Expectations of FTMs/transsexed men (Dylan's thread)

[Dylan]

ETA by Linus: This thread was created out of this other existing thread (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...ead.php?t=1235) and put as a separate thread to allow it to be discussed on it's own. Enjoy


I also think these 'expectations' put undo pressure on transmen to then BE more 'sensitive' or 'pleasing' or face nasty commentary like, "I would think you'd be more aware of that, being that you used to be a woman". Um, I was never a woman. I may have been female-bodied, but I've never been a woman. Don't expect me to be anything but a man.

Not ALL of us transmen are more sensitive. Don't 'expect' us to be more knowing or more in tune. While aware of social conditioning, some of us picked up the social conditioning of <shock of all shocks> MEN, because we ARE men.

If you think you're getting a 'really masculine woman' or someone who's been 'sensitized' by past experience, you're A) seeing transmen as female, and B) setting yourself up for disappointment if you think this is how all transmen act.

I don't 'get' women anymore than your dad, brother, uncle, or cousin. If you think I'm going to want to 'process' anymore than your dad, uncle, ex husband, brother, etc...you're in for an unpleasant surprise. If you think I'm 'the best of both worlds', we're going to have some problems. If you think I'm going to magically know how to 'read your mind', you're in for another unpleasant surprise. And honestly, if you think any of these things, you're seeing me as 'has been woman'...because these aren't expectations you have of men. EXPECT me to be (your picture of) a man, and I might surprise you, by remembering your birthday. EXPECT me to 'be more sensitive', and you'll be sadly disappointed.


Dylan

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by TenderKnight

Hmmm.. what attracts me to transguys? (Yesss.. I'm a very BI transguy, lol)

Well, first of all, most of them *get* it.. The body image thing, the hormones, all of it.. I don't have to explain about any of that.. Notice, i said "most".. I had a hook up recently, a transguy that has been on hormones for years.. He kept telling me that he was straight and only dated females, but that I was soooo hot and how he'd wanted into my pants for months.. We get to doing the ditty and he keeps telling me how straight he is and wants to play with my "titties" and "pussy".. lol.. Yeah, dude was confused.. On a side note, didn't let that lil guy sleep until i was well and done. LOL

My point with that story? Not all transguys are these wonderfully evolved beings that have every quality that anyone could want because they lived both sides of the fence. It just doesn't happen that way. All people are people, no matter if they are Mr transgender avenger or Ms ignorant polly in buttitch, nc..

I got side tracked, didn't I? Dear dear.. ok, so, what makes me hot for transguys *grins* Hair.. Love body and face hair.. The smell.. Love that *man* smell.. Most transguys that I continue to have relations with know how to treat my cock and my man cunt.. did I mention body hair? Ohhhh yeah!

So, that is my very "gay" in put on this subject

-Tony, who was also sneezed on and farted on by that a for mentioned straight transman.. No shit.. it's true! lmao (worst hook up.. EVER)

PS- the sneezing and farting? TOTALLY non consentual awww..

omg that is funny as shit. I would love to be a fly on the wall in your world sometime. I think its very cool how candid, open and honest you are.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I personally am not the slightest bit surprised that a queer femme would have a preference for someone associated with her queer community (which wouldn't be the same as the gay male community that a bisexual man would tend to be a part of).

Unless the bisexual male were part of the queer community or part of the bisexual community (which exists)

I don't understand why a bisexual man would *tend* (your word) to be a part of the gay male community.


Dylan

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Unless the bisexual male were part of the queer community or part of the bisexual community (which exists)

I don't understand why a bisexual man would *tend* (your word) to be a part of the gay male community.


Dylan

Shrug. Wasn't my point. Yes there are different types of communities that theoretically a bisexual man could be a part of.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I also think these 'expectations' put undo pressure on transmen to then BE more 'sensitive' or 'pleasing' or face nasty commentary like, "I would think you'd be more aware of that, being that you used to be a woman". Um, I was never a woman. I may have been female-bodied, but I've never been a woman. Don't expect me to be anything but a man.

