Trans and Relationship's
 

I don't think I've ever been bashed because of dating within the community but have been told I'm a traitor to the community (and, from what I inferred, a traitor to women) for transitioning.

But like some of the other comments above, I do not feel comfortable outside the community. It's not where I feel at home. The straight/heteronormative world isn't mine. I'm lucky to have a partner who is queer in who she dates.

If I was to take on another partner (we maintain a poly outlook on life) I would likely look for another queer partner rather than a straight women.

And to think

I wondered if I could/should participate in the thread, since I'm not single and the question was posed to single transmen


Dylan

Ok so i should have left out "single" my mistake.

I cannot speak for anyone except myself, i date and have relationships with femme's because that is who i am attracted to. High Maintenance, girlie girl type women.

Opposing the question to dating within the community, lol i usually get told to leave the "lesbian" community alone and go out and find a straight woman.

Then im told that i "look" too male. So i best get moving on.

I chuckle to myself, cause these are tweeners that have issues and like to cause drama.

I just want to live my life, keep friends and tread lightly with the community.

June,

Fragile is definitely not a word I would use to describe you.

I just find it interesting that out of nine posts on a question posed to transmen in a trans thread, three of the responses are by cispeople, and two of the posts are asking for explanations while the other one talks about how cispeople feel about trans people in queer space.


It's Just Ironic To Me Especially When Added To The Fact That I Asked The OP If It Would Be Out Of Line If I (as a coupled transperson) Was Welcome To Post,
Dylan

Im sorry for singling out transguys, it was not my intention.

And this is a community and EVERYONE is welcome in this conversation

Dylan be nice lol

sometimes threads heat up, sometimes they die off. im sick of having this conversation with a one sided lesbian that is NOT on the planet but texts me off the wall cause i was interested in HER ex. and i just need input here.

thread is open to EVERYONE. keep it clean

"HowSoonIsNow" i like snarkieness. bring it on. :)

Gosh Sam, block her, no one needs that kind of negativity in their life!

You can post here anytime. i like the difference of opinions, that is what makes us unique.

i know you were sincere, i just went on with the snark comment. im sorry. didnt mean to offend you

ditto. this seems to be my niche — the availability of transensual femmes who I find very attractive. It;s just too bad it'll never happen. (for reasons)

I find it interesting that trans people are not only told they are not part of the glbTq community, but they're also then told how to act/acceptable terms/whom they may partner with/etc when they are in the glbTq

Yet the same 'rules' are not expected when the glbq's are in the T community

This isn't a retort towards you June...honest. I'm talking about the OP.

I have definitely been told I whom I 'should' be dating. We have all been told how we 'should' act in this community. We've all seen those who don't 'behave' excommunicated. It's just funny to me that trans ppl are often seen as 'guests' of the glbq community who can be easily discarded if they don't abide by the 'rules' even though we've helped the glbq community forever. Yet never once have I seen a cis glbq ask about their behavior when in T space...it's almost just an assumption that glbq's 'should' be welcome.

It's just funny to me


In A Not HaHa Way,
Dylan

As a transguy, I have insecurities about being part of this community. In many ways I do feel comfortable with you guys and gals in a way I don't feel at all comfortable in the cis/straight world. I consider myself queer, because my primary attraction is to femmes, and I am not at home in the cis/straight world. I love the LGBTQ community.

My insecurities are about how I fit into the butch-femme community as a transguy. Will anyone be interested in me once the T that I am on has changed my body? Will anyone still see me as a legitimate member here? Most importantly, will people here still see ME, and not just my body? I am on disability. I live out in the middle of a rural small town area. I have issues with anxiety and panic disorder. There are plenty of reasons for femmes to not have any interest in me. I just hope that my trans status isn't one of them.

All that being said, only once so far have I pursued a femme who told me no, and it was because she wanted to be with a woman. No one has called me traitor or said I wasn't welcome here. I just worry that it might happen, cause I have heard of guys being treated that way. I think it is sad and hurtful.

And by the way, I am attracted to femmes because they are powerful, strong women who embody femininity and courage and heart. They are bold, unapologetic, and not afraid to stand up and be proud of who they are and who they love. No one else touches my heart and heats my desires like a femme.

Thanks for starting this thread Sam.

Perhaps this may be a worthwhile separate thread to start, Dylan.

