idea of TA seems simplistic to me, but, at the same time, having a way of viewing emotion and the workings of the mind is a useful metaphor in helping people understand and feel more in control of themselves.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by Lynn

She always wanted me to express my feelings by hitting pillows, which was embarrassing and felt contrived.

haha I've so been there.

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by Nat

haha I've so been there.

I can remember talking about something and then having her interrupt me in order to have me hit something and try to yell or cry, or whatever. It was nutty, and just cut short my real self-expression. I don't know, though, if that's really how it was supposed to be done.

[moxie]

Transactional Analysis gets thrown around a lot with Gestalt Theory. I don't use what people traditionally think of as transactional analysis techniques, but the empty chair technique is often used in transactional analysis (it's from Gestalt) and I use it quite often.

Transactional analysis is used a lot in the business world now-a-days.

My brain is too fried to get into great length. I will post more this weekend

[T D]

I had a friend back in the 80's who was totally into TA. I'm not sure I actually noticed how it did or didn't enlighten or guide his life though. Although I find the whole concept interesting.

[T D]

Originally Posted by Lynn

When I was in high school, in the 70's, I read a book, "I'm OK, You're OK," which is supposed to be a practical guide to TA. I found it so interesting, and it probably sparked my interest in pursuing a career in a psychological field. I had a therapist who used TA as her treatment modality, which I hated. She always wanted me to express my feelings by hitting pillows, which was embarrassing and felt contrived. The idea of TA seems simplistic to me, but, at the same time, having a way of viewing emotion and the workings of the mind is a useful metaphor in helping people understand and feel more in control of themselves.

I used to kick the chit outta cardboard boxes in the backyard. It did wonders for me... just sayin

[Nat]

Originally Posted by Lynn

I can remember talking about something and then having her interrupt me in order to have me hit something and try to yell or cry, or whatever. It was nutty, and just cut short my real self-expression. I don't know, though, if that's really how it was supposed to be done.

I have no idea either if that's how it's supposed to be done in therapy - though I've been asked to do it. Thankfully only once though. I think it went like this:

Therapist: What are you feeling right now?
Me: I don't know.
Therapist: You are feeling angry.
Me: I feel really exhausted, but I don't feel angry.
Therapist: That's because anger is an exhausting emotion
Me: Hmm. You think?
Therapist: Yes. Now, I want you to take this pillow ...

At least, that's my memory. It's been a good 10 years though.

I've been focusing a lot on the parent/child/adult stuff in the video - just sort of going through different situations in my life and connecting which part I have operated from. I have known about the id/super-ego/ego for a long time, but I never thought about interactions between people with that in mind.

One thing that occurs to me about the one-on-one therapy experience - at least my experience in therapy - is that I have tended to naturally approach it from my kid self. I think I've done a lot of work from that place - but not really addressed what it is to function and communicate well as an adult - unless it's in that parental way.

I'm sure a good therapist has the capacity to counteract this, but it seems like that sort of parent/child dynamic would come pretty naturally in that situation.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by T D

I used to kick the chit outta cardboard boxes in the backyard. It did wonders for me... just sayin

I don't tend to be drawn toward physical stuff like that so much - but I've been surprised how much exercise - even walking - can help with emotional stuff. and I always thought primal scream therapy would be a blast.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by puregrrl

Transactional Analysis gets thrown around a lot with Gestalt Theory. I don't use what people traditionally think of as transactional analysis techniques, but the empty chair technique is often used in transactional analysis (it's from Gestalt) and I use it quite often.

Transactional analysis is used a lot in the business world now-a-days.

My brain is too fried to get into great length. I will post more this weekend

I look forward to reading when you have a nice unfried brain

[moxie]

Originally Posted by Nat

I have no idea either if that's how it's supposed to be done in therapy - though I've been asked to do it. Thankfully only once though. I think it went like this:

Therapist: What are you feeling right now?
Me: I don't know.
Therapist: You are feeling angry.
Me: I feel really exhausted, but I don't feel angry.
Therapist: That's because anger is an exhausting emotion
Me: Hmm. You think?
Therapist: Yes. Now, I want you to take this pillow ...

