What every Femme should know...

[JAGG]

Don't ever grab the muffler of a hot lawn mower with your bare hand.
Do not EVER ride your bike off a roof. Even a small close to the ground one over your back porch.
Those plastic drycleaner bags make nice superman capes but not so good parachutes.
Umbrellas make terrible parachutes
Do not take a big whiff of smelling salts to see what they smell like.
Witch hazel is NOT the same thing as vinegar.
Boats do not have brakes.

Don't ask me how I know.

[joyfulfemme]

thanks for sharing such caring thoughts....we all see expressions of love differently and the ones you shared here speak to how you choose to honor your femme....i applaud you and your tenderness

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Passionate does not equate hostility.

Kobi, why are you always trying to control the "tone" of how people speak (usually femmes)? It is seriously irritating.

Julie asked how we could make the process more constructive.

This makes sense given we are a developing community with new members added everyday who are going to make mistakes. Looking at how we can deal with mistakes more effectively without hurting peoples feelings in the process makes sense to me.

I voiced my opinion on the matter based on my experience in this thread today. And, I voiced why I felt the way I did.

You know what irritates me? It irritates me that I saw the original post before anyone responded to it. I could have said something to Jist and I didnt. And I didnt because I didnt want to get stuck in the middle of what I knew was going to be a problem. I didnt want to deal with the passion that was likely to find it way to me.

Knowing I did this makes me feel pretty fucking shitty about me. I let Jist down. And I let me down. Just like the Femmes have a code of honor, so do we butches. I dropped the ball here simply because I didnt want to put up with the bull. And that is making me feel pretty fucking cowardly.

And Jist, I owe you an apology. I should have said something to you and I didnt. I'm sorry. Maybe if we can discuss this without people getting chaffed, we can stop this from happening to other people.

If you need to feel chaffed, do it. I got my own irritations to deal with and, today, you are not going to be one of them.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I dont want to speak for NorCalStud. I offer up the dialogue we had here today as an example of how education can be done in a constructive manner.

I wanted to ask the questions I did since yesterday. But, was hesitant to do so cuz when I have done so in the past, I have gotten my hat handed to me in what were, to me, unkind ways. Sometimes it was deserved. Sometimes maybe not.

Today, when I saw your post to Jist explaining how what occured was a good thing and why it was a good thing, it made me more comfortable taking the risk of asking my questions.

Today, I got a response that I appreciated because it helped me understand something in a different way without making me feel like I was a total ass for not getting it.

It helped a lot that you and I had a direct dialogue and that for the most part others stayed silent and let it develop. As a result, it wrapped up quickly. I was able to understand what you meant was not how I had read it. Simple enough.

Some times when others chime in to help with explanations, I find it more confusing and it feels like, tho it may not be intended as such, a gang bang. Sometimes more is not better. Sometimes more is just more confusing.

I think it also helps right off the bat to say something like "Jist maybe you dont realize that what you posted is problematic but it is and here's why". To me, that is putting the focus on the content rather than on the person. And the issue is with the content right?

If we dont make that clear from the start, then the passion in and focus of our posts makes it look like and feel like someone is being chastised. That makes it is easy to take it personally. Been there, done that. And, as a result, it is easy to become defensive. It might be different for you but once I am on the defensive, even if you explain that it is not me but the content, it takes a while for the emotion to dissipate.

When I saw your explanation of why it was a good thing, I could reread the posts and see it in a different light, tho some still smarted a bit.

I also reminded myself that taking a snip from its context can be misleading cuz without context the words can mean something totally different. If I had read your entire post and the sequence of posts, I probably would have understood the words differently. But maybe not cuz I was caught up in the tone (passion) which felt kind of hostile not good.

Does that make sense?

See Kobi I have a problem with some of your statement here and I'll highlight it. I have a right to speak up about subjects that are problematic, as does everyone. Some times I feel as though you are trying to silence me, and others by your statements. I usually get past it because I don't let anyone silence me, be that as it may. The learning curve is different for everyone, thing is someone may have a different way of learning than you or I do. Not everything is obvious.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by JistMe

