Bravehearts: FTMs who cannot or choose not to medically transition

[Linus]

It's hard in this world to transition but can be even harder when you're not allowed to or choose not to transition. And want to be seen as the gender you truly are and heard as such. Since I know a few FTMs who have been stopped from medically transitioning (and one that has chosen not to medically transition), a support thread for those here on the BFP would be a good thing.

And I called it Bravehearts. I'm not a huge fan of Mel Gibson but to me, it takes a lot of heart and bravery to continue to move forward to present as male when the world has a narrow definition of gender.

[weatherboi]

Here, here!! Cheers to the brave and big hearted!!

[Bit]

I think this is a wonderful thread! So glad you started it!

There are so many ramifications for not medically transitioning. It might be less complicated legally--not having to change paperwork, etc--but oh my, it seems to be so hard on guys who present male and have female ID!! I've known a couple who had a hell of a time with things like medical care and job interviews. Less complicated doesn't mean easy, at all.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Thanks for the thread Linus. I am a guy who has done everything possible, but go on T. I can't because of neurological health problems I have. No doctor will ever give me that rx. The biggest fear they have is that it will raise my bp and cause more problems for me. Those who have met me know I am slow. And writing I am slow you think one thing, but when you meet me, you finally realize what it really truely means. My reality is very different than most.

It brings tears to my eyes knowing that my life will never be complete. Never. To have the mind, body, soul connection is truely a blessing.

Namaste,
Andrew

[Words]

One of the reasons why Blue is my hero is that Hy has chosen to not transition in spite of the obvious advantages of doing so. Yes, Hy is on T, yes, Hy hopes to eventually have top surgery, in both cases, because Hy wants to 'masculinize'. BUT, Hy has no intention of ever IDing as male because Hy isn't male and is happy to live forever in TG (third gendered) land, even if doing that means constantly having to 'explain' Hymself.

That, to me, takes a lot of courage and I am extremely proud of Hym.

Words

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Linus

It's hard in this world to transition but can be even harder when you're not allowed to or choose not to transition. And want to be seen as the gender you truly are and heard as such. Since I know a few FTMs who have been stopped from medically transitioning (and one that has chosen not to medically transition), a support thread for those here on the BFP would be a good thing.

And I called it Bravehearts. I'm not a huge fan of Mel Gibson but to me, it takes a lot of heart and bravery to continue to move forward to present as male when the world has a narrow definition of gender.

Linus, I doubt you initiated this thread to suggest that non-medically transitioned FTMs have a harder road than any other marginalized group. I'm simply responding with the thoughts that popped into my head as a result of your post, hope you don't mind.

It takes a lot of heart and bravery to do/be many things, including, but not exclusively, "to move forward to present as male."

It takes a lot of fortitude to simply be an out homosexual/queer of any stripe.

It takes a lot of spine to be a masculine presenting female - butch - in a world with narrowly defined parameters of what it means to be female.

It takes a lot of energy to be a male identified butch, or non-medically transitioned FTM and have to endure the tossing under the bus (of male privilege) by other butches.

It takes a lot of strength to be femme in a community that is constantly talking about butch, FTM and other masculine identities, which repeatedly places femme in merely a supporting role, and which questions their inclusion in this community when they choose male id'ed or FTM as partners.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

Linus, I doubt you initiated this thread to suggest that non-medically transitioned FTMs have a harder road than any other marginalized group. I'm simply responding with the thoughts that popped into my head as a result of your post, hope you don't mind.

That wasn't the intent. It was simply to give those that cannot or choose not to transition a place to feel welcomed, safe and able to discuss their issues, dreams, challenges without infringing on others. All marginalized groups have challenges. No way does this lessen that.

I appreciate the thoughts and do recognize the challenges that other groups have but perhaps that discussion might serve better in another thread?

[Words]

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

Linus, I doubt you initiated this thread to suggest that non-medically transitioned FTMs have a harder road than any other marginalized group. I'm simply responding with the thoughts that popped into my head as a result of your post, hope you don't mind.

It takes a lot of heart and bravery to do/be many things, including, but not exclusively, "to move forward to present as male."

It takes a lot of fortitude to simply be an out homosexual/queer of any stripe.