Not ALL of us transmen are more sensitive. Don't 'expect' us to be more knowing or more in tune. While aware of social conditioning, some of us picked up the social conditioning of <shock of all shocks> MEN, because we ARE men.

If you think you're getting a 'really masculine woman' or someone who's been 'sensitized' by past experience, you're A) seeing transmen as female, and B) setting yourself up for disappointment if you think this is how all transmen act.

I don't 'get' women anymore than your dad, brother, uncle, or cousin. If you think I'm going to want to 'process' anymore than your dad, uncle, ex husband, brother, etc...you're in for an unpleasant surprise. If you think I'm 'the best of both worlds', we're going to have some problems. If you think I'm going to magically know how to 'read your mind', you're in for another unpleasant surprise. And honestly, if you think any of these things, you're seeing me as 'has been woman'...because these aren't expectations you have of men. EXPECT me to be (your picture of) a man, and I might surprise you, by remembering your birthday. EXPECT me to 'be more sensitive', and you'll be sadly disappointed.


Dylan

On the flip side a lot of trans men are going to be sadly disappointed if they expect queer femmes to be exactly like straight women.

[Dylan]

I would really appreciate someone explaining to me how One 'acts like a biomale'


Seriously, Since It's Been Said So Many Times In This Thread,
Dylan

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by BullDog

On the flip side a lot of trans men are going to be sadly disappointed if they expect queer femmes to be exactly like straight women.

Is there a transman in this thread or on this site who has said they expect queer femmes to be exactly like straight women?


Because I'm Not Seeing Your Point,
Dylan...would think ANYONE with expectations is going to be disappointed when dating REAL people

[BullDog]

If a queer femme is to see trans men exactly as they see non-trans men, then in order to be attracted to a trans man she's supposed to be attracted to all men? How does this work if one is queer?

Why are there so many expectations put on queer femmes to understand men (trans and non-trans) in a queer community and not so much the other way around?

[TenderKnight]

Originally Posted by Sachita

omg that is funny as shit. I would love to be a fly on the wall in your world sometime. I think its very cool how candid, open and honest you are.

LOL, thank you.. Yeah, it seems like my life is a sitcom at times.. That's ok, more laugh lines for me

On the topic.. I am enjoying everyone's posts so far.. Love the way folks have been honest and yet not defensive

-Tony

[adorable]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I also think these 'expectations' put undo pressure on transmen to then BE more 'sensitive' or 'pleasing' or face nasty commentary like, "I would think you'd be more aware of that, being that you used to be a woman". Um, I was never a woman. I may have been female-bodied, but I've never been a woman. Don't expect me to be anything but a man.

Not ALL of us transmen are more sensitive. Don't 'expect' us to be more knowing or more in tune. While aware of social conditioning, some of us picked up the social conditioning of <shock of all shocks> MEN, because we ARE men.

If you think you're getting a 'really masculine woman' or someone who's been 'sensitized' by past experience, you're A) seeing transmen as female, and B) setting yourself up for disappointment if you think this is how all transmen act.

I don't 'get' women anymore than your dad, brother, uncle, or cousin. If you think I'm going to want to 'process' anymore than your dad, uncle, ex husband, brother, etc...you're in for an unpleasant surprise. If you think I'm 'the best of both worlds', we're going to have some problems. If you think I'm going to magically know how to 'read your mind', you're in for another unpleasant surprise. And honestly, if you think any of these things, you're seeing me as 'has been woman'...because these aren't expectations you have of men. EXPECT me to be (your picture of) a man, and I might surprise you, by remembering your birthday. EXPECT me to 'be more sensitive', and you'll be sadly disappointed.


Dylan

I am involved with someone who is TG. He is a man. So much so that how his body looks is irrelevant. I have been with cis men. I have been with women. He ain't a woman. He doesn't think like one. He doesn't act like one. He isn't one. He doesn't want to be one. He isn't more sensitive and there isn't some beautiful dual energy with him. If there was I wouldn't be there. Period. Was he socially conditioned as a woman? Yes. Does that make him not from Mars? No.