At least, that's my memory. It's been a good 10 years though.

I've been focusing a lot on the parent/child/adult stuff in the video - just sort of going through different situations in my life and connecting which part I have operated from. I have known about the id/super-ego/ego for a long time, but I never thought about interactions between people with that in mind.

One thing that occurs to me about the one-on-one therapy experience - at least my experience in therapy - is that I have tended to naturally approach it from my kid self. I think I've done a lot of work from that place - but not really addressed what it is to function and communicate well as an adult - unless it's in that parental way.

I'm sure a good therapist has the capacity to counteract this, but it seems like that sort of parent/child dynamic would come pretty naturally in that situation.

Hmmm.
I don't know if I like this therapist. They shouldn't be telling you how you are feeling without telling you why they believe it to be so, like the look on your face, your posture, or your tone of voice. And it should be something like "You sound angry" or "Your posture is telling me that you are angry."

Sorry, off topic. I could talk about this kind of stuff for days.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by puregrrl

Hmmm.
I don't know if I like this therapist. They shouldn't be telling you how you are feeling without telling you why they believe it to be so, like the look on your face, your posture, or your tone of voice. And it should be something like "You sound angry" or "Your posture is telling me that you are angry."

Sorry, off topic. I could talk about this kind of stuff for days.

She was an interesting person but I didn't stay there long. I don't remember more about the conversation, but I *think* I had told her about a situation that probably *should* have made me angry. Back at that age (19 or 20), I just really was not in touch at all with my anger. So maybe she saw something I didn't.

But in the end, I felt like therapy with her was very fluffy and so I moved on.

[Cyclopea]

The whole "Parent-Child-Adult" paradigm of the human experience in Transactional Analysis seems overly quaint, maybe even pedophillic. He seems to reduce "parenthood" and "childhood" to pathology while fetishizing them.
Did Freud theorize that the Id, Ego, SuperEgo were universal components to the psyche of all ages and "roles"? I believe so. That makes more sense to me. Perhaps it's a matter of semantics but I find the re-framing problematic.

"I'm OK, You're OK" seemed to me like an outcropping of the popular baby boomer naval-gazing "Self-Actualization" movement that swept the U.S. in a wave of narcissism in the 60's and 70's. The "Human-Potential" movement- which really could have been called "Me, Me, and More for Me", as evidenced by Werner Erhard, EST, Scientology, etc etc and every other expensive encounter group weekend seminar where people got in touch with their "Themselves" and weren't allowed to go to the bathroom. They all tried to introduce cultic linguistic memes into society at large to spread their pseudoscientific ideology but thankfully not much of it "took". Like the inventor/proprietor of Transactional Analysis Eric Berne's word "Rapo":
------------------------------------
" Rapo: A Sexual Game

From Games People Play by Dr. Eric Berne

Thesis. This is a game played between a man and a woman which might more politely be called, in the milder forms at least, 'Kiss Off' or 'Indignation'. It may be played with varying degrees of intensity.

1. First-Degree 'Rapo', or 'Kiss Off', is popular at social gatherings and consists essentially of mild flirtation. White signals that she is available and gets her pleasure from the man's pursuit. As soon as he has committed himself, the game is over. If she is polite, she may say quite frankly 'I appreciate your compliments and thank you very much', and move on to the next conquest. If she is less generous, she may simply leave him. A skillful player can make this game last for a long time at a large social gathering by moving around frequently, so that the man has to carry out complicated maneuvers in order to follow her without being too obvious.

2. In Second-Degree 'Rapo', or 'Indignation', White gets only secondary satisfaction from Black's advances. Her primary gratification codes from rejecting him, so that this game is also colloquially known as 'Buzz Off, Buster'. She leads Black into a much more serious commitment than the mild flirtation of First-Degree 'Rapo' and enjoys watching his discomfiture when she repulses him. Black, of course, is not as helpless as he seems, and may have gone to considerable trouble to get himself involved. Usually he is playing some variation of 'Kick Me'.

