Jungian Tibetan Buddhism/Native American Spirituality/ and .....

[AtLast]

Like many, several years of my life are filled with spiritual passages. I left Christianity and searched for what might fit for me and ended up with somewhat of a hodgepodge of religious and spiritual thought. As a psychotherapist, the work of theorists in the field studying both Jungian psychology along with Buddism has always fascinated me. Part of this is due to Jung developing his ideas from several disciplines including philosophy, religion, biology, zoology, medicine, anthropolgy and paleontology. Amazing for someone that advanced the study of the unconscious! Then, again, he and Freud as ethnocists (the term was coined by both along with their contemporaries which became European cultural anthropology.

The Jungian concepts of Anima and Animus come up during our discussions of gender as Jung's ideas about gender were not of the binary. Interesting, given the time era he lived in and all of the Freudian influences in his studies.

Now that we are able to read Jung's Red Book, how much he was influenced by Eastern philosophy and spirituality is evident. He wrote this after the big break from Freud, but it was never published until last year.

I am wondering if any other members want to engage in discussion about Jung and Buddism, other spiritual thought such as Native American beliefs?

Some titles that I find interesting are (all are available at amizon.com- there is even a contest to win a hardcover copy of his Red Book!)-


The Essence of Jung's Psychology and Tibetan Buddhism: Western and Eastern Paths to the Heart

Radmila Moacanin

Buddhism and Jungian Psychology by J. Marvin Spiegelman

Jung and Eastern Thought (Suny Series, Transpersonal & Humanistic Psychology) by Harold G. Coward

Jung and Eastern Thought: A Dialogue with the Orient by J. J. Clarke

A book going into Jung, psychotherapy and Native American thought is-

Dancing Between Two Worlds: Jung and the Native American Soul (Jung and Spirituality) [Paperback]
Fred R. Gustafson

On Hindu thought-

http://spirituality-sparks.com/2010/...ddhist-anatta/

Jung’s “Self,” Hindu Atman and Buddhist Anatta
Madhu B. Wangu

Please add to the list! Winter always brings out reading more than usual, so, anything offered to take a look at would be great! Lets just enjoy this- I have no intention of arguing about what anyone believes in terms of their spirituality- or lack of it.

[Nat]

I would LOVE to get my hands on Jung's Red Book - it sounds really neat.

I'm currently listening to back-episodes of jungian's podcast which I really get a lot out of. Up until the last few years, I'd been exposed a lot more to Freud's ideas (which I find pretty fascinating really), but Jung is really compelling to me on a different level. I really appreciate his ideas on the anima/animus and the conscious/unconscious and the idea of the shadow aspect and projection. Once I finish listening to the podcast, I'm going to go back and start reading more. Right now my reading time is devoted to, well, the internet, but also to working toward a future job change. Podcasts I can listen to on the job, so they've become my main source of info lately.

I also listen to Zencast pretty regularly, which I really do like.

Jung is pretty revered in the Pagan world as well.

[AtLast]

An article I came across had a few things about organized religion (especially related to many feelings I have about the right-wing Christian zealots today) that are interesting.

http://epages.wordpress.com/2009/04/...nswer-to-evil/


Couple of quotes from it-

Jungians tend to say that sanctimonious individuals and related organizations project their own dark impulses onto others instead of facing the evil within themselves.

Jungians also tend to imply that the spirituality of organized religion only goes as deep as the persona,³ where individuals play a superficial role of holiness for the sake of appearances and to feel good about themselves.

The article is among some relating to culture and Jung's use of universal symbology/ethnological concepts. LOL, I always get a Jung rush when I read Dan Brown!

[MasterWolf]

This thread title caught my eye because, as I try to describe to others my spiritual philosophies in concise fashion, I frequently use the same combination of words....chuckle

I'm currently refining a workshop I have given on archetypes and looking at them in slightly different application to how they come in to play as we respond to our world from various states of 'consciousness'. (some interesting ideas tucked away in some of David Hawkins work)

My MS is in Radical Psychology & I have spent the past 10 years or so exploring my spiritual path, adopting different 'tools' for my spiritual tool box, and recently have found myself pondering the question of what draws people to commit the time, money and energy to either a spiritual or religious path.

I started a discussion on facebook the other day after looking at some diagrams that were 'examples' of critical thinking models in a critical thinking text book. The two examples shown were the Fear Model, (though I would argue critical thinking is, by definition, impaired by fear), and the Christian Model.

