Reclaiming Androgyny & The Text Book Definition

[Toph]

an·drog·y·nous   /ænˈdrɒdʒənəs/ Show Spelled[an-droj-uh-nuhs]
–adjective
1.being both male and female; hermaphroditic.
2.having both masculine and feminine characteristics.
3.having an ambiguous sexual identity.

androgynous

1620s, from L. androgynus, from Gk. androgynos "hermaphrodite, male and female in one," from andros gen. of aner "male" (see anthropo-) + gyne "woman" (see queen). Androgyne is attested from 1550s.


it does not mean that i am butch and femme.... it does not mean that i give or take and it does not mean that i fuck and get fucked... which was what i was told i am and do...????? LOL

them: how do you identify?
iMe: androgynous
Them: that means you are butch and femme
Me: it means i am butch (synonymous with female) and can pass as male when i choose

Them: no it means you give and take and you fuck and get fucked

Me: oh wow... i suppose i should check out the glossary of terms???
not really in the mood for a battle of witt... i just let it slide after 10 tragic minutes that i will never regain

though i am fully aware that whom ever it was merrily went on its' misguided way to re-educate others... and for that i apologise but i was not in the mood for yet a nother attack... (being an asshole sure is tiring)


But the Fact Remains... i am reclaiming the word... ANDROGYNY
when you have the ability to enter a bath house (male)...to pull out your late for the show at my club, drunken, coked up horny drag queen from room #7 with out being told 'hey no women allowed' or when you go to the male hustler clubs and old men by you drinks all night thinking you are chicken meat... then, my dear you are androgynous...

whether one gives or takes is neither here nor there... whether one fucks or is fucked as well bears no consequence to the words' actual meaning... fact is... when you can 'naturally and unadulteratingly' pass as either gender... and /or are constantly reffered to in public as he, him, sir, mr.etc etc etc... chances are... taking it or not... you are androgynous...

learn it...live it...love it...

oh one more time for good measure...

an·drog·y·nous   /ænˈdrɒdʒənəs/ Show Spelled[an-droj-uh-nuhs]
–adjective
1.being both male and female; hermaphroditic.
2.having both masculine and feminine characteristics.
3.having an ambiguous sexual identity.

[Nat]

When I am talking to straight people, I use the definition you posted. When I'm talking to LGBTQ people, I don't use the term much because it has the potential to mean so many different things.

[Toph]

Go Green with ANDROGYNY
Reclaim, Re-use & Recycle

[Jett]

Welcome to the BFP

[JazzGirl]

Originally Posted by Toph

an·drog·y·nous   /ænˈdrɒdʒənəs/ Show Spelled[an-droj-uh-nuhs]
–adjective
1.being both male and female; hermaphroditic.
2.having both masculine and feminine characteristics.
3.having an ambiguous sexual identity.

androgynous

1620s, from L. androgynus, from Gk. androgynos "hermaphrodite, male and female in one," from andros gen. of aner "male" (see anthropo-) + gyne "woman" (see queen). Androgyne is attested from 1550s.


it does not mean that i am butch and femme.... it does not mean that i give or take and it does not mean that i fuck and get fucked... which was what i was told i am and do...????? LOL

them: how do you identify?
iMe: androgynous
Them: that means you are butch and femme
Me: it means i am butch (synonymous with female) and can pass as male when i choose

Them: no it means you give and take and you fuck and get fucked

Me: oh wow... i suppose i should check out the glossary of terms???
not really in the mood for a battle of witt... i just let it slide after 10 tragic minutes that i will never regain

though i am fully aware that whom ever it was merrily went on its' misguided way to re-educate others... and for that i apologise but i was not in the mood for yet a nother attack... (being an asshole sure is tiring)


But the Fact Remains... i am reclaiming the word... ANDROGYNY
when you have the ability to enter a bath house (male)...to pull out your late for the show at my club, drunken, coked up horny drag queen from room #7 with out being told 'hey no women allowed' or when you go to the male hustler clubs and old men by you drinks all night thinking you are chicken meat... then, my dear you are androgynous...

whether one gives or takes is neither here nor there... whether one fucks or is fucked as well bears no consequence to the words' actual meaning... fact is... when you can 'naturally and unadulteratingly' pass as either gender... and /or are constantly reffered to in public as he, him, sir, mr.etc etc etc... chances are... taking it or not... you are androgynous...

learn it...live it...love it...

oh one more time for good measure...

an·drog·y·nous   /ænˈdrɒdʒənəs/ Show Spelled[an-droj-uh-nuhs]
–adjective
1.being both male and female; hermaphroditic.
2.having both masculine and feminine characteristics.
3.having an ambiguous sexual identity.