It takes a lot of spine to be a masculine presenting female - butch - in a world with narrowly defined parameters of what it means to be female.

It takes a lot of energy to be a male identified butch, or non-medically transitioned FTM and have to endure the tossing under the bus (of male privilege) by other butches.

It takes a lot of strength to be femme in a community that is constantly talking about butch, FTM and other masculine identities, which repeatedly places femme in merely a supporting role, and which questions their inclusion in this community when they choose male id'ed or FTM as partners.

I'm sorry for interjecting with my femme voice again in a thread that's aimed at FtMs but I have to say this.

Although I agree with everything you've said here, I also fully understand why Linus has started this thread and see it not as an attempt to negate the suffering of other groups but to lend support to a particular group. A group that's, after all, as deserving of support and a 'safe space' of their own as any other.

Right?

Words

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Words

One of the reasons why Blue is my hero is that Hy has chosen to not transition in spite of the obvious advantages of doing so. Yes, Hy is on T, yes, Hy hopes to eventually have top surgery, in both cases, because Hy wants to 'masculinize'. BUT, Hy has no intention of ever IDing as male because Hy isn't male and is happy to live forever in TG (third gendered) land, even if doing that means constantly having to 'explain' Hymself.

That, to me, takes a lot of courage and I am extremely proud of Hym.

Words

It does take courage, and huge heart, to live in the middle like that. I'd be really proud of him, too, darlin.

I'm always proud of Butches and Transmen, however they choose to live, whether they're making the best of barriers they simply cannot cross or whether they're blazing trails into new territory. I think life is sometimes so much more difficult than it should be for those whose very existence calls society's shallow gender norms into question, because when you shine the light through the surface and expose the deeper implications of easy gender IDs, most people seem to get really uncomfortable.

I think that's a big part of the pain so many guys have when they need to transition, need to be in all ways men, and are kept from it for whatever reason. Society insists on forcing them (even kicking and screaming!) back into that tiny shoebox labeled "woman, feminine" and I think it does violence to their souls to be erased so completely, rendered so deliberately invisible.

[T D]

Lets face it, life IS hard at times!!

I've ID'd as male for years now. I know that I'm NOT male, but in my heart of hearts there's something that makes me feel that I'm more male than female. So far I have not transitioned because while I'd like some of the male characteristics to be more pronounced in myself, I don't particularly want others. It's a very difficult decision and a fine line between accepting ourselves as we are, and remaking ourselves into what we think we are, want to be, or invision ourself as, etc.

Right now I'm on a huge weight loss kick, and may or may not have top surgery after losing the weight I want to lose. Bascially it all depends on finances honestly. I would most definitely like to be a breastless butch, no doubt about it. Whether or not its feasible is an entirely different story though.

I continue to call myself a butch because visually that's what I am, and even though I feel more male or masculine than not, I'm still a butch at this point. It really feels like a mixed up, jumbled up group of IDs at times, but it's who I am, and well, take me or leave me

Just my 2 cents at the moment

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Linus

That wasn't the intent. It was simply to give those that cannot or choose not to transition a place to feel welcomed, safe and able to discuss their issues, dreams, challenges without infringing on others. All marginalized groups have challenges. No way does this lessen that.

I appreciate the thoughts and do recognize the challenges that other groups have but perhaps that discussion might serve better in another thread?

Originally Posted by Words

I'm sorry for interjecting with my femme voice again in a thread that's aimed at FtMs but I have to say this.

Although I agree with everything you've said here, I also fully understand why Linus has started this thread and see it not as an attempt to negate the suffering of other groups but to lend support to a particular group. A group that's, after all, as deserving of support and a 'safe space' of their own as any other.

Right?

Words

Right. See first sentence.

I unequivocally, and intentionally, stated that I believed Linus was making no attempt to negate the "suffering" (though I take umbrage at that word) of other groups.

Nor was my intent to engage in any further discussion on the matter, merely to state my thoughts as inspired by Linus' words. Thinking inclusively sometimes helps us from becoming myopic.

As an aside, Words, it's my opinion that you and your femme voice, are not "interjecting," but participating.