The Christian Model stated that its 'purpose' was "to save my soul" and I was aghast and wondering just how many Christians would agree that was their primary purpose when they applied 'christian critical thinking' to create a life view for themselves. Didn't get many responses but the ones I did, publicly and privately, all said that was definitely in there in the top purposes....

Which makes me go...hmmm...how is that any different from the fear model because it is fear based....

Im rambling, I apologize. Its been a long week and I am recovering from surgery and a bit medicated.

in peace & leather

Wolf

[Passionaria]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

An article I came across had a few things about organized religion (especially related to many feelings I have about the right-wing Christian zealots today) that are interesting.

http://epages.wordpress.com/2009/04/...nswer-to-evil/

This was a really interesting Article, AL Home (((HOMEY))). I am pretty sure that understanding my shadow side has been the theme of the past ten years of my life. And I can giggle over the fact that it is a subject that has gone from fear, to intrigue.

In my experience how we view our shadow self is cultural, as well as religion based. In some cultures the shadow self is common knowledge and rituals and teachings are handed down to integrate and understand both the dark and the light within us.

As an American and a Christian, I was taught to fear evil. Fear it to the point where I tried very hard to do only good, and could not bear to believe that evil was inside of me. And yet, darkness came looking for me anyway, shattering my world view, leaving me to dance with the Devil. (Metaphorical he, Devil, I just need to be able to visualize it to understand the experience.)It is too long of a story to bore you all with here but in short "he" used my own self righteous beliefs to mirror my darkness, and enjoyed watching my beliefs crack. He's really a bit comical, and holds his own compassion and wisdom. Coyote medicine, Elegua. And it was funny to see my own hypocrisy, all I could do is laugh and shake my head. Laugh at the audacity of my own belief system, telling me I was not subject to the laws of the universe. Humbling. Now it appears that good and evil are opposite ends of the same continuum. They can't exist without one another. That is what yin and yang are, opposites ends of a thread, the tension of opposites interacting that dances the universe alive. I think this experience in a way reflects what you quoted from the article.

"Jungians also tend to imply that the spirituality of organized religion only goes as deep as the persona,³ where individuals play a superficial role of holiness for the sake of appearances and to feel good about themselves. (or to alleviate their own fear)

What a gift to be freed from the fear of my own darkness, I can now find ways of honest expression, and see the darkness as a friend, rather than something to run from. One of the things I love about Taoism, is the acceptance of the nature of the Universe, without judgment. It just is.....yet I still crave to share kindness.

Pashi

[Sachita]

I am going to try to come back to this. What an interesting topic. Over 20 years ago I discovered Jung searching for a deeper meaning within the divine feminine. I spent a few months with a hardcore Jungian sitting around a table drinking bourbon and talking about Goddess being an archetype. I began collecting his work, isnt there like 26 volumes? and trying to absorb the complexity of thought. I had many "Ahhhh ha" (is that right? lol) moments.

That was all just one part of my journey. Combined were hindu and tao. But I did find the work on gender- Anima and Animus really fascinating.

I'm going to subscribe and follow. Great topic.

[MasterWolf]

I'm in the process of downloading what is supposed to be a pdf of the book. http://megaupload.com/?d=N7NLVXBE

I wont have time to open the file this afternoon, and I am hoping it includes the english translation...chuckle...

peace

Wolf

[Passionaria]

Spirit Dancer posted this quote from Oren Lyons in another thread, but it is such a good representation of how some cultures embrace both the light and the dark that I wanted to add it to this conversation. TY SD

Pashi

"The Natural Law is a spiritual law. Its powers are both light and dark."

-- Oren R. Lyons, Spokesman Traditional Circle of Elders

There are some characteristics that are evident in the system which the Creator made. He made balance, harmony, and polarity. In other words, every (+) plus has a (-) minus. Every positive has a negative; every up has a down; every problem has a solution. The Spiritual Law is the same - it has light and dark. Both are good, so both need to be honored. Lessons can be learned on both sides.