All of the above means you are perfectly you. How wonderful that you do not feel the need to be someone you are not nor willing to accept "labels" that do not belong much less fit. I like your utterly literal thinking.

[Dragonfly]

Sad for me to see this thread so bare...

[Dragonfly]

The first time I was mistaken for a "hot guy" was a defining moment in my life. I was hanging out with my guys in someones front yard. I was the only female but I didn't dress any different from them. Someone was on the phone with a girl and her friends down the road. From their window I was not only male but the one they wanted to talk to. It wasn't the first time I wished I really was a guy. Or the last. Many other times I have had the opposite set up and wished I were more feminine. I have thought I wish I were a girl many times as well. So for me my gender presentation comes into conflict when it comes to dating. More often I am attracted to someone who sees my "type" is not "their type". Just recently I have been getting close to an androgenous person and have experienced many positive and difficult aspects of this match up. The best thing so far has been the kindredness and understanding. Has anyone else ever felt frustrated enough to sometimes wonder "why can't I be more ___" when feeling hope become rejection?

[Turtle]

Yeah, so much depends on who I'm talking to and what fuckin mood I'm in....<sigh>

[Goo]

Androgynous is the label I prefer to use, rather than butch or femme. Or I just tell people I'm just me.

[PumaJ]

Not one or the other, but both at once. Yes, really confuses some people.

I have come to truly value the term Two-Spirit, which I learned and came to understand thanks to two of my exes. One being Native American, the other being Native Alaskan. To me, the term seems to capture the essence of "both at once".

[Goo]

Originally Posted by June

I like it when people come here, or I meet them in the outside community and they say "I'm just me". I don't think identities should be forced internally or externally. I'm a Femme. I am comfortable using that term. I am partnered to a masculine woman, she does not want to ID or have labels given to her non-consensually.

My girlfriend is like that as well, she is a masculine woman, but she doesn't want to have labels placed upon her. I absolutely love it when she wears her pink jammies, because I would never in a million suspect that she would own a pair of pink jammies.

[Turtle]

So, when I saw this on the home page I was thinking "OK, there is a theme for today" ~ Be who you are, own it, don't let other folks tell you who you are or what you do.

EVERY time I take a gender test I score as androgynus. Yup. I am me and other folks don't get to tell me who I am....and I do get to live and learn and grow and change into the new me I am always becoming a magnificent new concrescence every moment. (even if i am an ass at times)

[Chazz]

This is a thought provoking thread!

As a matter of course, I don't think about identity labels all that much. I'm just me, being me, on a moment by moment. I don't give labels butch/femme/androgyny/gender queer/transgender/..... all that much thought. Except, from a political perspective.

Online and offline in LGBTQ circles, I'm pegged as a [hard, masculine looking] butch. I don't embrace the label "masculine" because, TO ME, it smacks of a false gender duality; one I've been rejecting all my life. The more "butch" becomes associated with, or defined as some version of (variation on?) "masculinity", the more I bridle under it's weight. I'm not "masculine". I'm a lesbian woman who does not abide by contemporary canon about sex, gender or sexual orientation in mainstream or LGBTQ culture.

Associating me with "femininity", would be a source of hilarity everywhere.

For me, the term androgyny does NOT denote "masculine" AND "feminine"(or some mix thereof), it denotes NEITHER.

I'm a hybrid. Some might say a 3rd gender, perhaps, one of many. I suspect people are like snow flakes, no two are the same.

I do not now, nor have I ever had, "cis-gender privilege". As I've said elsewhere, conformity isn't a privilege. I HAVE stopped letting issues of privilege, conformity, passing, gender, etc., rent space in my head. With a very few provisos, I've stopped caring what other people think.

The more comfortable I get in my own skin, the less I give gender identity thought. This doesn't make me "privileged". It's the payoff for much hard, inner work. The result of a life-long process that allows me to reject "gender" as a paradigm, all together. Arguing gender is like arguing: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin. In the end, it's unanswerable because gender is a construct. A construct is about DOING, not BEING.

I sometimes wonder what our "community" might be DOING if we all stopped identifying with constructs.

(Yes, I do understand that "coming out" and self-understanding are a part of everyone's process. I'm just trying to dribble the ball down the court a little. I'm a heretic by nature.)

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by June

In the past few years, I have observed a trend towards hyper-masculinizing/feminizing in our community. I am not sure why that is.

As though being Butch isn't good enough and you have to add High before Femme to get the finished product.

