For the T-Femmes and SOFFAs...

[julieisafemme]

Ok I know I am annoying but I just wanted to clarify that I am not dismissing or jumping on Bit or Dylan. I LOVE Dylan. He is my good buddy. We don't always agree and that is ok. Bit is a wonderful poster and I have learned a lot from her. I want it to be ok for us to ask questions and engage in debate as long as we are respectful. I feel like that has been the case thus far. I am sorry if anything I have said has seemed not respectful or mean.

Some days I am really lonely and worn down. The reality is that finding a cohesive trans community where everyone identifies like me is not going to happen. I am open to and want to talk to all partners of trans people. Some people are stealth. Some are not. Some people pass. Some do not. I need support so I can be the best support to my partner. I am hoping that we can all feel safe and comfortable posting and sharing here.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Ok I know I am annoying but I just wanted to clarify that I am not dismissing or jumping on Bit or Dylan. I LOVE Dylan. He is my good buddy. We don't always agree and that is ok. Bit is a wonderful poster and I have learned a lot from her. I want it to be ok for us to ask questions and engage in debate as long as we are respectful. I feel like that has been the case thus far. I am sorry if anything I have said has seemed not respectful or mean.

Some days I am really lonely and worn down. The reality is that finding a cohesive trans community where everyone identifies like me is not going to happen. I am open to and want to talk to all partners of trans people. Some people are stealth. Some are not. Some people pass. Some do not. I need support so I can be the best support to my partner. I am hoping that we can all feel safe and comfortable posting and sharing here.

I hear you, Julie, but, sometimes, I need support just for me--just for ME.

I've enjoyed reading everyone's responses to this thread.


Thank you to one and all and especially to Rainbow for starting the thread!

[firie]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Ok I know I am annoying but I just wanted to clarify that I am not dismissing or jumping on Bit or Dylan. I LOVE Dylan. He is my good buddy. We don't always agree and that is ok. Bit is a wonderful poster and I have learned a lot from her. I want it to be ok for us to ask questions and engage in debate as long as we are respectful. I feel like that has been the case thus far. I am sorry if anything I have said has seemed not respectful or mean.

Some days I am really lonely and worn down. The reality is that finding a cohesive trans community where everyone identifies like me is not going to happen. I am open to and want to talk to all partners of trans people. Some people are stealth. Some are not. Some people pass. Some do not. I need support so I can be the best support to my partner. I am hoping that we can all feel safe and comfortable posting and sharing here.

Me too! I wanted to say that I adore you! And hate that you feel lonely and down! And I so hear you! In my me opinion, I don't think you can talk this out with a great many gay and lesbian people, they maybe don't get it, and that's okay, as that's not a sentiment that's meant to war, but just be truthful. We went and listened to a Q&A by Miss Majors and her stance is that the trans community has to separate itself from the GLB community (which is difficult) in order to reach its own goals, as the GLB community has very different goals and this often conflicts a great deal (and perhaps why there is always in-fighting and really protective, however attacking stances, back and forth between primarily gay and trans communities). Yet this makes for a lonelier existence in ways, because despite befriending whoever, you really can't connect on certain issues with people unless they too are experiencing just that and that is really difficult to find, I think because of the diversity, you noted, within the trans community. So what does one do?

I am rambling, but I wish we had more groups for significant others to just talk. I don't know about the labels discussion, as I am really done with labels lately. And also I just hands down believe that self-identity is self-identity and that potential for empowerment loses personal and political power when folks try to slice it all up. Yeah, I think anyone can be anything they want, and that is that. However, a person's actions perhaps are more important to critique if any actual change is going to come from the issues one has with one's behavior. And as with any other id, transensual is going to be what it is to any given person. Objectification is going to feel objectifying depending on how a person feels in whatever situation is objectifying. Relationships don't work if objectification is a problem two people cannot get past, that seems to be a given.

