school experiences for trans folks

[Jesse]

Wishing I could be of assistance here but I was raised in the early 60's and one didn't talk about this sort of thing out loud to any adult where I was raised, back then for fear of being locked away in some rubber room. I tried telling my mom when I was around seven...it was not a pleasant experience to live through.

I do agree that both your daughter and the school need to make sure they are careful in their approach of this situation. Mixing up the lines is a quick solve to that situation and would also allow that child to not stick out like a sore thumb for harassment from the boys. I am also extremely concerned about that child having to use the boys restroom. Little boys do some mean things to other kids in the restroom, especially to those who don't quite fit in. Some schools will offer a separate bathroom for that child to use.

Also as much as I tend to agree that the parents likely already know if this child is this outspoken about their gender, I do feel your daughter may be jeopardizing her position if the parents preferences are not adhered to.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Again, I totally get your point.

Do you really think this kid is stupid enough to run home and say, "At school, I stand in the girls' line?" I'm sure my second grade teacher would hav e gotten in trouble for letting me sit on the boys' side...right after I got a major ass beating. Hence the reason I never told my mother what went on at school. By second grade, transkids know very well how to walk the tightrope with their parents.

The Teacher Can Avoid Pronouns Now, But What's She Going To Do When The Parents Say No Way And Demand She Treat Randy Like A Boy?,
Dylan

I see your points as well, Dylan.

I just think that things have a way of making themselves known and, even if the child doesn't make the parents aware that the school is acknowledging her, other parents or teachers WILL make it known to the parents.

It is a no win situation for a teacher to acknowledge a child's gender without parental knowledge.

If I was teaching a teenager and referred to him as he (despite birth assigned sex); that teenager does NOT tell (due to their awareness of parental negative consequences) but I would have to KNOW that there are SO many other ways the parents WILL find out--a friend will tell, another parent, another teacher, meetings, church, GOSSIP. *Ms. so and so refers to your daughter as Sam!...did you know that ? *

If I don't get the principal AND school board backing and parental support (!)-- my job is in real jeopardy and this is in a country that has far more rights when it comes to these situations.

[SuperFemme]

how traumatic is it going to be for this child when they get to next year and perhaps a church lady teacher who isn't going to follow your daughters lead, softness?

to give something and then take it away seems almost cruel, though that is quite the opposite of intentions.

i would encourage your daughter to look and see if the district has any gender policies. then perhaps a meeting with the principal and school psychologist to implement a plan to get the child through elementary school?

my friend has done that with her child, and surprise surprise this hick town has a gender policy. her daughter (born her son) is referred to by female pronouns and uses the bathroom in the office. luckily there are no locker rooms for p.e., so it is working out so far. she did this against her husbands wishes at first.

i think your daughter is doing a fabulous thing, and i only wish all educators were so compassionate and aware.

[Gayla]

I understand the legal stuff, I really do. Married to a teacher for a long time, etc. etc. so I totally get it.

I read that the child has a gender neutral name so I don't think the teacher has "changed" the child's name. I'm not sure if the teacher has changed pronouns or if the OP did that simple out of respect.

I think there are ways to be inclusive in a classroom environment without the risks. Yes, there are guidelines, but there is also quite a bit of freedom within each classroom. Things like mixing up the lines not on gender, etc. Just the fact that the teacher is at all aware gender issues like this even exist is going to give this student, and all of them really, an advantage.

And maybe, when any of these children get to the next grade level and with a new teacher they may say, "Ms. X didn't make us line up as boys and girls, we just got to line up as people."

I also have to say that I think the level of fear that we experience over doing something "wrong" often keeps very simple things from changing for the good. I would really hate to see her stop doing things that empower all the children in her classroom out of fear that how she interacts with one child may get her in "trouble".

[Soft*Silver]

no, she isnt. She told the child she will keep calling him he, because thats what you do in school, but she knows he believes he is a girl. She seemed very happy with that, from what my kid said. It doesnt take alot to please a kid. Acknowledgement is usually what they need. And for someone to be present with them in their reality...

again, I am pretty sure she talked to the principal. I cant imagine my kid not going to her leader/mentor.

