Al-anon, Nar-anon: when someone you love is practicing addiction.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Yellow band

I would think, with Jess being a minor, you could have police intervention.

Well I am not the one who can do that, since I am not a direct witness to any crimes. Had Jess stolen money from me, I would report her. If Jess was living with me and pulling this garbage, I would ask her to go live somewhere else until she is ready to get help. But my hands are tied and every time I talk to her grandmother we have the same conversation:

Me: Jess needs to have some consequences for her behavior or it will get worse!

Her grandmother: But I just can't turn her into the police, she is my granddaughter! I can't do that to her and I'm not going to do it. I won't put her on the street either.

Me: Then she will just continue with this behavior and the next crime she commits may not be against you and she could get into much bigger trouble. Yes, we love her but we have to think about what's best for her. Letting this behavior continue isn't what is best for her.

Her grandmother: Well there has to be another way. I don't think she is really doing drugs a lot like you say anyway (this from a woman who told me she found a pot pipe and numerous bottles of heavy liquor in Jess's room).


Jessica has told me she uses and I have told her grandmother this, to no avail. So really, there is literally nothing I can do here. Jess lies to her grandmother and tries to lie to me (although I see right through it.) I can't get through to Jess or anyone else who has any power to help her. *sigh*

[Dominique]

Note I said my brother was 15. I've heard it all, both sides. I suspect you and I are around the same age.

He *huffed* model glue.....he'd huff the gasoline out of the garden tractor,and that wasn't a briggs straton 3hp engine,...so there was alot of gasoline to huff! And every lie in the world as to where that gasoline could have possibly gone, and then my father (at first) scratching his head and also making excuses for where that gasoline could have possibly gone.....then huffing wasn't a good enough buzz, onto other things....maybe it was the mescaline (sp) when he ate those rubber grapes that my mother had as an ornamnet in her fake fruit bowl.....I remember her watching in horror as he did this BUT SHE DIDN'T SAY A WORD!......one night, middle of the night, maybe early morning, we were awakened to an awful noise and the house was shaking. Lovely brother misjudged the garage and the side of the house and drove his car right into the side of the house, got out of the car and came into the house to pass out. (there was no garage on that side of the house) more excuses, more excuse for him.......blah blah blah...he admitted he used, he admitted he drank....they let him still drive, it was easier than fighting with him all the time.......the list was endless.

I'm sure this is why I have little patience for co dependent people or enablers.

I wish I wasn't so tired, I'd look for this story. Some one I went to high school with, I actually stubled on it looking up something from intervention.
Anyhow, her name is Roberta and she is a nurse. She had a teenager daughter who was a straight A student......from straight A's to getting a notice from the high school she wasn't going to graduate. Roberta went to the school and find out her daughter hardly came to school and her grades were in the gutter. EYE opener for Roberta. Roberta checked her daughters bank account and it was zero balance. She had a part time job and was pretty good about saving. She requested a copy of her daughter's cell phone bill......two months in a row , one over a hundred dollars and the second one close to two hundred dollars, next she got a mac card print out from the bank, cash advances and gasoline purchases. Armed with all this evidence she confronted her daughter.......in fact, she thought when she confronted her daughter, she was high. She checked her arms, track marks! searched her car and found empty stamp bags and burnt spoons and all the proof she needed. She took her daughter immediately to the hospital she worked at and had them help her get her admitted to a drug rehab center. They released her in two weeks. Released her to out patient therapy, Roberta wanted her in for 90 days. she was 17. She was home 2 days, and Roberta didn't let her out of her sight, (or so she thought) and on the third morning, went to wake her up, and found her (her daughter) in bed, dead. She was blue. She ODed. I don't know where I am going with this except to say professional people have to handle this.
I'm tired i'll write more tomorrow.

[T D]

Sometimes you just have to recognize when something is out of your hands and walk away. I know, NOT what you want to do, but really Drew, if you have no power or authority, and no one else is willing to do anything, what are you left with. Sometimes people have to find they're own "bottom" and wallow in it a bit before they figure out that they need to do something about it. I walked away from a 30+ year friendship with someone once for this very reason. It was incredibly difficult and painful, but something that I had to do. There was nothing else to do except remove myself from the situation that I had no control in. I couldn't watch one more second of it.