I think too, again, you have conflicting interests in the GLB and Trans communities, perhaps. Or maybe this is just me, but it feels that way certainly. I can't identify from a lesbian context--I am not a lesbian and to claim the identity is disrespectful and privileged to do so. I can't identify or relate to lesbians who do date males, as I can't imagine the dilemma there for certain couples with respect to that identity--it is a challenge I imagine in a number of ways. I date guys, always have, and am not pansexual in any sense. I do get frustrated with it often being assumed that I am omni-or pansexual because of my femme identity. I also get frustrated with it being assumed that I am inherently lesbian when I am not. That is not in anyway a diss to lesbians, I just can't fit into the identity, because even the occasional times I have dated females, well, it didn't work. I know this about myself, despite how heteronormative it feels/is and despite how it situates me in the queer community.

I am really tired, too, of utilizing the internet for information. I have a busy schedule and only spend a few hours a week online. I want a more social avenue, really. Some girlfriends who can lunch and talk this stuff out. So move here, k? Or we will maybe move there?

I ask you, or anyone, do you have any groups? What are they like? Are they helpful? I have had a hell of time finding them here, and nothing that is significant other specific. Because I would like to bond with other partners if possible, as I think that would be healthy and helpful. Just me. If I have the time, at some point, I may very well start a group. As prevalent as the trans community is in Austin, it's not very visible--seems to work a great deal behind the scenes and understandably so. Gender variance is one thing, and there is a lot of visibility for the gender queer here, but again, that doesn't exactly fit us, when it comes to just getting social acquaintances that get where Dylan and I are coming from. For me, there are femme groups, but that doesn't really hit the nail on the head either, and I am really frustrated with femme anyway lately, as a label for me. It feels restrictive, is difficult to bond in, and well, doesn't really empower me or fit me anymore. Dylan and I have been contemplating moving, and even to Houston, because there is a larger community there, and more resources. Austin is really restrictive in a great many ways, because it isn't urban enough to have a great deal of non-profit agency, per se for your smaller "minorities" despite its claiming that it does so. There isn't even really a GLBT center here, per se. Austin also purports to be so "queer" friendly that we all just intermix and live as Austinites, which is just simply not true. Austin kind of approaches race that way too, failing to remind itself that it still segregates daily. We would love to get out of Texas but timing for us on that just makes it impossible at this point in time--I have a new job and Dylan is all over the place with work. Again, sorry, I think I am rambling.

I don't know, it can be frustrating, right?

[julieisafemme]

I so hear you too. I really want to say that I hear you and see you. Your post and others here really highlights how differently partners identify, interact and look at themselves and their partners.

Lesbian does fit me. So does femme. But I am so new to this world and really don't know how it all manifests for me. I came out and then met my partner. All of a sudden I was defined by who I am with. I'm not sure what that means! It's been a little frustrating.

I am going to start in a once a month partner support group next month. I am excited. Not all of the partners identify as a femme or even queer. So I guess this is what I have been trying to say about the transensual femme identity and trying to be aware to some trans men and women that might not be something they understand or feel comfortable with.

I would love to be part of a Yahoo group or maybe a list from this site for partners.

I want to ask and think about all of the hard questions in a safe space. I don't care how anyone identifies. As long as you are a partner then I am open to that. I remember at the conference we went to I sat and talked with a butch partner and we had lots in common that we could discuss even though we are obviously different in how we identify. No one asked me how I identified at this conference.

Ok now I am rambling!!!! I am glad you posted here firie.

Originally Posted by firie

Me too! I wanted to say that I adore you! And hate that you feel lonely and down! And I so hear you! In my me opinion, I don't think you can talk this out with a great many gay and lesbian people, they maybe don't get it, and that's okay, as that's not a sentiment that's meant to war, but just be truthful. We went and listened to a Q&A by Miss Majors and her stance is that the trans community has to separate itself from the GLB community (which is difficult) in order to reach its own goals, as the GLB community has very different goals and this often conflicts a great deal (and perhaps why there is always in-fighting and really protective, however attacking stances, back and forth between primarily gay and trans communities). Yet this makes for a lonelier existence in ways, because despite befriending whoever, you really can't connect on certain issues with people unless they too are experiencing just that and that is really difficult to find, I think because of the diversity, you noted, within the trans community. So what does one do?