Oh yes... I did. I learned how new people must feel coming in here, and trying to post. Lucky for me, I am not a newbie.... have been a poster many years.
And no... I am not scared to post again. There's not much in this life that does scare me, and a little criticism is not on the list.
I'm just a little disheartened that something so simple, and well intended .... can be taken so literally that people even have a 'discussion' about it.
Not to mention... it was posted in a forum that was supposed to be for writings and ramblings, and not a philosophical discussion board.
All of that aside, it has nothing to do with being afraid or intimidated... or even caring... about someone else's opinion. It has to do with what a waste of my time and energy it is for me to even go read the replies. Why post?
One last note --- It never ceases to amaze me how much people can (or THINK they can) glean from one silly post. I went from being in a sweet and swoony mood over a great girl, to now a chauvinistic pig... ? .....
Not a single one of you (aside from grenade) even know me. So.... quite the judgement leap on your part.
I am actually pretty sweet. I am polite, generous to a fault, and am one of the only ones to stand up for the ladies in chat, or in real life. I am all about a woman standing on her own two feet, and speaking her mind. She doesn't need me, or anyone else to be whole. That's what I love the most about them.
But then.... none of you know that. Do you?

I didn't realize from the get go what zone the thread was in because the title is what caught my attention...

"What Every Femme Should Know"

So I read the post, thought hmm, this makes no sense because not ALL Femme's want these things that were in the OP. Hence my post regarding it. There was no criticism tied to my posts regarding *you*

My thoughts and and posts were regarding things a Femme

should know because I thought at the beginning that's what it was about, a thread about what Femme's should know...


Your sentiment was sweet and now I understand that the title was meant for only one particular Femme hence the confusion and the voicing from a lot of Femme's about what we should know, sorry if you felt it was an attack against your character.. It really wasn't...


----------------------------------------------------------

JAGG I have NEVER wanted to hang you from your eye lids, see this is how rumors get started.... The eyelids would tear and cause a bloody mess, and I am pretty sure that blood play would be a limit....


As for the whole *gang bang* theory....

I think gang bang is an awfully violent yucky gross term to use when describing people coming in to voice different opinions and state how they feel. That's just me though...

If we're gonna focus on wording maybe we should focus on that terminology as well because truthfully I see no one running around shooting up anybody, cutting up anybody, or slicing up anyone, it's not violent in here its a bunch of folks with similar ideas and thoughts and some with not so similar ideas and thoughts discussing and I think learning I am unsure at this point...

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Julie asked how we could make the process more constructive.

This makes sense given we are a developing community with new members added everyday who are going to make mistakes. Looking at how we can deal with mistakes more effectively without hurting peoples feelings in the process makes sense to me.

I voiced my opinion on the matter based on my experience in this thread today. And, I voiced why I felt the way I did.

You know what irritates me? It irritates me that I saw the original post before anyone responded to it. I could have said something to Jist and I didnt. And I didnt because I didnt want to get stuck in the middle of what I knew was going to be a problem. I didnt want to deal with the passion that was likely to find it way to me.

Knowing I did this makes me feel pretty fucking shitty about me. I let Jist down. And I let me down. Just like the Femmes have a code of honor, so do we butches. I dropped the ball here simply because I didnt want to put up with the bull. And that is making me feel pretty fucking cowardly.

And Jist, I owe you an apology. I should have said something to you and I didnt. I'm sorry. Maybe if we can discuss this without people getting chaffed, we can stop this from happening to other people.

If you need to feel chaffed, do it. I got my own irritations to deal with and, today, you are not going to be one of them.

I really think you are spending a lot of time and energy worrying about whether or not people (yourself included) are going to get their/your feelings hurt.

We have a magnet on our fridge at home that says, "put your big girl panties on and deal with it." 'Nuff said. We are all adults. Some of us more direct than others, some handle tough situations with humor (JAGG) and others are natural peace-keepers. No one is right or wrong. What becomes challenging and frustrating is when people start personalizing everything, don't learn from situations, and continue to scream VICTIM!

I don't think you behaved cowardly, but I do read a lot of passive/agressiveness in your posts, and I personally don't generally have positive reactions to that sort of behavior. But that's just me.

[Kobi]

I will try and make this as simple as possible.

If you want to build bridges, you build bridges. To build bridges, it takes give and take, it takes adjustments on everyones part, it means being committed to learning new stuff that we might not want to learn. That means if someone tells you (generic you) they feel hostility, do you have the right to tell them they dont? Who is the better judge of what they feel and why they feel it...you or them?

If you dont want someone telling you (generic you) what you as a butch or femme should think and feel, you do not have the right to tell them they are not entitled to what they feel and think. It is a 2 way street. Cant get if you dont give. Well you can but thats how wars start.