Hang in there bud!!!

[deb_U_taunt]

You can report this as elder abuse. Every city has a hotline. Your grandma's bank is also obligated to report it, if they have been made aware.

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

Well I am not the one who can do that, since I am not a direct witness to any crimes. Had Jess stolen money from me, I would report her. If Jess was living with me and pulling this garbage, I would ask her to go live somewhere else until she is ready to get help. But my hands are tied and every time I talk to her grandmother we have the same conversation:

Me: Jess needs to have some consequences for her behavior or it will get worse!

Her grandmother: But I just can't turn her into the police, she is my granddaughter! I can't do that to her and I'm not going to do it. I won't put her on the street either.

Me: Then she will just continue with this behavior and the next crime she commits may not be against you and she could get into much bigger trouble. Yes, we love her but we have to think about what's best for her. Letting this behavior continue isn't what is best for her.

Her grandmother: Well there has to be another way. I don't think she is really doing drugs a lot like you say anyway (this from a woman who told me she found a pot pipe and numerous bottles of heavy liquor in Jess's room).


Jessica has told me she uses and I have told her grandmother this, to no avail. So really, there is literally nothing I can do here. Jess lies to her grandmother and tries to lie to me (although I see right through it.) I can't get through to Jess or anyone else who has any power to help her. *sigh*

[Dallas2010]

The one thing that comes to mind as I read your story is the Serenity Prayer. I totally understand not having any say in the matter... like you I am not a biological parent and have no say in my sons life. Therefore I personally have to rely on the Serenity Prayer.

It's a tough situation for everyone involved. But to stand by and watch someone kill themselves is a personal choice. I would have to walk away. And I have.

My godson went thru a similar situation and I had no say in his life... so I chose to eliminate him from my life until he straightened out his. Not because I didn't care and didn't love him, but because watching him was just to painful.

I pray you are granted the strength to do what YOU need to do for You.

[Toughy]

my friend.....

Operate from your heart and your love.

You can certainly have clear boundaries about how Jess behaves with you. You can also sit down and ask Jess to treat the grandmother with more respect. Maybe grandmother needs to sit with you when you have this conversation about behavior. I know it's tough for grandmother, however having a confrontation will only make matters worse. You have a much better chance establishing boundaries with a conversation. I would frame the conversation in terms of boundaries. No shaming, no guilting, no telling her she is a fuck up and an addict. Conversation about boundaries. You can also make a boundary for her living situation with grandmother. When she turns 18 she is an adult. If she cannot be respectful of grandmother, then she cannot live there. Do not have this conversation if she is loaded. It will not do any good at all.

I'm not a fan of interventions and forced treatment. A Native American elder once told me: If you think someone needs an intervention, that someone is probably you.

[sylvie]

i really feel for you, and my heart goes out to both you & Jess..
Difficult situation, and one i can relate with in some ways..

my father, is an alcoholic and has been for 45 years, so something i've known my entire life.. he has never been what you call a violent addict, but definitely a self destructive one - taking us all down with him our entire lives, and continues to if we let him..

i have just recently let go & walk away - and it's the hardest thing i've ever had to do - i have tried everything i could think possible these last 3 years in ways to help him, encourage him to get help, ANYthing... his health is deteriorating and fast. i've always been very passive of his drinking over the years, it's all i've ever known and i learned at a very young age that i had to take care of him, because he couldn't take care of me.

for the last few years, i knew i've been an enabler all these years, but knew i had to stop, this just wasn't healthy - but i felt an extreme guilt to let go because i would think what if something terrible happened to him, and i wasnt there to make sure he was okay - it took some therapy sessions to help shake me free from that stinkin' thinkin' of mine..

He has no desire to help himself, i took over his next of kin, set him up with help, to intervene and have someone visit him during one of his many hospital stays to get through withdrawal symptoms - he refuses everything.. It took a lot for me to swallow the fact that there is really nothing i can do, except stop enabling him - move forward and take care of me now.. i have a lot of issues myself from growing up - and an eating disorder and addiction of my own to food, for which i made the decision to step up and get help.