[violaine]

good afternoon.

interesting thread, thank you

i was thinking of a scenario. if a person lives on an island, and cannot not find a physician to write a prescription, because the one and only local doctor does not support/understand/respect someone's need/desire to transition- and there exist no support groups for like mindedness, that individual will have limited options unless moving off the island is a possibility. for the sake of this entry, let's say the person is financially unable to move, and cannot afford surgery. is the individual not really who they maintain to be then ?

[T D]

Originally Posted by violaine

good afternoon.

interesting thread, thank you

i was thinking of a scenario. if a person lives on an island, and cannot not find a physician to write a prescription, because the one and only local doctor does not support/understand/respect someone's need/desire to transition- and there exist no support groups for like mindedness, that individual will have limited options unless moving off the island is a possibility. for the sake of this entry, let's say the person is financially unable to move, and cannot afford surgery. is the individual not really who they maintain to be then ?

Just my opinion, but everyone is who they believe they are. That is their truth and their reality. That's my take.

[Jet]

I'm going on T to compliment how I feel on the inside. I respect those who ID male (FTM), but choose not to transition regardless of why.

[Andrew, Jr.]

For the name and gender change...personally anyone can change their name legally in Maryland. The gender change on the legal documentation is not so easily done. According to my attorney there is one case pending in the court system now. And it is because the judge in the case is requiring medical documentation of not only hormones, but of top and bottom surgeries. Leave it to Maryland to be a major pain in the ass.

For me, I want both the name and gender change at once because of the financial costs involved.

Btw, I am who I say I am. I dare anyone to tell me otherwise.

Andrew

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by T D

Just my opinion, but everyone is who they believe they are. That is their truth and their reality. That's my take.

TD, I totally agree with you.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by violaine

good afternoon.

interesting thread, thank you

i was thinking of a scenario. if a person lives on an island, and cannot not find a physician to write a prescription, because the one and only local doctor does not support/understand/respect someone's need/desire to transition- and there exist no support groups for like mindedness, that individual will have limited options unless moving off the island is a possibility. for the sake of this entry, let's say the person is financially unable to move, and cannot afford surgery. is the individual not really who they maintain to be then ?

Originally Posted by T D

Just my opinion, but everyone is who they believe they are. That is their truth and their reality. That's my take.

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

TD, I totally agree with you.

Certainly agree but.. I will add one thing: what if everyone else on that island says your or implies not a man? You can believe all you want to who you are but I'd be surprised if it didn't affect you, over a period of time, when you're constantly barraged by opinions other than your own. For some, it's not an issue because they are viewed as their gender to begin with but for others it can be a challenge. Confidence and belief in one's self are huge at pushing this forward.

[weatherboi]

Originally Posted by Linus

Certainly agree but.. I will add one thing: what if everyone else on that island says your or implies not a man? You can believe all you want to who you are but I'd be surprised if it didn't affect you, over a period of time, when you're constantly barraged by opinions other than your own. For some, it's not an issue because they are viewed as their gender to begin with but for others it can be a challenge. Confidence and belief in one's self are huge at pushing this forward.

It is easy to have confidence/belief system chipped away piece by piece when constantly barraged by fear and ignorance. My experince is when I am constantly maintaining good confidence and can't just let it flow naturally it takes away from the growth of my being. My experince living in a conservative area is one of constant reminder of my gender because people here are so fearful of anything different. I attended a wedding a couple weeks ago. Friends of the bride and groom. They have known me long enough to understand I am who I am. I wore a pants suit vest and tie. The night was great. We danced, we sang, and everybody seemed to have a good time. A week later I find out they think I ruined their wedding. They think I was trying to make a political in your face kinda statement. Two days later I was at the local hardware store picking up some tapcon screws and some guys driving through the parking lot called me a dyke and threw a soda at me. LOL My first thought was to yell ...Hey I'm not a fuckin dyke! I didn't though. I don't really care because it happens all the time. My point is sometimes the people we are dictates how we have the experince. Obvious enough right? I can't speak for other people but I know when i am bogged down in the negativity I can't enjoy life no matter what choice/road/path I decide to take. Strategically placing myself in an environment that will support my desired lifestyle is pretty important.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I think it is a huge thing to have the environment of being condusive to transitioning. And that includes online as well.

Andrew

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Right now I cannot transition, but later in the future I will.

Finance is the reason why nothing has been done yet, plus I have alot of searching of myself before I actually do anything.