I think we all go through periods of time when we try out different ID's and try new things to see what works for us. Many TGs and FTMs that I know (and I make it sound like I know 1000s, in reality it's more like 10.) have ID'd differently at different times in their life just like the rest of us. At no time does that change the core of who we are or who they are. For example, I'm an asshole. This is true whether I call myself a sweet girly girl or not - and I'm still an asshole regardless of who I wake up next to.

How I chose to ID has no bearing on his ID. I don't have to explain that or justify it to anyone. We get it. We are what matters at the end of the day.

And if he said to me tomorrow, we are outta this community (in general not BFP specifically) - I would go in a heartbeat - because I have seen just how unwelcoming and just how separatist this community can be when it comes to TG's, male IDs and FTM's. Everyone ELSE can be who they are except for them. Somehow they need to embrace being a woman, even though they don't FEEL that way, otherwise - they lose their queer card.

Trying to be back on topic: I know for me personally I was attracted to his dominance, stubborness and inability to see reason. I <3 meanies.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by BullDog

If a queer femme is to see trans men exactly as they see non-trans men, then in order to be attracted to a trans man she's supposed to be attracted to all men? How does this work if one is queer?

Why are there so many expectations put on queer femmes to understand men (trans and non-trans) in a queer community and not so much the other way around?

Shock of all shocks

Queer does NOT mean lesbian...this is NOT a lesbian community, this is a QUEER community, and QUEER doesn't mean lesbian

I never said anyone is 'supposed to be' attracted to anyone they're not attracted to

I said (basically), don't expect transmen to act a certain way or lump us all together with (gross) stereotypes...there's a big difference between that and what you're saying


You're Mixing My Words And You're Mixing My Words With The Words Of Other Posters,
Dylan

[TenderKnight]

Originally Posted by BullDog

If a queer femme is to see trans men exactly as they see non-trans men, then in order to be attracted to a trans man she's supposed to be attracted to all men? How does this work if one is queer?

Mmmm.. You don't need to be attracted to ALL men.. But, if a queer femme is attracted to me, I would want them to be attracted to me as the man I am and always have been, rather then as someone that was a woman and now looks like a man.. you know?

Why are there so many expectations put on queer femmes to understand men (trans and non-trans) in a queer community and not so much the other way around?

mmmm.. I get your frustration here, and I agree that it isn't fair for the full weight of understanding be put on a femme's shoulders.. I posted in another thread about how I am "relearning" a lot of what I learned about femmes.. Just as a bio guy would have to "relearn" a lot of the stereotypes put out there about what a woman is, isn't and supposed to be..

Just my input.

-Tony

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I personally am not the slightest bit surprised that a queer femme would have a preference for someone associated with her queer community (which wouldn't be the same as the gay male community that a bisexual man would tend to be a part of).

But you haven't told us why you're attracted to Dylan.....

[TenderKnight]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

But you haven't told us why you're attracted to Dylan.....

I think it may be a mutual love of grape soda.. But I could be wrong..

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

But you haven't told us why you're attracted to Dylan.....

I love when you get all two-spirity and third sexed and start asking questions


Femmes Are Just So Sensitive And Caring...Oh, And Great Bakers And Cleaners Too...But They Really Show Off Their Gendered Duality When They Start Asking Questions...It's Just Such A Turn On,
Dylan

[TenderKnight]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I love when you get all two-spirity and third sexed and start asking questions


Femmes Are Just So Sensitive And Caring...Oh, And Great Bakers And Cleaners Too...But They Really Show Off Their Gendered Duality When They Start Asking Questions...It's Just Such A Turn On,
Dylan

You know.. I'm so not going to be a smartass here.. but I will say this.. No one does laundry better then a femme that is bare foot and in the kitchen.. and preggers with our love chile..

But really.. I know a transguy that can fluff and fold like nobody's business!

-Tony, who is totally being a smart ass.. Not all femmes can do laundry the way I like it..

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

But you haven't told us why you're attracted to Dylan.....

