Butches and Body Image - Let's Talk About It

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by StoneOne

not to I guess when the courts change it and I dont answer they will get it..... but what do u call them when I'm called "IT"

Ignorant jackass would be my guess.

[Metro]

Thought I'd share a positive experience or two... by way of background, being called "Sir" is not an uncommon occurrence for me. I do not "pass" as straight and ID both as butch lesbian and female -- presenting a masculine style of dress, hair style and facial structure.

This morning, like many a Saturday, I took a trip to my neighborhood Homo Depot. Upon entering I sighted an employee, clad in the HD neon orange apron, and walked in his direction to ask a question. When I approached and got close enough to speak he immediately smiled and asked "May I help you, Sir?". I responded with an extended silent pause and a very big smile. A look of surprise flashed across his face as he recognized that I was not male -- almost simultaneously he corrected himself (with a quick apology) -- and was, in fact, quite helpful and pleasant throughout the remainder of our exchange.

In another recent situation... I was in an unfamiliar shopping/parking structure downtown one evening just before the shopping part of it was due to close for the night. Didn't know where to get my parking stub validated or what the minimum purchase would be to get the validation/discount (which can be substantial in downtown Chicago on a Saturday night). I found a coffee/bakery kiosk on the ground floor and walked up with a smile on my face, asked the dude working it how he was doing, then proceeded to ask what the minimum purchase was for parking validation. Without hesitation he said he was fine, thanks, and extended his hand offering me a parking validation pass, saying -- it was on him tonight. That was nice. And all I did was be courteous and smile.

Over the years I have learned not to underestimate the power of a simple smile, and at times, the addition of a hand shake when greeting a stranger. In my experience, these simple gestures set a tone that often engenders, at the very least, cooperation and respectful conversation.

[AlexHunter]

I've been meaning to come back around and reply to this thread.

I have been called "it" more times than I can count throughout my life. I find it very disrespectful to have my humanity discredited like that.

I noticed some of you mentioned insecurities about not being big enough. Count me in with that one. While I am somewhat tall (between 5'7" and 5'8"), I am also somewhat slim. I do have broad shoulders and a little bit of muscle, but most people just say I am small/skinny/etc. I don't like that. I don't want people assuming I am weak or believing I am in any way scrawny.

In my mind, I'm big (in the buff way) and hulked to hell. At the same time, I accept my body for what it is. I'm healthy, in shape, and actually quite strong. I think it is human nature to want what you do not have or to desire to be "better." I have attempted to gain muscle weight and been successful at it, but getting any further than where I've gotten requires an extent of dedication that I honestly don't have at this point.

At the same time, I feel I have no right to complain about this because I know too many people who would probably slaughter a small country to be "naturally thin."

With regards to smiling, yes, everyone likes a smile... and it took me awhile to like my own. My smile is very feminine and has "given me away" before. During more dysphoric periods of my life, I refused to smile in pictures entirely because I thought it made me look female.

My friends kept telling me what a nice smile I had and encouraged me to smile more. I eventually decided they were right.

[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by musicman

I try not to use public restrooms, I make sure if I know I am going out, that I don't drink anything before leaving the house. If there are no washrooms where either sex can use I make sure that my partner comes with me. I make sure that as we step into the ladies room that my partner is talking to me. For me this lets the women in the washroom know 1. this person knows me 2. that I am in the right washroom.

I will NEVER walk into a ladies washroom without a female friend or my partner. Been there, done that and don't have the patience for the looks and snide remarks.

I am so sorry you have to go through this. I thought Canada was much more accepting.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by ArkansasPiscesGrrl

When I first met my partner, she kept repeating "but I am NOT a butch!" Yeah right. I could FEEL the butch, male energy rolling off of her. 'Bout knocked me over! It was how she walked (she had the swagger going on), how she talked, how she sat, how she dressed... yes it was all of that, but damnit it was WAAY more than that! It came from within her. It was a palpable aura and energy that was just HER. And the femme in ME, the woman in me who has loved on and lusted over butch women for most of my life, woke up, became ALIVE again. Skin-pricklies going on. Breath-catching going on. That inner recognition in ME, recognizing and connecting with the butch energy in HER, THAT is what caught me. Would I have had the same reaction if she had red fingernails or was wearing a dress? If her butch energy was strong enough, it might have triggered something in me. Don't know. I do know that for me, the outer package is just part of it. I need and desire and connect with and give myself to that butch energy. My femme wants to dance the dance with that butch energy.