I am rambling, but I wish we had more groups for significant others to just talk. I don't know about the labels discussion, as I am really done with labels lately. And also I just hands down believe that self-identity is self-identity and that potential for empowerment loses personal and political power when folks try to slice it all up. Yeah, I think anyone can be anything they want, and that is that. However, a person's actions perhaps are more important to critique if any actual change is going to come from the issues one has with one's behavior. And as with any other id, transensual is going to be what it is to any given person. Objectification is going to feel objectifying depending on how a person feels in whatever situation is objectifying. Relationships don't work if objectification is a problem two people cannot get past, that seems to be a given.

I think too, again, you have conflicting interests in the GLB and Trans communities, perhaps. Or maybe this is just me, but it feels that way certainly. I can't identify from a lesbian context--I am not a lesbian and to claim the identity is disrespectful and privileged to do so. I can't identify or relate to lesbians who do date males, as I can't imagine the dilemma there for certain couples with respect to that identity--it is a challenge I imagine in a number of ways. I date guys, always have, and am not pansexual in any sense. I do get frustrated with it often being assumed that I am omni-or pansexual because of my femme identity. I also get frustrated with it being assumed that I am inherently lesbian when I am not. That is not in anyway a diss to lesbians, I just can't fit into the identity, because even the occasional times I have dated females, well, it didn't work. I know this about myself, despite how heteronormative it feels/is and despite how it situates me in the queer community.

I am really tired, too, of utilizing the internet for information. I have a busy schedule and only spend a few hours a week online. I want a more social avenue, really. Some girlfriends who can lunch and talk this stuff out. So move here, k? Or we will maybe move there?

I ask you, or anyone, do you have any groups? What are they like? Are they helpful? I have had a hell of time finding them here, and nothing that is significant other specific. Because I would like to bond with other partners if possible, as I think that would be healthy and helpful. Just me. If I have the time, at some point, I may very well start a group. As prevalent as the trans community is in Austin, it's not very visible--seems to work a great deal behind the scenes and understandably so. Gender variance is one thing, and there is a lot of visibility for the gender queer here, but again, that doesn't exactly fit us, when it comes to just getting social acquaintances that get where Dylan and I are coming from. For me, there are femme groups, but that doesn't really hit the nail on the head either, and I am really frustrated with femme anyway lately, as a label for me. It feels restrictive, is difficult to bond in, and well, doesn't really empower me or fit me anymore. Dylan and I have been contemplating moving, and even to Houston, because there is a larger community there, and more resources. Austin is really restrictive in a great many ways, because it isn't urban enough to have a great deal of non-profit agency, per se for your smaller "minorities" despite its claiming that it does so. There isn't even really a GLBT center here, per se. Austin also purports to be so "queer" friendly that we all just intermix and live as Austinites, which is just simply not true. Austin kind of approaches race that way too, failing to remind itself that it still segregates daily. We would love to get out of Texas but timing for us on that just makes it impossible at this point in time--I have a new job and Dylan is all over the place with work. Again, sorry, I think I am rambling.

I don't know, it can be frustrating, right?

[julieisafemme]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I hear you, Julie, but, sometimes, I need support just for me--just for ME.

I've enjoyed reading everyone's responses to this thread.


Thank you to one and all and especially to Rainbow for starting the thread!

I agree! I just see the support I get as a partner as very specific and important to the health of my relationship. I get support for me in a variety of ways that are specific to certain parts of my life, like as a mom or as working woman. I guess I am more compartmentalized!

[Bit]

{{{{{{{{{{{Julie}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I'm glad you were okay during the earthquake. My apologies for taking so long to answer you--I kept timing out when I tried to sign in, and finally decided just to wait until after the server migration was complete.

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Well Bit I can't go into the particulars as the rules of the workshops were what was shared was private.

That isn't what I asked, hon. I only asked if they gave concrete examples, you know, "this and such happened to me last month" or whatever. I don't have any need to know WHAT happened to them, only to know IF something concrete happened.

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

I am not quite clear on why you are invested in negating what was shared by these trans men and women?

I have no interest in negating anyone, honey. I was asking you for information. I was asking you if your experience listening to them talk about fetishizing matched mine or not... because my personal experience is that only one Transman had any concrete example of being fetishized, and all the rest of them who threw the accusation at me said that what was fetishizing was merely that I was attracted to them at all. They said it was fetishizing for me to be attracted to a Transman because I am not a straight woman.