And this principal also knows her/us. My kid went to preschool there for 3 years. They know I am a lesbian and they know Liz and I are quite liberal. The principal didnt care back then and she certainly doesnt care now. She is (from my daughter's account) mentoring her....and my kid is absorbing as much as she can....

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Dylan,
It will not just stop at letting the child go into a certain gender line division. And, if Softness' daughter is referring to this child with female pronouns without the parent's consent? You think THAT is going to go over well? It isn't and Softness' daughter needs to be aware that she is putting her job in jeopardy by making these decisions without Administrative AND parental support.

[Soft*Silver]

even before this became an issue, she was allowing one child at a time to go into the bathroom. Thats why they stood in line in the hallway....

[QUOTE=Tranzman;138110]
I am also extremely concerned about that child having to use the boys restroom. Little boys do some mean things to other kids in the restroom, especially to those who don't quite fit in. QUOTE]

[Soon]

Originally Posted by gayla

I understand the legal stuff, I really do. Married to a teacher for a long time, etc. etc. so I totally get it.

I read that the child has a gender neutral name so I don't think the teacher has "changed" the child's name. I'm not sure if the teacher has changed pronouns or if the OP did that simple out of respect.

I think there are ways to be inclusive in a classroom environment without the risks. Yes, there are guidelines, but there is also quite a bit of freedom within each classroom. Things like mixing up the lines not on gender, etc. Just the fact that the teacher is at all aware gender issues like this even exist is going to give this student, and all of them really, an advantage.

And maybe, when any of these children get to the next grade level and with a new teacher they may say, "Ms. X didn't make us line up as boys and girls, we just got to line up as people."

I also have to say that I think the level of fear that we experience over doing something "wrong" often keeps very simple things from changing for the good. I would really hate to see her stop doing things that empower all the children in her classroom out of fear that how she interacts with one child may get her in "trouble".

I don't want to make Softness' daughter afraid of building an empowering environment for children.

Gayla, you are right there are ways to build inclusivity without opening oneself up to potential trouble (for teacher and future teachers who may not *get* it).

However, if major adjustments are being made without the parents and staff of a school being made aware (this can include social worker, guidance, and administration), it can be a potential issue.


It is possible to be gender neutral in many ways when designing activities and approaching student's; however, if it is getting into serious long term decisions then the school needs to be informed.

And, I think SuperFemme makes a really valuable contribution in that it will not be fair for one teacher to be accepting of this child and then to be levelled by their next year teacher who refuses to acknowledge any aspect of that child's internal sense of themselves.

[Jesse]

Thank you for pointing that out to me...my bad...it's late.

[quote=softness;138123]even before this became an issue, she was allowing one child at a time to go into the bathroom. Thats why they stood in line in the hallway....

Originally Posted by Tranzman

I am also extremely concerned about that child having to use the boys restroom. Little boys do some mean things to other kids in the restroom, especially to those who don't quite fit in. QUOTE]

[Dylan]

One teacher being cool is better than NO teachers being cool.

Transkids by this age have already figured out that the whole world doesn't get it.

It's the ones who are cool who make the difference


Dylan

[Soon]

Originally Posted by softness

no, she isnt. She told the child she will keep calling him he, because thats what you do in school, but she knows he believes he is a girl. She seemed very happy with that, from what my kid said. It doesnt take alot to please a kid. Acknowledgement is usually what they need. And for someone to be present with them in their reality...

again, I am pretty sure she talked to the principal. I cant imagine my kid not going to her leader/mentor.

And this principal also knows her/us. My kid went to preschool there for 3 years. They know I am a lesbian and they know Liz and I are quite liberal. The principal didnt care back then and she certainly doesnt care now. She is (from my daughter's account) mentoring her....and my kid is absorbing as much as she can....

Got it about the pronouns--my mistake.

Glad to hear your daughter is in touch with her principal and, most importantly, trying to best make this child comfortable the time she has her in the classroom.

She sounds like a teacher who is open to making all students feel welcome and that is wonderful.

[Soft*Silver]

what a wonderful set of responses I am getting! This is exactly the kind of stuff that will help her become a good teacher!

First, I am the one who changed pronouns in my post. She does not change pronouns in the classroom. I did so out of courtesy for our own trans community here...