I know what you're saying I think, in terms of falling in love with a butch-appearing and acting woman who doesn't identify as butch. Looking back on why I fell so hard for someone like that, I realize it was because her sexual energy expressed in a dominating way that I was drawn to, and of course, our emotional connection was strong; I'd never met anyone so gentle, brilliant and focused on me.

When things started to go bad, it wasn't because of the ways we ID, though I've wondered if a little b/f dynamic might not have helped us through some of the hard times.

*****************

Lately I've realized that one thing I love about women who ID as butch is their sense of humor about their differences from femmes or more feminine women. Also, they see what is femme in me, in a more positive light than a non-butch woman would.

Just talking about my own experience, of course. It sounds like your experience, ArkansasPiscesGrrl, has been really positive.

[Little Fish]

IslandScout:
Lately I've realized that one thing I love about women who ID as butch is their sense of humor about their differences from femmes or more feminine women. Also, they see what is femme in me, in a more positive light than a non-butch woman would.

Scout,
I've been thinking about this since you wrote it. I've realized more recently in my life that while I am eternally attracted to feminine women, it's really the femme ID'd woman who understands me as Butch in a way that the non-Femme (but feminine women) do not. A woman the who really "owns" her Femme title, is the one to really "own" me....;-)

(see what I did there? lol--I tried to pull that off with a straight face but no....*smirking*)

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by Little Fish

IslandScout:
Lately I've realized that one thing I love about women who ID as butch is their sense of humor about their differences from femmes or more feminine women. Also, they see what is femme in me, in a more positive light than a non-butch woman would.

Scout,
I've been thinking about this since you wrote it. I've realized more recently in my life that while I am eternally attracted to feminine women, it's really the femme ID'd woman who understands me as Butch in a way that the non-Femme (but feminine women) do not. A woman the who really "owns" her Femme title, is the one to really "own" me....;-)

(see what I did there? lol--I tried to pull that off with a straight face but no....*smirking*)

Dear Little Fish,

Thanks for that glimpse of how your mind works

Clearly, I have much to learn about the butch sense of humor—thankfully, though, I am a quick study, or so I've been told.

Sincerely,

Scout

[mr.misnomer]

i'm new to the planet. hope nobody minds if i drop in here.

i've read a good bit of back and forth on self love and acceptance, on body concerns, and public response to the way many of us masculine/butch types appear. i don't have any wisdom to impart on any of these topics. i can only share my experience.

for me, accepting my body has been a thing that i've had to do more than once. as i age, my body changes, and my feelings about it change. as i age, and my perspective changes, my feelings about my place in the world change. and, honestly, as i age, the public (in general) seems a little more accepting (or, maybe i'm getting better at ignoring them . the only thing that stays constant is that, like that person you know/knew that's in a 'bad' relationship but can't/won't get out until they see it for what it is and see that their worth is greater than that relationship....you have to be in a place to see yourself as someone you like/love/accept and then put it to work for you. nobody can do it for you, no one can make you love yourself, nobody can change the way the world treats you...its about what you do with what you've got.

at the end of the day, i'm glad i'm gay. i'm glad i'm butch. i feel fortunate to live in a time and place when/where its a helluva lot easier to be all of these things than it was pre-stonewall. i try to focus on the up sides....makes all of life a little bit sweeter.

cheers!
mr. m

[Ginger]

[QUOTE=mr.misnomer;599777

for me, accepting my body has been a thing that i've had to do more than once. as i age, my body changes, and my feelings about it change. as i age, and my perspective changes, my feelings about my place in the world change. and, honestly, as i age, the public (in general) seems a little more accepting (or, maybe i'm getting better at ignoring them . [/QUOTE]



Dear Mr. M,

You bring up an interesting point, which is, how does aging affect the culture's level of acceptance of people, like butches, who present in ways that are not hetero-normative?