Ha, ha. I am attracted to femmes.

Dylan, no I don't think all queers are lesbians.

Tony, I believe I understand what you are saying about seeing you as the man you always have been. I think honoring the journey someone has been on, no matter how they identify or what their gender is, is important. I get puzzled because there are different types of women. Why wouldn't there be different types of men? There are femme women, butch women, straight women, bisexual women, women who do not identify beyond woman, etc etc etc. I am attracted to femme women, not all women. I don't expect a femme who is attracted to butch women to necessarily be attracted to all women.

Some trans men are a part of queer communities and some aren't. Some feel their past growing up as female is an important part of their journey. Some don't.

[Rufusboi]

I've been reading this thread from the beginning and I'm confused about some of the terms. What is the difference between ftm and transman. Some posters seem to be using the two terms separately with different meanings. What does CIS stand for. Sorry to butt in to the thread but I'm finding the discussion very interesting but I get confused in places when it come to terminology.

My understanding, and how I will id when I go on T, is as trans. I would not id as ftm unless I had bottom surgery (genital reconstruction surgery) , which I am not planning to have. But I believe this is not the same way others define ftm. I've had top surgery and the hysterectomy and I've recently decided I will take the next step and take T. Once I take T I would id as trans. Right now I id as stone butch. I think that sometimes all the different terms I see here confuse me, as how I'm defining these terms are different from how the poster is defining them.



Rufus

[Dylan]

So, out of all of the people who've stated 'transmen don't act like *bio*men', no one can tell me how *bio*men act?

I guess too that *bio*men must not be 'sensitive' and 'in touch'

And since when did being 'sensitive' become a 'two spirity' thing? I mean, if your dad is being 'sensitive' is he all of the sudden 'two spirited'? Or is he just being a sensitive guy?

And, um, I've been on dates with a number of men who have held the doors and all o' that...so, since when did that become a 'special thing only transguys do?'

I mean, if I'm out with Mahhh Woman, and she opens the door, does that make her 'two spirity'?

Seriously, when in the HELL did these masculine/feminine social conditionings all of the sudden make anyone else dual gendered? If Mahhh Woman changes the tire, is she all of the sudden 'remembering her roots as a man' or some other b.s.? If my dad cooks dinner is he showing off his 'female' side?


Seriously, Isn't This The Type Of Thing We're Always Bitching About When It Comes To What Is Butch/What Is Femme/How Do You Define High Femme-Low Femme?,
Dylan

[TenderKnight]

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

I've been reading this thread from the beginning and I'm confused about some of the terms. What is the difference between ftm and transman. Some posters seem to be using the two terms separately with different meanings. What does CIS stand for. Sorry to butt in to the thread but I'm finding the discussion very interesting but I get confused in places when it come to terminology.

My understanding, and how I will id when I go on T, is as trans. I would not id as ftm unless I had bottom surgery (genital reconstruction surgery) , which I am not planning to have. But I believe this is not the same way others define ftm. I've had top surgery and the hysterectomy and I've recently decided I will take the next step and take T. Once I take T I would id as trans. Right now I id as stone butch. I think that sometimes all the different terms I see here confuse me, as how I'm defining these terms are different from how the poster is defining them.



Rufus

Hiya, Rufus

Just to give my deffinitions to some of those terms.. FTM is anyone that was born female but is going to or has transitioned to male.. This could be mentally, with hormones, or with all the sugeries.

Transgender is anyone that identifies as other then the "norm" for those born to any one body or sex. This can be a transgender Butch that has no desire to make physical changes, but who identifies as something other then what society terms as "she".

Transsexual is someone that has taken steps to change physically into what thier insides are.. So that the outside matches the inside..

These are *MY* personal deffinitions, and others may have diffrent ones.. Websters may have something totally diffrent still..

CIS is a term used to describe a male that was born male, or a female that was born female.. I have no idea where it came from, I just started hearing it in use about 6 months ago *shrugs*

Hope that helps out a bit and IMHO, whatever terms you are comfortable with, use them.. OWN them *pwn*

-Tony