I am not so much worried about how Randy is going to handle not getting the same positive regard in other classes. He is, after all, in 2 or 3 grade. He has had public education before. And he has certainly encountered the phobia of our culture somehow, in someway, at sometime in his life. I agree with Dylan,that one teacher being cool is better than no teacher being cool. But she must be cool and professional!

Someone asked what other things my daughter does re gender in the classroom. She doesnt assign tasks based on gender. Girls dont always clean up and boys dont always do physical stuff. When teams are needed, she includes all genders in each team. She does not allow the word Gay to be used as a slang term. (Especially at that age!) I know it means something very different now, but its still a crudely masked hate term. And yes, a child said it in her class and that lecture was given. There are no girl areas and boy areas..like the pegs that hold their coats and the bins that hold their lunches and show and tell items.


one more thing about my child. When she was in preschool there, they went for a walk one day. The teacher said they were going to go visit father's house. My daughter came home and told me the teacher tried to take her to visit her father (who had abandoned her right after our divorce) but he wasnt home. But they were going to try tomorrow. I was confused...and when I dropped her off the next day I asked the teacher about it. I remember her looking at me like I had said babjfiahsnalal....and then she remembered what this was about...

see, this school sits on a church's property. It use to be their old Sunday School classrooms. The teacher was taking them to see the priest at his house that also sat on the property.

This taught my child (and me) a valuable lesson. Sometimes the most innocent situations can cause major problems.

She isnt trying to be a hero to this kid. She just wants him to feel comfortable in her classroom. Her most significant action has been to just talk to him, one on one, and see what he is thinking and explain to him that she has to do things to accomodate everyone. But she is aware of and acknowledges who "she" is.

I have this story to tell about different classrooms

when she was little, she stayed at my mother's alot. And at my sister's sometimes. And eventually with her father and his new wife after he came back into her life. I had rules...my parents broke all those rules. I broke some of my exes rules. He broke some of mine...it was chaos for a very short time because we all wised up about how crazy we were making her and I had a little talk with her. I said, "different rules for different houses" In other words, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

When she was with me, she lived under my rules, with her dad, his rules, and with my family, their rules. I kinda think kids think like this in general...but we adults had to sit down and figure it all out...

[Gayla]

Originally Posted by Dylan

One teacher being cool is better than NO teachers being cool.

Transkids by this age have already figured out that the whole world doesn't get it.

It's the ones who are cool who make the difference


Dylan

I really wish I could thank you for this more than once.

I remember the cool teachers and I remember the really awful teachers but I don't much recall all of the mediocre, down the middle, play by the rules, didn't make a difference teachers.

The make a difference one's, they made it a point to make sure that I (and probably every one else in their classes) knew I was special to them in some way. It wasn't a huge thing like what's happening in this classroom but it was enough that it got me through the bad teachers.

I can only imagine the impact that this teacher is having on that student.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by Jet

Courage or stupidity. I haven't decided which one I am as yet.

I say COURAGE.


“Courage is the discovery that you may not win, and trying when you know you can lose.” Tom Krause

[Chancie]

Originally Posted by Dylan

One teacher being cool is better than NO teachers being cool.

Transkids by this age have already figured out that the whole world doesn't get it.

It's the ones who are cool who make the difference

Dylan

I agree.

I am a high school teacher, so the issues are different. Also, we talk more explicitly about sex and gender and sexual orientation than I expect in an elementary school. I don't think we always do a great job, but at least it's on the table. There have been several young people who choose gender neutral versions of their names, or who dress in a way that is commonly associated with young men if they are female or young women if they are male. I would never mention this to a parent, though if I thought there was a need, I would certainly check in with their counselor. There are so many ways we impose gender on young people. I don't think any of us have any idea if we haven't made a concerted effort to check in with ourselves. Very few people do that, even the small subset of people here.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Well, my teachers were jerks. I grew up in the 60's as well as Tranzman. I still have a hard time thinking about all of the conversations I had with them as a young transgendered child. Wearing my older's brothers jock strap under my shorts and pants, and holding it up with a ton of my mother's safety pins. I just don't get how all of the signals were missed or rather ignored. I just remember the beatings at home. The hate. The abuse. The fear instilled in my heart and soul.