I wonder if you are on to something; if there is indeed more acceptance of butches once they reach a certain age.

I think it might be the opposite for femmes—we become more invisible, and are devalued because of our age.

Anyway, thanks for putting your thoughts out there.

Welcome to the Planet!

Scout

[~ocean]

thers nothing invisable about a confident aging butch w. grey o r slightly greying hair .. makes this femme swoon

[Okiebug61]

I wonder who's thoughts on image some us worry about. Is it our own or what we want others to think of us. I'm a light butch and as I said before. For the most of my life I have only been picked out of a crowd by someone who is LGBT and very seldom by a straight person. The image I have of myself is I am who I am, the lovers/girlfriends/partners I have have had never questioned my image (or if they did they never told me) and I it has never been requested by anyone I have been with to look or act a certain way. It has always bothered me that society has such a stronghold on what a girl or boy should act or look like. Screw society and their hegemonic attitudes.

We own our lives and we have the right to dress as we want, cut our hair as we want, present ourselves as we want without being ridiculed.

Admiration to those of you who live outside the box and fight for the rights to be who you are without conceding to societies definitions.

[Ginger]

Okiebug wrote:

I wonder who's thoughts on image some us worry about. Is it our own or what we want others to think of us... Screw society and their hegemonic attitudes.


That kinda sums it up.

Scout

[StoneOne]

of friends and family and people I dont know making judgements and statements about how I look and dress, my facial hair, how I carry myselt, T , Top surgery . I am who I am and finally walking the path I should have years ago (more than I care to admit) Please dont make me be a ass and back up your bus I have had enough.
Is not my intent to be rude so I am sorry if I offend anyone but man it feels good to say out loud.
The higher power does not make mistakes and here I am so deal with it and I wont judge you all.
Thank You
ps

[StoneOne]

Originally Posted by StoneOne

of friends and family and people I dont know making judgements and statements about how I look and dress, my facial hair, how I carry myselt, T , Top surgery . I am who I am and finally walking the path I should have years ago (more than I care to admit) Please dont make me be a ass and back up your bus I have had enough.
Is not my intent to be rude so I am sorry if I offend anyone but man it feels good to say out loud.
The higher power does not make mistakes and here I am so deal with it and I wont judge you all.
Thank You
ps

my family here and all on the planet to know I feel nothing but love and respect from you all !
This post is aimed at the my personal experience not anyone here.
Thank You for the planet and all the love, respect and support
SyrDamon

[Luv]

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

I wonder who's thoughts on image some us worry about. Is it our own or what we want others to think of us. I'm a light butch and as I said before. For the most of my life I have only been picked out of a crowd by someone who is LGBT and very seldom by a straight person. The image I have of myself is I am who I am, the lovers/girlfriends/partners I have have had never questioned my image (or if they did they never told me) and I it has never been requested by anyone I have been with to look or act a certain way. It has always bothered me that society has such a stronghold on what a girl or boy should act or look like. Screw society and their hegemonic attitudes.

We own our lives and we have the right to dress as we want, cut our hair as we want, present ourselves as we want without being ridiculed.

Admiration to those of you who live outside the box and fight for the rights to be who you are without conceding to societies definitions.

well said Okie...Medusa once called me a "faggy butch" cause I love all things theater,musical etc lol

Im just mellow..take me as I am or not at all. In the community they look at me and say id=butch,,Ive never liked being called "sir" because I am femaile-identified..now,,I sit here with my hair pulled back into a small ponytail...,, I guess as I hit my 50's I dont care as how people see me anymore on the outside as long as they know its the insides that last

[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by Luv

well said Okie...Medusa once called me a "faggy butch" cause I love all things theater,musical etc lol

Im just mellow..take me as I am or not at all. In the community they look at me and say id=butch,,Ive never liked being called "sir" because I am femaile-identified..now,,I sit here with my hair pulled back into a small ponytail...,, I guess as I hit my 50's I dont care as how people see me anymore on the outside as long as they know its the insides that last

Well hey "Faggy Butch" I'm with you on this. I love the theater and musicals. Red and I are hoping you stop and stay a few days when you head back to Tenn. You are bringing Gypsy correct?