3. Third-Degree 'Rapo' is a vicious game which ends in murder, suicide or the courtroom. Here White leads Black into compromising physical contact and then claims that he has made a criminal assault or has done her irreparable damage. In its most cynical form White may actually allow him to complete the sexual act so that she gets that enjoyment before confronting him. The confrontation may be immediate, as in the illegitimate cry of rape, or it may be long delayed, as in suicide or homicide following a prolonged love affair. If she chooses to play it as a criminal assault, she may have no difficulty in finding mercenary or morbidly interested allies, such as the press, the police, counselors and relatives. Sometimes, however, these outsiders may cynically turn on her, so that she loses the initiative and becomes a tool in their games.

In some cases outsiders perform a different function. They force the game on an unwilling White because they want to play 'Let's You and Him Fight'. They put her in such a position that in order to save her face or her reputation she has to cry rape. This is particularly apt to happen with girls under the legal age of consent; they may be quite willing to continue a liaison, but because it is discovered or made an issue of, they feel constrained to turn the romance into a game of Third-Degree 'Rapo'.

In one well-known situation, the wary Joseph refused to be inveigled into a game of 'Rapo', whereupon Potiphar's wife made the classical switch into 'Let's You and Him Fight', an excellent example of the way a hard player reacts to antithesis, and of the dangers that beset people who refuse to play games. These two games are combined in the well-known 'Badger Game', in which the woman seduces Black and then cries rape, at which point her husband takes charge and abuses Black for purposes of blackmail.

One of the most unfortunate and acute forms of Third-Degree 'Rapo' occurs relatively frequently between homosexual strangers, who in a matter of an hour or so may bring the game to a point of homicide. The cynical and criminal variations of this game contribute a large volume to sensational newspaper copy.

The childhood prototype of 'Rapo' is the same as that of 'Frigid Woman', in which the little girl induces the boy to humiliate himself or get dirty and then sneers at him, as classically described by Maugham in Of Human Bondage and, as already noted, by Dickens in Great Expectations. This is Second Degree. A harder form, approaching Third Degree, may be played in tough neighborhoods.

Antithesis. The man's ability to avoid becoming involved in this game or to keep it under control depends of his capacity to distinguish genuine expressions of feeling from moves in the game. If he is thus able to exert social control, he may obtain a great deal of pleasure from the mild flirtations of 'Kiss Off'. On the other hand it is difficult to conceive of a safe antithesis for the Potiphar's Wife maneuver, other than checking out before closing time with no forwarding address. In 1938 this writer met an ageing Joseph in Aleppo who had checked out of Constantinople thirty-two years previously after one of the Sultan's ladies had cornered him during a business visit to the Yildiz harem. He had to abandon his shop, but took time to pick up his hoard of gold francs, and had never returned.

Relatives. The male versions of 'Rapo' are notoriously found in commercial situations: ‘Casting Couch' (and then she didn't get the part) and 'Cuddle Up' (and then she got fired)."
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[Cyclopea]

I look forward to reading the opinions of those who practice or have experienced or otherwise reflect on the "legacy" of the Transactional Analysis movement. I love this stuff! Great thread.

[socialjustice_fsu]

The whole "Parent-Child-Adult" paradigm of the human experience in Transactional Analysis seems overly quaint, maybe even pedophillic. He seems to reduce "parenthood" and "childhood" to pathology while fetishizing them.
Did Freud theorize that the Id, Ego, SuperEgo were universal components to the psyche of all ages and "roles"? I believe so. That makes more sense to me. Perhaps it's a matter of semantics but I find the re-framing problematic.