It's difficult when they don't want to get help for themselves - and to sit by and watch it happen.. i wish i could suggest something that would help - i can also relate to other people not being on board with you about help for your daughter, it's the same with my father.. Though i've stopped enabling, they all still enable him, and right now he really needs some tough love or to hit rock bottom.. My stepmother continues to stand by him, buy him alcohol even - she's the only one who works, he hasnt worked since i was a little girl.. She lets him have credit cards which he maxes out, he steals (not from me anymore but..he'll do everything in his power to get that alcohol when he wants it).. so its frustrating for me to sit by now and watch what everyone does for him, while he is digging his own grave... i'm now angry, frustrated, stressed and worried about his health, but i refuse to let it run my life anymore.. i'm still working on the guilt, that damn guilt..

i'm his only child, i have 2 of his grandchildren, and i love my father..
i don't want anything bad to happen to him, and i definitely do not want to lose him.. he's only 61 years old, and has more life ahead if he wanted it.
i know none of this has been helpful, only to say that i understand..
i've had to walk away, it's all i could do - and wish and hope with all my might that one day, he'll want to change..
and i am wishing the same for you too, sincerely am!
if ever you need an ear, i'm around - sending positive thoughts your way in the meantime

[atomiczombie]

My daughter Jess is now homeless. I am struggling to find help for her, but she won't accept it or admit that she has a problem with her drug and alcohol use. Her grandmother finally kicked her out after Jess stole her grandma's car for a night. There have been a lot of things leading up to this but that was the final straw. Now Jess is mad at me for telling her she can only stay with us if she goes to a meeting (youth narcotics anonymous) once a day. I can't support her if she isn't willing to address her drug and alcohol abuse. Everything about this situation sucks.

Thanks to everyone who has been supportive.

[Dominique]

Nice to here from you again. I hate that you didn't get the outcome you expected. What are you going to do for you? (You will need help too) I'd suggest you start watching intervention (if you don't already) it's available for free on HULU on the internet if you don't have it on cable. You will need to be smarter than the user. UUgh, I hate sounding like Dora downer, but it often gets worse, before it gets better. Be strong Atomiczombie.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

My daughter Jess is now homeless. I am struggling to find help for her, but she won't accept it or admit that she has a problem with her drug and alcohol use. Her grandmother finally kicked her out after Jess stole her grandma's car for a night. There have been a lot of things leading up to this but that was the final straw. Now Jess is mad at me for telling her she can only stay with us if she goes to a meeting (youth narcotics anonymous) once a day. I can't support her if she isn't willing to address her drug and alcohol abuse. Everything about this situation sucks.

Thanks to everyone who has been supportive.

I would remind you that there are other recovery programs besides 12-Step faith-based programs. LifeRing Secular Recovery (www.lifering.org) and SMART Recovery (www.smartrecovery.org) are two of the better known secular groups. There is also a secular group called Women for Sobriety (www.womenforsobriety.org) that is the first and perhaps only program that is specifically about the needs of women.

Check them out.......12 Step is not always a good fit for some folks. She can certainly go to any one or all of these different program meetings. The more tools in the toolbox, the better chance of recovery.

Hang in there........you are doing fine.

(edoted to add: (personally I extremely dislike all, yes all, of the reality tv programs that are focused people with addiction issues....it's reality tv and scripted and edited so who knows what actually happens)

[jelli]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

My daughter Jess is now homeless. I am struggling to find help for her, but she won't accept it or admit that she has a problem with her drug and alcohol use. Her grandmother finally kicked her out after Jess stole her grandma's car for a night. There have been a lot of things leading up to this but that was the final straw. Now Jess is mad at me for telling her she can only stay with us if she goes to a meeting (youth narcotics anonymous) once a day. I can't support her if she isn't willing to address her drug and alcohol abuse. Everything about this situation sucks.

Thanks to everyone who has been supportive.