I am in a FB group of mostly Europeans and they look at gender and presentation in a much more relaxed way that I find refreshing. They seem happier with themselves overall, actually.

This rigid policing of gender and desire is starting to get really old for me, so I am glad people are talking about the dreaded "A" word.

People who are confident in who they are are sexy, regardless of their label. People who swagger around claiming they would never wear pink or they garden in their stiletto's, not so much (for me).

I am tired of this rigidity, too. Really, really tired of it. Yes, confident in being who one is- that is a multi-faceted turn on!

Reclaiming androgyny- or redefining it for today is a wonderful idea. We do not have to settle for definitions that no longer fit or just need a tune-up!

I love what is feminine and masculine about myself, always have.

Glad to see this thread!

[BullDog]

I do embrace my masculinity, but I can see why many butch women do not since it continues to be equated with male most of the time, including in butch femme circles.

I do think of androgyny as being a blend of masculine and feminine as opposed to neither.

Good topic.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I do embrace my masculinity, but I can see why many butch women do not since it continues to be equated with male most of the time, including in butch femme circles.

I do think of androgyny as being a blend of masculine and feminine as opposed to neither.

Good topic.

A blend and I believe it can be a much more fluid manner to identify or describe. Back in "my day" it was used positively and carried with it a sense of "equality"- well, within my "circles."

I have never experienced so much slicing and dicing of gender identity as I have within the B-F community. Not my favorite aspect of it. Although, sometimes I honestly think it is simply how people try to find their comfort zone with gender. That is a neutral state to me- not positive or negative, simply musing and figuring out something.

Why some things get so charged is amazing to me. I do embrace my own masculinity, but see it as stemming from the feminine (which is really a personal spiritual concept). I don't view either as good or bad.

As June brought up, I don't know why we in the US are so damn focused on such narrow definitions of gender. To me, this is something that ought to be the height of diversity.

[princessbelle]

I have this thought, just my own way of seeing the seemingly real push to identify online to basically how butch you are vs. how femme.

"I identify as this or that or i don't identify in any group or don't ask me...i am me. "

You know when *we* go to a gay bar for instance, people don't run around with name tags on that say *ftm* or *androgynous* or *butch and prefer she* etc. You are either attracted to someone or you aren't, at the beginning anyway. Besides the fact of knowing that person on a deeper level, the first thing we honestly notice is the way they look, react to people, talk, and or *especially for me* their movements and swagger or walk.

Online this is almost impossible. Well, we do have photos but you can't see the movements, the shading of the person, the eyes into who they really are other than the thoughts or posts they provide. The thoughts of others are very important but it generally doesn't tell you if they are *what you are looking for* by reading "What made you smile today" thread.

I'm betting on the fact that the majority of us aren't that shallow as to try and mold people into a group that has been discussed a million times and one in which i'm pretty sure we will never all agree totally to each definition of the IDs. I'm also betting on the fact that without these IDs as noted on many profiles we could talk it up and then meet and find out it is not as we perceived things (not to say that doesn't happen...but it would certainly happen more IMO).

Maybe i'm looking at this too elementary, too simply...but to me the IDs are just a tool to help us *see* each other. Maybe we aren't trying to disect ourselves or others with the labeling but just an honest way to "see" who we are having a drink with, a talk with, a connection with. I honestly don't know of too many people on here that say i'm this or that and doesn't appreciate how someone else IDs as well.

On here saying you are androgynous may make many turn away or turn toward, but in real time, i don't think the way someone IDs is that important. You are either attracted or you aren't.

Maybe the attention we give to IDs is just because we aren't sitting in a room with drinks of ...water. IMO online it is often hard to recognize or conceed to our attrations if we don't fully understand how the other person.....swaggers or walks.

[Martina]

i don't think of androgyny when i think of combinations of masculine and feminine energy. To me, androgyny is an attempt to not be recognized as either. It's like you have to achieve a balance or you have failed. And historically, i think it was an attempt to get out from under sexist notions of femininity without reconstructing them. In some ways, it's a fantasy of not having to deal with difference.

[AtLast]

Androgyny has long been embraced by strong women, soft men, members of queer communities, and others who do not easily fit into traditionally defined gender categories.


http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/androgyny.html

Actually, it goes to being recognized as both....

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Martina

i don't think of androgyny when i think of combinations of masculine and feminine energy. To me, androgyny is an attempt to not be recognized as either. It's like you have to achieve a balance or you have failed. And historically, i think it was an attempt to get out from under sexist notions of femininity without reconstructing them. In some ways, it's a fantasy of not having to deal with difference.

This is exactly how I perceive it.