If you want to build pseudo bridges i.e. the illusion of bridges without doing the actual work to actually build them, have at it. And when we keep revisiting history over and over again, are we justified in saying over and over this irritates me or that person irritates me cuz they dont agree with me, or why is my passion a problem etc? I dont think so.

I am not advocating people be silent. I was silent and it is making me feel crappy. I am not advocating people not be passionate. Passion is good. Im not even advocating you not be chaffed. Chaff away.

What I am advocating is, if the goal is to be constructive, then post constructively. You can be passionate and still be constructive. If the goal is to educate, you can still educate without making someone feel crappy in the process.

And if someone is telling you (generic you) that something you are doing or saying is making them feel crappy or attacked - stop and listen to them. Maybe you are doing something. Maybe that isnt your intent but that is how they are experiencing you at that moment. Will it fucking kill us to just stop and listen for a change? Might we actually learn something?

I dont want to chaff BullDog or make Corkey feel silenced or make Julie feel she cant post after someone else. I dont. It makes me feel bad that they think this. Its not my intent.

Let me ask this.... and let it stew a bit. When do we stop talking about looking out for our brothers and sisters and actually start doing it? Do we have as much responsibility to look out for Jist as we do to look out for Corkey or BullDog or Julie and anyone else I am bound to chaff today?

[starryeyes]

Originally Posted by JAGG

Don't ever grab the muffler of a hot lawn mower with your bare hand.
Do not EVER ride your bike off a roof. Even a small close to the ground one over your back porch.
Those plastic drycleaner bags make nice superman capes but not so good parachutes.
Umbrellas make terrible parachutes
Do not take a big whiff of smelling salts to see what they smell like.
Witch hazel is NOT the same thing as vinegar.
Boats do not have brakes.

Don't ask me how I know.

Haha!! This was awesome. Thanks for the laugh.

[NorCalStud]

Im almost sixty. It was not until I was almost 30 that I heard the whole story about north america.

What is a real story? The real story has all the parts...not some of the parts.

Part of the story of our reactions to this piece of our bfp herstory is that the op was made fun of. If you didnt do it then okay but it was done.

I am learning that info is all so Im trying to remember to ask questions first so that is one way I may have dealt with it. Curiosity is friendly. Everybody fucks words up. What I really want to know about someone is what their tone is and what they are reverant about. My part in this story has one purpose....to help some see...

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I will try and make this as simple as possible.

If you want to build bridges, you build bridges. To build bridges, it takes give and take, it takes adjustments on everyones part, it means being committed to learning new stuff that we might not want to learn. That means if someone tells you (generic you) they feel hostility, do you have the right to tell them they dont? Who is the better judge of what they feel and why they feel it...you or them?

If you dont want someone telling you (generic you) what you as a butch or femme should think and feel, you do not have the right to tell them they are not entitled to what they feel and think. It is a 2 way street. Cant get if you dont give. Well you can but thats how wars start.

If you want to build pseudo bridges i.e. the illusion of bridges without doing the actual work to actually build them, have at it. And when we keep revisiting history over and over again, are we justified in saying over and over this irritates me or that person irritates me cuz they dont agree with me, or why is my passion a problem etc? I dont think so.

I am not advocating people be silent. I was silent and it is making me feel crappy. I am not advocating people not be passionate. Passion is good. Im not even advocating you not be chaffed. Chaff away.

What I am advocating is, if the goal is to be constructive, then post constructively. You can be passionate and still be constructive. If the goal is to educate, you can still educate without making someone feel crappy in the process.

And if someone is telling you (generic you) that something you are doing or saying is making them feel crappy or attacked - stop and listen to them. Maybe you are doing something. Maybe that isnt your intent but that is how they are experiencing you at that moment. Will it fucking kill us to just stop and listen for a change? Might we actually learn something?

I dont want to chaff BullDog or make Corkey feel silenced or make Julie feel she cant post after someone else. I dont. It makes me feel bad that they think this. Its not my intent.

Let me ask this.... and let it stew a bit. When do we stop talking about looking out for our brothers and sisters and actually start doing it? Do we have as much responsibility to look out for Jist as we do to look out for Corkey or BullDog or Julie and anyone else I am bound to chaff today?

I think we have to be adults and look out for ourselves. If that means being blunt, then that's what it means. I think we have to be aware of our words, that they may turn around and bite us in the rump. Most importantly I think we have to be aware that our words can be offensive.
Do I think it was done deliberately, not in the least. Holding a defensive position for too long can scream victim, whether one is or not. Egging people on is kind of like waving a red towel at a bull, there's gonna be consequences.