In other words, it was not their personal experiences of being fetishized that were driving the accusation--and I never heard these particular Transmen give any concrete examples of being fetishized--it was their belief that "only a straight woman can properly love a Transman" that led them to say "all Transensual Femmes are therefore fetishists."

This bothers the hell out of me and it hurts like hell too, so that's why I asked you: is this your experience also, or is your experience different? Did the Transmen you listened to give concrete examples of being fetishized by Transensual Femmes, or were they talking about a belief that only a straight woman could love them properly without fetishizing them?

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

This thread is for transensual femmes as well as SOFFAs. I am a SOFFA. A transensual butch could be a SOFFA. I think the discussion should be for all who love and support gender variant people.

Of course you are, honey; all of us who are either partners or supporters can call ourselves SOFFAs. *kinda puzzled; you already knew that, right?* I'm not sure why you feel left out of this thread, why you need to say out loud that you belong here. This thread was started for everyone who is an ally of some kind or a partner of anyone who is Transsexual.

I repeat to you, there is no need for you to take on a label that you don't feel comfortable with. Other people don't have the right to pigeonhole you for easy identification by slapping the Transensual Femme label on you. You choose what makes you comfortable, what fits right for you.

Not only are there Transensual Butches--I noticed you mentioned that in another post--but I am married to one. I would NEVER in a million years say that Gryph "fetishizes" any of his past partners, whether they were Butches, Transmen, or Transwomen. I will say that he sees who a person is and who a person can be, and offers his support for their journey.

In that, I think he is no different from the majority of us who partner with Transpeople. I think that is something the majority of us all can do, and are doing, no matter what our labels might be. You might choose a different way to describe yourself than I do, or than he does, but in the end we are more alike than different, and what matters is who and how we love, rather than what people call us.

[Jess]

OK. I am remiss in my queerspeak. I have been around for years and have seen the term SOFFA but never knew what it stood for.

Someone toss and old dog a bone here?
Thanks.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Jess

OK. I am remiss in my queerspeak. I have been around for years and have seen the term SOFFA but never knew what it stood for.

Someone toss and old dog a bone here?
Thanks.

Significant Others, Friends, Family and Allies.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Significant Others, Friends, Family and Allies.

Thank you kindly!

[Soft*Silver]

you know, I F**king hate labels. I come from a time when the word LESBIAN wasnt even spoken out loud and now we are cyberbating over what we should call ourselves when we look in a mirror.

I am an old crow. Silver hair and wrinkles. I have seen alot happen over my 5+ decades in the rainbow culture. This generation of LGBTQ is going to go down in history/herstory as the one who out-defined themselves. This generation is so out, that they need to cloak their visibility (an oxi-moron, I know) with words embodied with massive power, so the labels are minutely defined. These labels then begin to look like carefully cut precious diamonds. Such value, such worth...so priceless are these labels....that we will gnash and tear apart each selection so that the evolution of the labels will be true to who we are..individually and as a rainbow culture.

well, go right ahead. But dont rain on my parade while you do this.

I am a femme, in a relationship with someone who considers himself TG moving to FtM. When he is done transitioning and living fully as the male he is, we will be living a heterosexual lifestyle.

He has it easy with labels. I, on the other hand, do not feel so lucky. I am a lesbian who has been told I should call myself queer. I just hate that word. Its fine for the young ones to use it, but it doesnt seem to go all that well with my cane and flat shoes. You should have seen my family when I told them the "word of the day" for me is queer. Their eyes bugged out. Somehow Aunt Bea doesnt look like a queer...lol. When my daughter is asked what I am, she simply says "mom"...sometimes we forget the answer isnt always in the direction of the question. Sometimes its in the direction of the answer-er.


This is what it boils down to for me. When I go to my gynocologist and she asks me if I am sexually active and I say yes...do I go into the whole damn orgasmic history of me falling in love with a transman?

No. I just say I am.