Cyclopea, I think you are right on target with this movement. In my earlier days of psychiatry the TA movement was fading and fading fast. What I did encounter was the fall-out from some of the die-hard practitioners and their loyal believers. While this concept may serve as an etiology for what might motivate responses it hardly addresses the vital area of what we now call brief therapy. Yes, understanding the causes of responses may be good, however, one has to operate within the confines of the not so traditional psychoanalytic model that takes enormous amounts of time and questionable efficacy. (ouch)
With that said...Berne emphasized the influence of the ego states of Parent, Adult, and Child on a person's interactions with others. The Parent ego state relates to limit-setting and nurturing. The Adult ego state is concerned with reality testing and estimating probabilities in transactions with the outside world. The Child ego state comprises the feelings, wishes, and adaptations actually experienced in childhood.
Most outcomes of an exchange are decided by ulterior transactions, psychological responses that are outside the awareness of the participants. People play games, adopting the role of Persecutor, Rescuer, or Victim and using ulterior transactions in such a way that everyone loses. Treatment (?) focuses on feelings analysis, script analysis, and stroking (stimulating and recognizing other human beings). Feelings may be simple reactions, feelings from the past reactivated by a stimulus in the present, or indulgements or displaced feelings that are a backdrop in today's scene of living. I will not ramble on any more because I think this paints the landscape ot TA.

As it 'fit in' during the all about self-discovery period I find it not to be an effective model in today's arena. I have a very simple take on a model such as this and it has served me well to keep me out the court room. People generally come to a therapist because they have experienced a crisis - or, something has shook up their homeostasis...it can be the carpe diem that invokes fertile ground for change, correct? I, as an ethical therapist would never take a patient through such an ordeal to much later get to the here and now issue. Patient's generally are fragile. If the patient's ego was healthy I probably would not be seeing them. To me, it takes a well grounded therapist, a well grounded individual to reach any level of efficacy through TA. In fact, left in unseasoned therapist's hands this could be deadly. One cannot 'regress' a patient when the patient presents for help. The timing is just wrong.

I look forward to hearing AtLastHome's and Dapperbutch's take on TA. At this point in my career - which I guard defensively - I would not apply TA although some of the basic tenets can be extrapolated to build on a sensical, ethical approach that is well blended with applicable models that provide our patient's with the optimal care in a time-constrained system.

~ Socialjustice_fsu

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by socialjustice_fsu

The whole "Parent-Child-Adult" paradigm of the human experience in Transactional Analysis seems overly quaint, maybe even pedophillic. He seems to reduce "parenthood" and "childhood" to pathology while fetishizing them.
Did Freud theorize that the Id, Ego, SuperEgo were universal components to the psyche of all ages and "roles"? I believe so. That makes more sense to me. Perhaps it's a matter of semantics but I find the re-framing problematic.

Cyclopea, I think you are right on target with this movement. In my earlier days of psychiatry the TA movement was fading and fading fast. What I did encounter was the fall-out from some of the die-hard practitioners and their loyal believers. While this concept may serve as an etiology for what might motivate responses it hardly addresses the vital area of what we now call brief therapy. Yes, understanding the causes of responses may be good, however, one has to operate within the confines of the not so traditional psychoanalytic model that takes enormous amounts of time and questionable efficacy. (ouch)
It's true! Psychoanalysis is famously long-term and ineffective!

With that said...Berne emphasized the influence of the ego states of Parent, Adult, and Child on a person's interactions with others. The Parent ego state relates to limit-setting and nurturing.
True, but what is that really? The fascist/nurturer: is that really a key component of the human psyche: "Fascist Nurturer"? Not feeling it, lol

The Adult ego state is concerned with reality testing and estimating probabilities in transactions with the outside world. AS RELATES to the fulfillment of one's success desires.

The Child ego state comprises the feelings, wishes, and adaptations actually experienced in childhood.But what is that exactly? Are children really that easily categorized? Have our feelings as youth been scientifically established as weak, needy, subservient, dependent, reactive? Not sure about that...

Most outcomes of an exchange are decided by ulterior transactions, psychological responses that are outside the awareness of the participants. People play games, adopting the role of Persecutor, Rescuer, or Victim and using ulterior transactions in such a way that everyone loses. I like your comment below about homeostasis. Homeostasis can sometimes be a failing proposition, but importantly, a stable one. lol.
Treatment (?) focuses on feelings analysis, script analysis, and stroking (stimulating and recognizing other human beings). OMG I forgot about the whole "strokes" terminology-lmao.
Feelings may be simple reactions, feelings from the past reactivated by a stimulus in the present, or indulgements or displaced feelings that are a backdrop in today's scene of living. I will not ramble on any more because I think this paints the landscape ot TA.So cool to hear your impressions as a professional! Thank you!

