A Question for Understanding

[WintergreenGem]

I posted this question in another thread, but I guess it wasn't to correct one. I am asking so I can understand, so please do not feel as if I am judging or anything else. Thanks for helping me to understand.

How does a transguy pass as a transguy and not a straight guy? (Sorry if that is worded wrong.) I really want to get a visual/understanding on this. Thanks. GG

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by GrahamsGirl

I posted this question in another thread, but I guess it wasn't to correct one. I am asking so I can understand, so please do not feel as if I am judging or anything else. Thanks for helping me to understand.

How does a transguy pass as a transguy and not a straight guy? (Sorry if that is worded wrong.) I really want to get a visual/understanding on this. Thanks. GG

You seem really intent to get your question answered and I wish I could help you.

Not that I could answer the question, even if I understood it—but I don't understand it.

To "pass" means to be mistaken for whatever is the "norm" in a given group, right? So are you asking, oh geez I better not even try.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by GrahamsGirl

I posted this question in another thread, but I guess it wasn't to correct one. I am asking so I can understand, so please do not feel as if I am judging or anything else. Thanks for helping me to understand.

How does a transguy pass as a transguy and not a straight guy? (Sorry if that is worded wrong.) I really want to get a visual/understanding on this. Thanks. GG

Are you asking how one can identify a transguy in a crowd? Or is this to identify that you are a queer couple?

[ruffryder]

Trans guys don't always pass as straight guys or want to be labeled as straight. This can be due to not taking testosterone or having the surgeries, which is called pre-op. Even if they do go through all of the steps and surgeries to trans, called post-op, sometimes they just don't want to be "straight". I guess if they do take testosterone and have the surgeries then people could assume they are straight. ?

[Tony]

Subscribed. Don't have adequate time right now, but definately will be back to offer my input. ;-)

[Linus]

Originally Posted by ruffryder

Trans guys don't always pass as straight guys or want to be labeled as straight. This can be due to not taking testosterone or having the surgeries, which is called pre-op. Even if they do go through all of the steps and surgeries to trans, called post-op, sometimes they just don't want to be "straight". I guess if they do take testosterone and have the surgeries then people could assume they are straight. ?

To me, I wouldn't associate straightness to whether they have medically transitioned or not. I'd associate it more with their sexual orientation within society. To me this would be for someone who has no desire to be associated with the LGBTQ community and likely never participated within a queer/lesbian/BF/<insert orientation here> relationship.

There are a lot more straight "trans" men out there than I think some of us realize. Many would refuse to come to a site like this because they have no desire to date women who may have had or are interested in women or transmasculine individuals. The ones I've met (mostly in NYC) said that they don't even identify with the trans part and don't recognize their past.

[Corkey]

The whole question presupposes that Transmen (a gender identity) are straight men, when FTM's may have different sexual identities, such as Gay, or Butch or yes even Genderqueer. We are not necessarily our sexual identity when being a gender identity.

Gender is who I am
My sexual identity is who I have sex with.

Make since?

[Martina]

Are you asking how people know he's trans as opposed to cisgendered male?

As people have pointed out, the straight part seems kinda irrelevant. He could be gay. Tons of transmen are gay men. Seems like more than not up here in Norcal.

[ruffryder]

Originally Posted by ruffryder

Even if they do go through all of the steps and surgeries to trans, called post-op, sometimes they just don't want to be "straight".

Right, a trans doesn't have to medically transition to be straight. I like how you Linus, and Corkey say that straight has more to do with sexual orientation and gender identity. Although someone may identify as straight, they may or may not be associated with LGBT based again on their orientation or identity and who they choose to have a relationship with, sexual or otherwise. There are straight people, trans or other, who may choose to be with femmes, trans, other straight people, bisexuals, gays, butches, so on and so forth. Not to consfuse the OP, she is asking why don't trans pass as straight also. I was just suggesting that with surgery they could pass and be viewed as straight by a bystander who does not know them. Maybe the OP can come back and clarify or discuss with us further regarding this question.

[Nadeest]

I think that what the OP is asking is how does a transguy manage to 'pass', and not be perceived as trans. If I am wrong, please correct me.

[Corkey]

When ya' figure that out let me know.

[aishah]

others have covered the difference between sexual orientation and gender identity.

as far as passing, i may be wrong, but here is my understanding...

it is based on other people's perceptions. most people automatically sort others into "male" and "female," almost always with the assumption that the person they are looking at is cisgender. if they cannot clearly gauge they might assume someone is trans* or otherwise gender non-conforming. passing as male means adopting/developing enough physical markers to be read as male by others some or all of the time. if you are trans* and pass most or all of the time, since most people assume others are cisgender, i imagine you'd have to out yourself in order to not be perceived as cis, if that makes any sense.

re: passing as straight...regarding sexual orientation, it's pretty much the same as with any other person of any sexual orientation passing as straight or not passing as straight.

[G Snap!]

I am curious to know why any transguy would want to be identified as a transguy and not just a guy. Just asking.