I've bolded the parts that make me feel it's right on target with the conversation and OP

Queers (queer trans people) are often told they *should* be dating straight people...even if the GLBTQ community is theirs too.

Queer transpeople are also told how to act in the GLBTQ community ("You shouldn't be dating SoAndSo"/"You shouldn't be seeking a partner here"/etc)

Yet, the same rules don't apply for cis queers


I Think It's Right In Line With The Conversation,
Dylan

Sorry. I wasn't clear.

Yes, it's on topic but I'm thinking it may be an interesting discussion in a larger scheme beyond dating.

So, let me ask you then.

In re: to the part I've bolded.

A) If a cis woman comes on the site, IDs as queer, but is married to a cis-man, and has no interest in dating ANYONE (because she's happily partnered to her cismale partner)...do you have a problem with her being on the site?

I ask, because I don't consider whom someone is attracted to as relevant to how they ID for themselves, and whether or not that attraction makes or breaks their queerdom. What about butches who date other butches and aren't into femmes at all? Can they still be here? Or are they also an issue.

B) Does whomever One is attracted TO make or break their queer card? In other words, is One's queer identity dependent upon whomever they're interested in? Ergo, is one still queer if One dates, NO ONE?

C) Do YOU believe het people can be queer?


I'm Having A Hard Time Wording Exactly What I Want To Say, So I Lettered...Not Being Curt Or Terse,
Dylan

Be Yourself. If you feel like you need to ask permission within a community for allowances...
expect someone to say no.

But then, I didn't find like I was turned into an instant pariah after that (gasp) one shot of T coursed into my veins and I became a big bad man and all.

it's a complex situation, sure, but when you look for complex situations, you usually find them.

[/SIZE]I guess I feel fortunated that i don't feel bound to any community I just go where I feel like I fit. Maybe part of that is due to never really being in the "gay" part of the community ... i Passed go and went right to Jail (the butch-femme community) ;) Even at that I've gotten a lot of support from the Butch-femme community but it's just part of my world. It's the same with the transgender community. I have other transgendered people in my world but my whole life isn't centered on it. Even in recovery it's part of my life and a huge part that I bring into the rest of my life but i'm not sequestered in it.

It's weird for the most part I can't think of feeling I've been told to act or be or date a certain person/way. Or maybe i've gotten better at not caring what other people think and just haven't realized .... hmmmm. Again I wonder if that's due to not being centered in one world.

I'm also thinking maybe some of the stuff blows in and out of one ear because of my motives for being. It's weird to hear everyone talking how who they would date as being a qualifier for being on this site. I may or may not find someone to date on this site, I may find them in a straight bar, at the glbtqi(and I know I have to be missing some letters) center, or just walking down the street.

I come on this site to get support in being whatever person I'm finding myself to become and to give support to others to freely become the person they are suppose to be.

I've stated this other places before that when it comes to dating I hope to not limit myself to just one arena. One arena could be this site, this community, the straight community, the lesbian community, etc... I hope that I can allow myself to be open enough that I won't miss the wonderful person that is suppose to be part of my life. Likewise I hope that person will be open enough to give me a chance and not put limits on who they are looking for.

Here's the part that struck me as interesting. I never said anything about the woman IDing as straight. I purposely made no mention of her orientation. But you went ahead and assumed she would ID as straight. It's just interesting to me.

I don't find it unlikely at all that a male ID'd butch would be interested in dating female ID'd butches, and would/could consider that a straight relationship. Butches who date other butches aren't necessarily queer. Lots of different groups use the term butch.


This is what I was specifically referring to...not the part about a date saying to you, personally, he was only into straight women.

I was wondering if One's partner makes/breaks their queer card. More specifically if a man's queer card gets taken away if he's only interested in dating straight women. If anyone's queer card gets taken away if they date NO ONE. Or if a femme's queer card gets taken away if she only dates men.
Is that problematic for you as well?

So, het, cis people can't be queer? Are you saying then that there's no queer communities in the het world? No matter how a person IDs for themselves, you still consider them NOT queer? But, if someone is trans, they're still queer even if they ID as straight? Would it be problematic for you if that straight, cis woman who claimed Femme participated on this site?

I'm not trying to be a pain in one's rear, and I see this as completely on topic...I guess Sam is the boss of that tho. I'm quite interested in having this conversation also (the one Sam presented), and I think breaking it down is a good way of understanding.