Sometimes it is best left unsaid. The future is here and now. I sure hope and pray that trans-kids never have to endure what I did. If there is a Hell, I sure was in it.

[Soft*Silver]

I should point out that this is a SUMMER school..not associated with the public school system. It is at a child care center and offers higher grade classes (up to 5th grade) during the summer for working parents.

Its actually the perfect first job for my daughter as a new teacher. She is getting her feet wet in a classroom of her own, with a small number of students in a much more informal setting that a public school. She has daily meetings with the principal and a few of the other teachers (some are teachers from public schools who work there during the summer) have taken her under their wings.

I also have thought about Randy and her apparent comfortableness about her gender ID. She isnt at all fearful of talking about it or asking for her needs to be met. And she is accepting of what my daughter can and cant do for her. So I am thinking she must have some source of acceptance being given to her at home.


I will tell you more when I get to talk to my daughter again...

and again, thank you for all the feedback, suggestions and reps!

[Andrew, Jr.]

For me, it is very hard to relate to a kind teacher. I just remember the teachers I had confided in, and laughed in my face, or would not let me use the boys bathroom, or play kickball or dodgeball with the boys.

In summer school, remember I went to summer school all grades, each and every summer because of my learning disabilities and failing in school. It was a requirement in order to get me thru to the next grade. In other words, I was just passed along for someone else to deal with.

When I confided in teachers with my heart and soul. I thought I was doing the right thing. I never would have thought that it would have blown up in my face as it did. I never would have opened my mouth had I had known that.

If you saw the movie "Blind Side", I am like the simple Michael Oher. But I am not gifted with forgetting the past as he is. I wish I had that.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by softness

I also have thought about Randy and her apparent comfortableness about her gender ID. She isnt at all fearful of talking about it or asking for her needs to be met. And she is accepting of what my daughter can and cant do for her. So I am thinking she must have some source of acceptance being given to her at home.

I don't agree with where you say Randy 'must have some sort of acceptance ...at home'

I talked to my second grade teacher, because she A) listened and B) seemed to understand (or let me say, she didn't judge, call me names, or 'correct me'). I could be 'matter of fact about it', because she was cool. It was the first time anyone bothered to take me seriously, and I had a lot to say. I could also just ask for what I wanted/needed, because I was in second grade, and when you're in second grade you don't really care about asking for what you want/need. I mean, if Mrs. Clifford said 'no', then ok who cares? This could very well be the first time ANY adult has been cool with Randy, and she may just be testing the waters. It's not like eight year olds have the best sense of boundaries, and Randy may truly have no idea what she's 'allowed' to do in this new sense of acceptance. Hell trans adults don't know what the hell they're 'allowed' to do either sometimes. So, I really wouldn't assume that just because Randy is being vocal and expressing herself that she has some sort of acceptance at home. This may very well be the first time anyone has bothered to take her seriously. Trust me, there was absolutely NO acceptance at my home, and I very much pushed Mrs. Clifford's boundaries and was quite vocal in her class because I knew I was safe from harrassment of other kids and gender roles. A phone call home would have ruined all of that...anyone talking to my parents would have fucked it all up.


Dylan

[julieisafemme]

Hi softness. What a wonderful daughter you have! I'm glad to know that there are people in the teaching profession who care about the whole child and can meet them where they are.

I wanted to pass on a link to an excellent resource for educators, families and anyone interested in supporting kids who are transgendered.

http://www.genderspectrum.org/

They ran a conference in Seattle last year at the same time as Gender Odyssey for adults. There is a lot of good information on this site.

Good luck to your daughter in her new profession!

[Soft*Silver]

Julie..what an awesome web site! I am sending it to her tonight! I know she will order the book I just saw there..The Transgendered Childand if she doesnt, she will get it for christmas! Thank you!

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Hi softness. What a wonderful daughter you have! I'm glad to know that there are people in the teaching profession who care about the whole child and can meet them where they are.

I wanted to pass on a link to an excellent resource for educators, families and anyone interested in supporting kids who are transgendered.

http://www.genderspectrum.org/

They ran a conference in Seattle last year at the same time as Gender Odyssey for adults. There is a lot of good information on this site.

Good luck to your daughter in her new profession!