I come to you from a place where I have dealt with alcoholic/addicts in my own life.

This is where the 3 C's come into play. This embodies the concept of powerlessness.

"I didn't CAUSE it" ( "relieves you of any lingering guilt you may feel" )

"I can't control it" ( "gives you permission to live your life and to take care of yourself" )

"I can't cure it' ( "reminds you that you don't have to repeat your insane behavior(s) over and over again, hoping for different results, you don't have to keep giving one last exhausting effort hoping this time it will all work out

ME ~ One can not focus all their energy on another - thinking you can change or even help them. Find the balance as best as you can and leave the rest until they're ready.

My heart goes out to you and yours.

[IrishAmazon]

I'm trying to figure out where I fit in it anymore. 5 years ago I fell in love hard we met online a few towns apart, two years agonwe moved to a different state. In the last year she is drinking every night alone or not in the house. She can't have just one ever. I am having a difficult time wanting to go anywhere out with her because I can't stand the drunkenness.
I am the daughter and the sister and the granddaughter of alcoholics. I have very little patience for it. I don't mind having a few drinks when we used to go out it was fun I don't ever drink unless I trust explicitly the company I am in. But I can't do that anymore with her because she gets sloppy and goes over board. When we are at a friends house who have teenagers she is always offering them drinks witch n is some times alowed since they are in college but someone's 14 year old little brother came and she was asked not to and still did. I had to leave I apologized to our hosts and explainEd the if I did anything or said anything more it would just push her to angery and fighting.
She ruined her gastric bypass she had done six years ago
She worked so hard to loss weight line dancing hiking up crazy inclined hills marching through sand.
I fell hard for the girl.who was always on the go, made freinds anywhere didn't need a buzz to have a good time.
And now we are here, I can't stand the taste or smell.of beer I've always had a gag reflex to it, that translates to no intimacy no kisses because as soon as she comes home she pops one open.

I'm afraid I have to be done with her but I'm so not ready to admit that all of our love and passion is gone because she chooses beer over me over us.

We have talked about it I let her know the last time that I was done arguing about it that I hate fighting and at this time I've said anything I feel is worth saying my next step is to just go. I don't know how to leave her though.

[FireSignFemme]

Originally Posted by IrishAmazon

someone's 14 year old little brother came and she was asked not to and still did. I had to leave

In my 20's a couple in our neighborhood used to allow minors to drink in their home. One night a young couple left a party of theirs and on the way home were hit by a train and died. Alcohol was found in their system and even though neither was drunk, they were both still considered over the limit because there is no amount of alcohol it is lawful for minors not in the care of their legal guardians to consume. In some states, places, situations parents can allow minor children to have wine and things in the home but clearly that was not the case here. In this situation the minute those minors had more than one drop of alcohol in them away from their parents they were over the legal limit. And since our neighbors were the ones who provided that alcohol they were held both criminally and civilly responsible. Punishment - it rained down on their heads like fire and brimstone.

Your girlfriend is allowing minors to consume alcohol - and that’s a crime. And since the child she was allowing to drink was under 16 in many places, jurisdictions it’s considered an even worse offense than what it would be if the child in question was a couple years older. Also knowledge of a crime and not reporting it is a crime. Though temporarily leaving the home so she can have the whole place to herself to practice unchecked all the crime she wants might make you feel better, I’m not so sure it would be enough to absolve you of all criminal responsibility were she ever caught just depending on what the charge/charges were and how much you knew, were aware of the sittuation.

How is it going to look in court if you’re called to take the stand and the best you have to offer in your defense is- Well yeah I know it's illegal your honor but I can’t help myself. I’m so in love - my hormones just keep tugging at me pulling me away from the direction of correct and proper behavior any old way. Do you really think, in any courts mind that is going to constitute any kind of justifiable defense? The fact is whether you believe a law is right or wrong, stupid or not, if you get caught they’re still going to punish you just the same. Something better to think about reflect on now, this side of incarceration rather than mull over later from behind bars I would think.