And I swear, if the weather weren't so gross outside, I would immediately get offline and ask no more questions for the whole day.

I really have to go do some stuff! I will get back later if I can, and I hope this is not derailing Sam's intent. And also, I hope it's not looking like the June and Dylan show here, my apologies if it does, and you know, Dylan and I can go get a room somewhere and hash this out. ;)[/QUOTE]

Maybe we should make sock puppets?


Dylan

Its all good, its conversation in all variations.

Opinions are fascinating.

I do love it that y'all make me think about the why's of the ways I think.

For me, "queer" is about the attraction/behavior factor. I guess I see anything outside the norm as being queer so, yes, I know heterosexual people who are queer and I know gay people who are not queer. That's partially me slapping my own label on people and partially the label they choose for themselves.

I think being butch/femme/trans is not, in and of itself queer as much as our attraction to others outside the "normal" spectrum of what is expected somehow queers us. I have many friends who are female ID'd lesbians attracted to other female ID'd lesbians. They do not ID as butch or femme. This is kind of the normal, expected version of lesbian relationships so I don't really see them as queer and most of them don't see themselves that way and many of them are horrified at the word. On the other hand, I know a ton of people who ID as heterosexual but have attractions to / interactions with people in very queer ways.

I think, for me, "queer" is in many ways tied to kink so, based on my reference points, anything that may be seen as "kinky" to the outside world would be seen as "queer" to me. This would include not only people involved in specific BDSM activities but anything else that is viewed as outside the norm for those individuals.

As to some of Dylan's questions, I know several women who are married to cismen and ID as heterosexual who hang out on b-f websites and a couple who hang out in b-f and/or primarily gay kink space in real time. The specific circumstances of their relationships are not my business but if this is where they feel comfortable and what they consider their community, I'm not one to tell them the don't "belong" based on their current relationship. For me, this would go back to the part about individual ID's not being based on who someone is partnered with.

Personally, it would feel a little icky for someone who ID's as a heterosexual male, and does not see themselves as queer in any way, to be here for the purpose of meeting a potential partner (whether that's for a relationship, dating or sex.)

I tried to think this out but I doubt I did a very good job of it really. So, I reserve the right to come back later and completely contradict myself if questioned! :)

I too know a number of het folks who not only ID as queer, but who are also more *culturally* queer than some other queers I know.

But then, I think I view *queer* in the same manner as you're expressing here. I (me,me,me) DO think het folks can be queer. I don't think *queer* is only for gays/lesbians/bisexuals. I mean, I know het people in the poly community who take a lot of flack from the straight world. I also know some het kinkers and some het swingers. Some of the ID as (het) queer and some don't.

What I think is funny (not ha ha) is that *most* people are ok with allowing a cis het woman who's married come on and stuff, and wouldn't have *too* much of an issue with it, but people *would* have an issue with a het guy coming onto the site.

I, me personally, am cool with anyone who IDs as queer or considers themselves *culturally* queer enough to not be an offensive asshole. I don't remember any cis, straight men ever being on the either site making an ass of himself...but I DO remember a couple cis, straight women being on the (old) site being over privileged assholes saying whatever they wanted.

So, it's just interesting to me.


Dylan

I'm sure there are a number of cis heterosexual ID's people of both genders on both/all sites. I don't know everyone and I really don't know those who are not active or vocal. There are a lot of lurkers.

Personally, and pardon the graphic nature, but I don't think it gets much queerer then a straight guy with a transman's fist up his ass. Queer is as queer does? Which then makes me wonder if I have a scale of queer. I think I do because I often rate things as being "more" or "less" queer the way I just did. That's a tangent that is way off topic, sorry.

Just to clarify, as no offense was intended in my previous post and I was speaking about my own thoughts/feelings/judgements in an honest way from the gayla space. I have never, and will never, say that anyone "shouldn't" be here on this site, or any site, for any reason. That was kind of the point of my post. Your individual ID and reasons for wanting to be included in this community are really none of my business and I will never use them as some type of scale for determining who belongs and who doesn't. With the exception of the obvious trollers/spammers, I think everyone has right to be here if they want to be.