Great Spirit, teach me the powers of the Natural Laws.

i am going to read more on jung and the influence of tibetan buddhism on his work. in reference to my own spiritual journey, i was lucky in not being raised as a christian. i am a hereditary pagan. we did not use the word "witch" to describe ourselves. instead we just called ourselves "folk". this was on my mother's side. traditionally the eldest daughter/grand-daughter, etc. inherited the powers of the family. we were a matriarchal family, with the women making the decisions. i am the last of this female of this family in my mother's line. as such, being the onlysurving female, i have inherited a great deal of powers, being also the eldest great-great-grandchild, as well as female. i remember learning from my aunts and great-grandmother the ways of our folk. we did not practice the magick i have read of in books, but we had our own ways. learning about jung's shadow side was fascinating to me, since he said in his own way what my grandmother taught me.
i have since added to the ways of our folk teaching from hinduism, tibetan buddhism, and taoism,as well as some native american spirituality and some of the other traditions of matriarchal goddess spirituality. mysticism is extremely important to me, as is inner alchemy. i'll have to brush up on jung, so i can contribute to this thread.
pres

anyone else take the Meyes-Briggs test? i took the online version and came out to be an INFP (Intuitive iNtroverted Feelings Perceptions). accordin to the results i got back, this indicates that i am best suited to be a Healer. about 1% of the population fits this profile. this makes sense, since, as Roshi, i plan to lead services and do counseling and give Dharma talks.
pres

[Glenn]

This is an interesting article about doing your warrior archtype excersize
www.yogajournal.com/wisdom/2553

[Nat]

Originally Posted by Pres

anyone else take the Meyes-Briggs test? i took the online version and came out to be an INFP (Intuitive iNtroverted Feelings Perceptions). accordin to the results i got back, this indicates that i am best suited to be a Healer. about 1% of the population fits this profile. this makes sense, since, as Roshi, i plan to lead services and do counseling and give Dharma talks.
pres

I usually score INFP or sometimes E. I think they think Jung was an INFP, though I think that last letter was added on after Jung in order to help determine the superior function. I think N is my superior function, so maybe that means something about whether I am supposed to be an I or an E. I thought I'd run across a chart that told you what your superior function was based on your myer's brigg's type, but my google skills are sad tonight.

One thing I find interesting is that your inferior function (what you have the most problems with) will always be on the opposite side of your superior function and it will always have the opposite on the first letter (I or E) to your superior function. And all that is somehow wrapped up in a person's shadow side.

My most blundering part of my personality is probably the sensate side, but I still am not sure if it's an I or an E.

[Sachita]

I am guessing many of us here are INFP. Our sexuality takes us on a diverse journey, often turning over many rocks and exploring our options. It's somewhat a dichotomy because on one hand I'm expressive and free-spirited yet find myself introverted as I get older. I'm guessing that our test results today are much different then they were when we were in our 20's. I know mine would be.

You reach a point where you have traveled down so many paths, read all the books, listened, tried, stumbled and beat yourself up. Then you finally arrive at a place where you sit down all the tools, take a deep breath and throw caution to the wind. You live day by day and although uncertain of the outcome you know this too shall pass and you'll be ok.

I admit that when I look back on my spiritual journey it's complex and though the words changed it all boiled down the same thing. Something I'm enjoying now is Qi Gong and I also adapt this, using my knowledge in Tao & Zen, drawing energy and allowing myself to fuse with everything. But as with anything, you can know the theory but it takes practice and work to really be effective. Jung clearly proved that the content of our emotions and subconscious directed our lives both macro-cosmically and micro-cosmically. When you finally do grasp that we are all part of one collective and can stay conscious with it, you do things much differently. People have a hard time understanding you because your priorities change you no longer feel you need to defend yourself. Most of our society today relies on excuses for why things are the way they are rather then to accept and embrace the diversity.

oh hell I'm rambling now and could go on forever. Some of you know exactly what I mean.

[Passionaria]

I always test as an INFP as well. I have never heard of the chart you were speaking of Nat, but if you find it, post it up. I would like to see it.

I find the introvert space is where I access the perceiving , feeling part of myself. It is where I read people from when doing healing. I'm empathic so I often diagnose spiritually by feeling what another feels then interpreting the vibrational energy. What I feel is often more insightful than what I deduct through questioning a patient. But we always use both together anyway. Being this sensitive in such a harsh world, is a rough road to travel......

Pashi

[Passionaria]

Master Yun Xiang Tseng, known by his Taoist name "Chen", is a Wu Dang martial arts master. He comes from a direct line of Wu Dang teachers, a lineage that is 700 years old and completely unbroken. At a young age he was chosen to study on Wu Dang Mountain with the Wu Dang master Li Cheng Yu. After ten years of intensive study with Master Li, she sent Master Chen to the United States to share this ancient wisdom and healing art.Master Chen is known for his profound knowledge of the Wu Dang tradition and his ability to engage his students with depth and humor. Thousands of students from around the world have been inspired to seek 'the master within' with Master Chen.

http://www.wudangtao.com/

[MasterWolf]

Originally Posted by Nat

I usually score INFP or sometimes E. I think they think Jung was an INFP, though I think that last letter was added on after Jung in order to help determine the superior function. I think N is my superior function, so maybe that means something about whether I am supposed to be an I or an E. I thought I'd run across a chart that told you what your superior function was based on your myer's brigg's type, but my google skills are sad tonight.