[Stone-Butch]

I was an addictions counsellor for many years and went through most of your situations first hand with both the addicted and the families and it is a very sad state in both cases. These people are not criminals unless they can be charged with ruining their own lives. My ex gfs son was addicted to many drugs and with trying to get him into rehab and trying ourselves to help him he just continually went from rehab to rehab with no change in sight. I saw him at his best and his worse but as many say, they have to want to change themselves and accept the help that is offered as it is not easy when you are pulled into the life of addiction. It is good to see some of those who sought and accepted help, congratulations on your recovery and hopefully the strength to continue being clean and sober as it is an ongoing struggle.

[IrishAmazon]

Originally Posted by FireSignFemme

In my 20's a couple in our neighborhood used to allow minors to drink in their home. One night a young couple left a party of theirs and on the way home were hit by a train and died. Alcohol was found in their system and even though neither was drunk, they were both still considered over the limit because there is no amount of alcohol it is lawful for minors not in the care of their legal guardians to consume. In some states, places, situations parents can allow minor children to have wine and things in the home but clearly that was not the case here. In this situation the minute those minors had more than one drop of alcohol in them away from their parents they were over the legal limit. And since our neighbors were the ones who provided that alcohol they were held both criminally and civilly responsible. Punishment - it rained down on their heads like fire and brimstone.

Your girlfriend is allowing minors to consume alcohol - and that’s a crime. And since the child she was allowing to drink was under 16 in many places, jurisdictions it’s considered an even worse offense than what it would be if the child in question was a couple years older. Also knowledge of a crime and not reporting it is a crime. Though temporarily leaving the home so she can have the whole place to herself to practice unchecked all the crime she wants might make you feel better, I’m not so sure it would be enough to absolve you of all criminal responsibility were she ever caught just depending on what the charge/charges were and how much you knew, were aware of the sittuation.

How is it going to look in court if you’re called to take the stand and the best you have to offer in your defense is- Well yeah I know it's illegal your honor but I can’t help myself. I’m so in love - my hormones just keep tugging at me pulling me away from the direction of correct and proper behavior any old way. Do you really think, in any courts mind that is going to constitute any kind of justifiable defense? The fact is whether you believe a law is right or wrong, stupid or not, if you get caught they’re still going to punish you just the same. Something better to think about reflect on now, this side of incarceration rather than mull over later from behind bars I would think.

So you leave me feeling atacked, and you assume that all the events made it to things I felt like I needed to express today. You assumed and though I am not always clear when I write you missed a few things.

So please let's try something constructive because as simply as you decide I'm a doddling twitt, I assure you I am not. What in heavens name ould you suggest I do in such a sittuation? Call the cops? Have you ever spent time in vegas? Your lucky to get them to some for a shooting or armed robbery (yes from experince).

I did what i was able and no I was not sweetnor kind about it, I warned her, I expressed myself, I explained reprcusions to her and the freinds that own the home. If you feel like in my words I at any point it was implied that I sat by twirling my thumbs while her stupidity ensued you are mistaken. I left when the only thing left was anger, not leaving wasn't an option. I did not leave her and the kids to their own devices I left the home while it was full of other adults icluding some of the parents and the home owners.

Yep I decided to put some information out here partial to clear my head and partially for perception. But bless your soul you went for judgment, awsome. I get that what happened pissed you off pissed me off too. For So Many More Reasons than you can count.

Hears some of what I didn't feel like I needed to add, his mother gave permission for him and his 19 year old brother to have alcohol in this home, and the owners allow throw 20 daughter to drink in the home when she's home from college. The owners of the house asked that they not drink that day because there were early plans the next day. Do I agree or think that this is what's best for the kids not at all, not my call not my kids. So I did what I was able to and left.

So please judge me hope it makes you feel like a better woman.
Never in my adult life have hormones had the control over me that you so disrespectfuly imply.
What my heart keeps me from doing is breaking up and leaving her so far. Because this is all a new behavior that has been building. Something has taken a huge shift, My best freind is fading away to someone I don't know or want to know. I am caught because I don't belive you give up on some one you care about or have committed yourself to, but as someone who has of experience adicts I know some times all you can do is accept that you can not really help.