[BullDog]

Kobi, why don't you practice what you preach.

Now, I am off with my sweetie to a basketball game. Go Lady Vols!

Have a great night everyone.

[Novelafemme]

"And if someone is telling you (generic you) that something you are doing or saying is making them feel crappy or attacked - stop and listen to them. Maybe you are doing something. Maybe that isnt your intent but that is how they are experiencing you at that moment. Will it fucking kill us to just stop and listen for a change? Might we actually learn something?

I dont want to chaff BullDog or make Corkey feel silenced or make Julie feel she cant post after someone else. I dont. It makes me feel bad that they think this. Its not my intent.

Let me ask this.... and let it stew a bit. When do we stop talking about looking out for our brothers and sisters and actually start doing it? Do we have as much responsibility to look out for Jist as we do to look out for Corkey or BullDog or Julie and anyone else I am bound to chaff today?"



Oh dear...this is getting quite redundant.

Feelings are wonderful and amazing and beneficial EMOTIONS! Behavior is how you actualize your thought process, the physical manifestation of how your brain interprets various stimuli, and ultimately, how you respond. If you interpret every situation emotionally than you are going to exhaust not only yourself but lots of others in trying to get everyone to not only see something from your perspective (which is emotional) but to agree with it as well.

[Scuba]

I didn't appear to ME that JistMe meant harm or was telling others what they should or should not be in life. It was simply an expression of emotion...

This is the writing and poetry thread. For the sake of having a place to expose ourselves through our writing WITHOUT persecution I ask you to PLEASE take this discussion to another thread more suitable for the topic.

Scoobs

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by scubadyke

I didn't not appear to ME that JistMe meant harm or was telling others what they should or should be in life. It was simply an expression of emotion...

This is the writing and poetry thread. For the sake of having a place to expose ourselves through our writing WITHOUT persecution I ask you to PLEASE take this discussion to another thread more suitable for the topic.

Scoobs

My apologies, Scoobs. I just now, for the first time, looked up and saw where it was I am. I'm bad at that.

[Corkey]

I think calling out isms is appropriate in any thread.

[Dude]

Originally Posted by scubadyke

I didn't not appear to ME that JistMe meant harm or was telling others what they should or should be in life. It was simply an expression of emotion...

This is the writing and poetry thread. For the sake of having a place to expose ourselves through our writing WITHOUT persecution I ask you to PLEASE take this discussion to another thread more suitable for the topic.

Scoobs

are you a new moderator or something?
and who gets to decide more suitable?

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by scubadyke

I didn't appear to ME that JistMe meant harm or was telling others what they should or should be in life. It was simply an expression of emotion...

This is the writing and poetry thread. For the sake of having a place to expose ourselves through our writing WITHOUT persecution I ask you to PLEASE take this discussion to another thread more suitable for the topic.

Scoobs

Thank you for the reminder

[Scuba]

Originally Posted by Dude

are you a new moderator or something?

No and by no means do I want a job like that...but I do like this thread.

I am not saying we shouldn't call out "isms" I just think another thread can be started to address that directly. We have a whole site for that. Why not use it.

All opinions are of value in my eyes. I have nothing against anyone here and I'm not here to argue. I would just like to see this area maintain it's purpose which is writing and poetry.

Cheers,

Scoobs

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by scubadyke

No and by no means do I want a job like that...but I do like this thread.

I am not saying we shouldn't call out "isms" I just think another thread can be started to address that directly. We have a whole site for that. Why not use it.

All opinions are of value in my eyes. I have nothing against anyone here and I'm not here to argue. I would just like to see this area maintain it's purpose which is writing and poetry.

Cheers,

Scoobs

While I agree that another thread might be in order, the offense happened here, therefore here is as good a place to address it as any other.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by scubadyke

I didn't appear to ME that JistMe meant harm or was telling others what they should or should not be in life. It was simply an expression of emotion...

This is the writing and poetry thread. For the sake of having a place to expose ourselves through our writing WITHOUT persecution I ask you to PLEASE take this discussion to another thread more suitable for the topic.

Scoobs

Indeed it is the Poetry Thread. Quotes, Snippets and Other Writing. However, that does not mean there is not room for dialogue and discussion about said writing.

Are you making an attempt to censor the feelings of others, when it comes to the prose/poem that was posted? When in fact, this poem can be searched and various renditions of it can be found.

I sure hope not scubadyke... That would be a clear act of censorship and not productive or indicative of any writing thread.

Julie