One thing I find interesting is that your inferior function (what you have the most problems with) will always be on the opposite side of your superior function and it will always have the opposite on the first letter (I or E) to your superior function. And all that is somehow wrapped up in a person's shadow side.

My most blundering part of my personality is probably the sensate side, but I still am not sure if it's an I or an E.

For years I always tested as either ENTJ or INTJ... and it was always very close either way. And then in the past four years something changed. I use a form of the Meyers Brigg in 2 workshops i lead and just recently re-took the Keirsey version with interesting results.

Keirsey is a bit more detailed in analysis than the original MB, and I've used it for several years now. I've taken the test twice in four years, and used the test to score about 30 other workshop participants and I've never had anyone score as 'oddly' as I do now. I scored very closely in 4 types - INFP 88%, INFJ 86%, ENFP 84% & ENFJ 82%. In Keirsey's breakdown, I'm solidly an Idealist, whereas before I was leaning towards Rational with a 'touch' of Idealist.

Its actually fascinating and, in all the workshop participants I've given results to, every single one said that it was, overall, one of the most accurate assessments they have every received.

If anyone is interested http://www.keirsey.com/sorter/instru....aspx?partid=0

peace

Wolf

[MasterWolf]

Originally Posted by Nat

One thing I find interesting is that your inferior function (what you have the most problems with) will always be on the opposite side of your superior function and it will always have the opposite on the first letter (I or E) to your superior function. And all that is somehow wrapped up in a person's shadow side.

My most blundering part of my personality is probably the sensate side, but I still am not sure if it's an I or an E.

The idea of a singular 'shadow side' is one of the things I keep thinking that Jung must have been misinterpreted about. Working with Archetypes, each of them has their own unique shadow properties, and some of those shadow properties can actually be harnessed to provide positive effects.

I think the MB and its variants can help us understand a bit about our own 'hidden' agendas and motivators and why some things resonate with us more than others. But, IMHO, when we really start exploring our principal archetypes and what areas of 'life' call forth a greater response from one or more of them, we can really dig deeper into our own personal inner truths and paths.

peace

Wolf

[Felix]

I have a presentation I am working on entitled Leather Woman and the Wild Woman Archetype. This is one in a series I have been developing. I will be presenting this peice at Spring Iniquity in April. There is still much to do to prepare. I would like to post some of the content and get some feedback.

[Tess]

[QUOTE=Passionaria;237712][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3][COLOR=Purple][I][B]

And it was funny to see my own hypocrisy, all I could do is laugh and shake my head. Laugh at the audacity of my own belief system, telling me I was not subject to the laws of the universe. Humbling. Now it appears that good and evil are opposite ends of the same continuum. They can't exist without one another. That is what yin and yang are, opposites ends of a thread, the tension of opposites interacting that dances the universe alive. I think this experience in a way reflects what you quoted from the article.



So well put!

I guess this is a discovery most of us share it's how we deal with it and learn from it that matters the jouney to the true self. Never ending always changing.

[Felix]

Dr. Clarissa Estes is a Jungian psychoanalyst who used archetypes and metaphors from old folk tales and stories to awaken women all over the world to their inner power.

The journey of the wild woman is about coming into power. Her journey through the wilderness has been a long process of self-discovery and now she runs with her inner wolf and lets her spirit soar. She is playful, creative, intuitive and often feared because of her wisdom and power.

Leather women have their own unique experiences and history. On our journey's we have laughed, cried, danced, growled, scratched, howled and loved. We seek each other out knowing, like the wolf, that the pack is stronger than the one. By sharing our collective wisdom we strengthen each other, our pack and clan.

In this workshop we will explore and share who the wild/leather woman is and how to release and claim her. We will tend to our soulskins and sing over our bones.

This workshop is for all leather women regardless of where you are on your journey. Come prepared to share your story and leave feeling empowered by the clan you belong.

General Wolf Rules For life:
1). Eat
2). Rest
3). Rove in between
4). Render loyalty
5). Love and teach the young
6). Cavil in the moonlight
7). Tune your ears
8).Attend to the bones
9). Make love
10). Howl often


Would you be interested in attending the presentation based on the above description?