I came here because its the only thread I have seen on three sites for femmes who are involved with FtM/TG folks. Thats me. THATS who I am. And I need the support of other femmes who are involved with FtM/TG folks. You all can argue till the cows come home over what label needs to pasted on me, while I sit here and wait for someone to start talking about support...and if no one does, then I will just move on....

just my 2cents worth...

[SFFemmePrincess]

Originally Posted by softness

I came here because its the only thread I have seen on three sites for femmes who are involved with FtM/TG folks. Thats me. THATS who I am. And I need the support of other femmes who are involved with FtM/TG folks.

I'm glad you came here, and I am glad for everyone else who has come here.

Thank you for your post, I think it's about time we/I brought this thread back to where it started and that was a place for support.

So I was wondering how other femme's have navigated the family when it comes to coming out to them about your relationship with a Trans Guy. I have found it difficult because it's almost like coming out all over again. In some cases, just when my family was getting used to the whole lesbian thing, now I'm throwing something even harder for them to understand at them. So what has that been like for you??

[julieisafemme]

I came out to my whole family and all of my friends as a lesbian. Some months went by, I left my marriage and started on my own. Then I met my partner. I had to tell my family about the wondeful person I was dating who uses male pronouns. Well that did not go over so well. My Mom said "couldn't you have just brought home a nice girl?" My Dad had a huge problem with it. That hurt a lot. Things are much better now, a year later. Everyone has met my partner and can see what a wondeful man he is. They don't understand it, but they are over the initial shock.

[SFFemmePrincess]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

I came out to my whole family and all of my friends as a lesbian. Some months went by, I left my marriage and started on my own. Then I met my partner. I had to tell my family about the wondeful person I was dating who uses male pronouns. Well that did not go over so well. My Mom said "couldn't you have just brought home a nice girl?" My Dad had a huge problem with it. That hurt a lot. Things are much better now, a year later. Everyone has met my partner and can see what a wondeful man he is. They don't understand it, but they are over the initial shock.

Yeah, my family was kinda confused about the whole thing. I've been a out as a lesbian for ten years and it has only been in the last year or so that I started dating folks that used male pronouns. My parents were pretty ok with it, it took them a while, and they still slip sometimes, but they try. They're whole thing is that they just want me to be happy and if he makes me happy, then they're good. My brother and sister have a harder time because they don't understand the concept. My brother pretty much ignores the trans topic all together and my sister is trying. She asked me yesterday if I was straight. I explained to her how my identity works and how I feel about it. She seems to be catching on. She is really good about the whole pronoun thing too. It has been a challenge though...

[Princess4u]

Originally Posted by Hudson

Hands down, one of THE best trans ally posts EVER. Everrr. Love you for this, C.

I feel like I have been locked away in this obscure little world of loving only butches but secretly desiring both butches and transmen. I am not only learning that there are all of these labels for all of us and we get so caught up in them, but that there is a community of femmes and transmen willing to express themselves so openly. Hence why I want to thank you all for posting on this thread.

Many years ago I dated someone who was pre-transgender and it never crossed my mind what that met to him. Until many years later we met up again and his transition was complete and he offered to re-transition back to butch as to be with me. Then is when it hit me or so I thought...omg femmes are gay and we are only supposed to be with butch women. For years after that I couldnt understand and I felt wrong for being attracted to both transmen and butch. I thought am I straight, am I gay and why does it matter? I feel very honoured to have many transmale friends and I dont feel like they are butch but men. Am I wrong in saying I am lesbian if I also am attracted to transmen? How does this make them feel because they are straight?

And just as a side note, that person I dated...the reason we didnt work out wasnt to do with his transitioning. To me that was normal, it just made sense to me why he would want to transition. There were other reasons involved which sadly to say were drugs. To be honest, I miss him (the non drug user part). He treated me better than anyone in my entire life. And for him to feel like he needed to transition back to female broke my heart. Because I already cared so deeply for him. But I just cant tolerate someone being altered all the time on substances.

I hope I havent been disrespectful to anyone. I feel like I have kept these questions inside for so long I feel wrong for even writing them down. I just want to understand and to feel ok with me. I suppose ironically its almost like someone feeling they are gay/lesbian and trying to live the staight life when you desire something else. How ironic.

Thank you for your time and interest. And thank you for starting this thread.