[Corkey]

Some of us guys are just guys, with or without the Trans part. I'm not transitioning and I'm a guy. I'm not straight, but I'm a guy.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by G Snap!

I am curious to know why any transguy would want to be identified as a transguy and not just a guy. Just asking.

I identify as a trans guy. I recognize my past of where I came from. At least at this point. I may later decide to drop the trans part but I did start my transition late in life and perhaps that's why I hold on to it. It's just a personal view of one's gender.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by G Snap!

I am curious to know why any transguy would want to be identified as a transguy and not just a guy. Just asking.

Maybe cause they're proud. Maybe because for some folks it's actually who they are. Maybe because of their political beliefs. A hundred very good reasons exist. More.

[Hominid]

Originally Posted by G Snap!

I am curious to know why any transguy would want to be identified as a transguy and not just a guy. Just asking.

I think for some guys it is an important part of their identity. My guess is that in the outside world, at the grocery store, at work, once the transguy "passes" well, he would not identify that way. But then again, how often is one asked, or is there a reason for one to state one's gender once the outside matches the inside?

For other guys, and I see this more in the younger crowd, there is some element of third gender feeling, or they WANT people to know they CHOSE this road. Again, I think it works a lot better and is probably used a lot more around very liberal communities, like in college, no-hormones or early hormones, etc. They know that people do not see "male" so they want to segregate from butches.

And for others, it only applies in forums like this - I almost put FtM as my ID while doing my profile, but when I realized that cis-men aren't here, I felt I could just be what I am, a guy. I am part of another online kinky community, and there I have to put "FTM" as my gender - I mean, I could put "male" but I would be constantly explaining.

Most who use it are early in transition or identifying within community.

In short (ha- I am longwinded), it's either that the person doesn't buy completely into the gender binary, that being trans is actually how he identifies, *sometimes* associated with being early in transition and the person feels disingenuous just saying "male", other times because the person is not going to physically transition with hormones and surgery, thus will always be seen as a differently gendered person anyway, OR, they are "in community" and want to make clear that A. he's not a cis-male (like me, I have to "come out" as trans if I want to be seen, which isn't often) or B. he's not female-identified and doesn't identify as butch, despite appearances.

PC caveat: of course I didn't cover everyone's experience, I can only speak to mine - there are so many ways to be masculine, to be male, and so many variations in desired visibility - nothing I said would apply to any one individual.

[Hominid]

How does a transguy pass as a transguy and not a straight guy? (Sorry if that is worded wrong. ----

It IS worded wrong - no need to be sorry, but the question is the equivalent of:

"how does a vegetable pass as a vegetable and not a green bean?"

"how does a toy pass as a toy and not a barbie?"

It would be nice if you'd come back and try again - as other responders have pointed out, you could be asking any one of five different things. My guess is you slipped and didn't mean "straight guy" as in "homosexual/heterosexual" - but I could be completely wrong. So don't be sorry it's worded wrong because you might offend, be sorry because it is impossible to answer because it makes no sense.

[chefhmboyrd]

for me....
i just move about the world, and don't concern myself about what other people "think" i am. i definitely "pass" as cis-male, but i work in the same place, hang out with the same people, and do all the same things i did before transition. the only thing that is different, even though i am pre-op, is i go shirtless in public. i just don't give a shit... just like honey badger.

i am engaged to someone, so there would be no reason to "out" myself or explain. make no mistake, i am not purposely "stealth", i just don't introduce myself like "hey i'm andy and i am a transman"

now if someone were to ask me if i was transgendered, i would say yes, because i have nothing to hide. but no one has asked. i don't really think it is an issue.
i am trans, and i am straight and so is my fiance. that being said, i love this bfp community, and embrace my lrgBLT brothers and sisters. I just don't have much occasion to talk about it in my day to day affairs

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by GrahamsGirl

I posted this question in another thread, but I guess it wasn't to correct one. I am asking so I can understand, so please do not feel as if I am judging or anything else. Thanks for helping me to understand.

How does a transguy pass as a transguy and not a straight guy? (Sorry if that is worded wrong.) I really want to get a visual/understanding on this. Thanks. GG

I looked at the original thread that you posted the question in and I noticed you posted only a little after I did with the same question and I'm wondering if you were referring to my post where I said "I want to "pass," but I want to "pass" as a transguy" since I was the only one that talked about that?

If so, then it depends on the person. There are trans people who don't want to be recognised as trans and want to be "stealth" and blend in with cis people. I'm not one of them. I want to be proud of who I am, I don't want to pretend like there's something wrong with me (I may think there was something wrong for me with the way certain parts of my body developed, but I don't think, now that those things are mostly corrected, that there is anything wrong with being trans...just to clarify) and that cis people are the only "natural" way to be human. I think that trans identities are legitimate sexes on their own without cis sexes. My words in the other thread were from wanting more visibility for myself as a transguy, I'd prefer to be seen as a transguy rather than being assumed either female or cismale depending on the person and how they interpret my body (which can vary quite a bit). In our society, outside of the queer community, it's impossible to get that kind of recognition. I wish that weren't the case.