That being said, it would feel "icky" to me mostly because I wouldn't really understand why someone who ID's as a non-queer, heterosexual male and is not interested in becoming involved with anyone other then non-queer ID'ing heterosexual women, would come to this site in search of a partner. That "icky"-ness would be based on my own history of interactions with straight guys who think lesbians are just for their entertainment or for "conquering". I do not have any issue with non-queer, heterosexual male ID'ing individuals being involved on the site, or in b-f/gay community in general if it's a place they feel comfortable and included and feel like they belong.

I also have absolutely no issues at all (cannot state this emphatically enough without it sounding like one of those "my best friends are..." kind things) with transmen, FTM's, GQ, etc. individuals being on the site or in b-f space ever and I don't think I implied that in any way in my previous post. If that was how it came across or I somehow implied that without realizing it, please accept my apology and know that I will try much harder in the future not to say anything that may be read that way.

I wasn't saying I read you as offensive at all. I apologize if I somehow implied that. I really didn't think that.

It's just interesting to me that a cis, straight male is seen as 'more suspect' (?) than a cis, straight female. That's all I was saying.

So, that part is just interesting to me. And you're definitely not the only person to express that.

Fairly recently, Firie and I were having a conversation about a het-queer acquaintance of ours. He's part of the queer community because he's poly. He's extremely privileged in so many arenas (class, white, read as straight, male, able-bodied), and he says the stupidest shit. Firie asked me if I thought he should be 'allowed' on the site. I think he should be 'allowed' on the site. But I also know he'd be gone after his first or second post, because he'd say something incredibly stupid.

But then, I have other friends who don't ID as queer, but who are more *culturally* queer than some queer people I know.

But I would question ANYONE who ID'd as straight and had no tie to the queer community coming around voicing their opinions about shit.

I mean, it's a queer website, and if you're not *affiliated*, I could really give a rip about your opinions...yanno what I'm sayin?


Dylan

I read gayla as saying that

You said, you'd read a cis married woman as 'questioning'.

You also said it would be problematic to you if a there were a (straight) man on the site who was only into straight women

Comments have been made all over both sites throughout the years

Met said it in a thread not that long ago...can't remember the thread...maybe the expectations thread? I'll find it.

Seriously, it's been said in the past. Additionally, whenever the idea of hets on the site comes up, it *usually* (and honestly, I can only remember one exception, right now and that was OBB saying married women are not lesbians) turns into a conversation about how the site will be 'invaded' by straight men being pigs.

I don't know how One would poll it...I don't even know how to make a poll. Hell, I don't even know if my membership lets me make a poll. Too bad we couldn't do it now without unbiased answers based on this thread.


Dylan

I said it, in relation to the thread topic, in the context of ...looking for a partner. But yeah, I think that if a cis het guy were on the site, with no connection to the community other then google, and vocal about that ID, it would be an issue.

I think many of us have been socialize towards the "straight guys are creepy in queer space" kinda thing. At the same time, I think we are much more tolerant of females in general no matter their ID, biology, or background. And yes, I totally own the sexism that is inherent in both of those statements. Recognizing it for what it is doesn't change the fact that it is.

Well, here's the thing, I would wonder why any straight ID'd person who wants nothing to do with the queer community would be here.

But why why why is it only assumed that very few femmes here would be interested? What about butches or transguys? Do they count? Or is it just about the assumption that femmes wouldn't be interested? Why is there NO assumption at all about what butches or transguys would be interested in?

And again, why is it assumed a man would only be interested in femmes? Perhaps that man is interested in butches?

I'm just curious about these repeated assumptions...in a queer community.

Also, why is it more acceptable if say a cis woman were to come here *questioning* her sexuality, but it's not ok if a man is here questioning *his* sexuality?

You said yourself if a cis woman married to a cis man were to come here, you're assumption would be (not that she IDs as queer, but) that she's 'questioning'. What if she made a few stupid comments while she were here *testing out the waters* or *questioning* her shit?

Now, I'm seriously NOT condoning anyone making stupid comments, and I've seen some of the comments re: straight women. I'm not condoning that. I am saying that I don't think One's queer ID has necessarily something to do with whom One is interested in partnering with.

I mean, frankly, I don't understand wanting to be on a queer site if you don't ID with the queer community. But again, I'm just really (truly) intrigued by some of the assumptions.


Dylan...I feel like we're starting to talk in circles.