As it 'fit in' during the all about self-discovery period I find it not to be an effective model in today's arena. I have a very simple take on a model such as this and it has served me well to keep me out the court room. LOL.
People generally come to a therapist because they have experienced a crisis - or, something has shook up their homeostasis...it can be the carpe diem that invokes fertile ground for change, correct? I, as an ethical therapist would never take a patient through such an ordeal to much later get to the here and now issue. Patient's generally are fragile. If the patient's ego was healthy I probably would not be seeing them. To me, it takes a well grounded therapist, a well grounded individual to reach any level of efficacy through TA. In fact, left in unseasoned therapist's hands this could be deadly. One cannot 'regress' a patient when the patient presents for help. The timing is just wrong.
So true. The power imbalance between "need help" and "helpee" is profound, plus the whole transference thing (if one follows Freud).

I look forward to hearing AtLastHome's and Dapperbutch's take on TA. At this point in my career - which I guard defensively - I would not apply TA although some of the basic tenets can be extrapolated to build on a sensical, ethical approach that is well blended with applicable models that provide our patient's with the optimal care in a time-constrained system. Enlargements/emphasis mine!

~ Socialjustice_fsu

What a great post! I am not at all educated in the field but have always had an interest in cultic "other"/"new" ideologies- and to me that is what Transitional Analysis (among many others from that era) is- an ideology, not a social or psychiatric or even pseudoscience. These self-actualization philosophies all work to some extent. They are functional systems for understanding life. They all work to some extent and are authentic pragmatic systems of coping, whether Transactional Analysis or Reverend Moon or Ram Dass or Elizabeth Claire Prophet or Catholicism or Islam or Oprah.
This whole discussion points to the distinction- if any- between Philosophy and Science. Freud attempted a theory of mental science. Philosophical or cultic systems use formulaic methods to impose order on the complex mysteries of life and humanity, usually with some degree of pragmatic success. Can one use Transactional Anal-lysis techniques to alter interpersonal exchanges? Certainly. Is this alteration more authentic than that altered by the "moonies" or "born agains" or "fundamentalist" muslims or whatever? Debatable.
What all these philosophies have in common is "ME". The success of "ME". The superiority of "ME". They are all personal success ideologies no different than late night real estate infomertials. As such they have no relation to science, social or otherwise.
P.S. Sell Amway!
lol

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by socialjustice_fsu

I look forward to hearing AtLastHome's and Dapperbutch's take on TA. At this point in my career - which I guard defensively - I would not apply TA although some of the basic tenets can be extrapolated to build on a sensical, ethical approach that is well blended with applicable models that provide our patient's with the optimal care in a time-constrained system.

~ Socialjustice_fsu

I agree with the above sentiment.

Sorry, I don't really have anything else to add to the thread on this topic because you covered my thinking about it right here! <pretend there is a "thumbs up" smilie and it is placed here>

I did write you a quick PM on it, though.

[Lynn]

My strongest training as a therapist is in the various brief, strategic models based on linguistic theories and on the significance of the relationship, itself, as the vehicle for healing. I had a great teacher who talked about training like a samurai. He said, learn the techniques flawlessly and then forget them and just be in the moment. I have found this to be very useful. As far as TA is concerned, I think it's an outdated approach which mainly restates older theories into "hip" language. On the other hand, some clients find it useful as a metaphor to validate their own perceptions of what they're doing, or what they're seeing in their own lives. I have been known to draw the little circles and arrows, which is, I'm sure, just a rudimentary way of understanding TA.

[Gemme]

I remember discussing TA in high school and some of my psych classes in college. I actually found it beneficial in one on one communication. I know most feel it's outdated but I think, in some situations and for some people, it can still be a relevant technique. I wouldn't suggest someone use it solely as their method of analysis though.

On another note, I find the use of massage oil in the picture of the two men in bed together unnecessary.