[Bit]

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

You are free to take my post however suits you, though I had not one whit of patronizing intent.

That's good to know.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

Your statements alluded to your experiences, but can easily be read to apply to stone butches and transmen in general.

Only by someone who wishes to believe that I make blanket statements, since my entire post--which you chose to quote without context--was a response to this post, which I quote again for your convenience.

Originally Posted by Converse

Cocky hmmmm…perhaps I was just trying to be helpful

I like the “energy circuit” analogy- thank you for articulating it. The discussion around Stone is always interesting; with some wishing to make it a debate about politics and ideologies, and others making it about psychological hurdles concerned with body image and trust. But for me when the conversation involves Stone being a deliberate intellectual choice, or that it is a symptom of something that requires curing i.e. “melting the Stone”, I am at a loss.

It is simply who I am, it is not an activity or a set of guidelines that are followed when the bedroom door is closed- it is who I am when I sit across the dinner table from you, it is who I am when my opinion or advice is sought, it is who I am when I greet or walk beside you. We can only really understand the world from the shoes in which we stand- and although my boots are Stone, they are not heavy or uncomfortable; they instead make me sure footed, connected, confident.

Anybody can change their behaviour; ignoring the fact that I would probably be sporting a twisted ankle within minutes, I’m sure for example I could wear a pair of heels. But as disorientating as that might be to any onlooker, it would be nothing compared to the degree of alienation that I would feel about myself. Can I explain why? No not really- all I know is that is who I am. It feels right and as natural as hmmmm… stone.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

The way your opening sentence is constructed implies not that it is true of only the stone butches and transmen that you have encountered, but that it is these particular qualities which have drawn you to stone butches and transmen (in general). That is a logical reading of the way you actually worded your sentence, which is why I phrased mine as a clarification.

My opening sentence was the word "YES," so I think you might mean the first sentence you quoted.

Converse said, "But as disorientating as that might be to any onlooker, it would be nothing compared to the degree of alienation that I would feel about myself. Can I explain why? No not really- all I know is that is who I am. It feels right and as natural as hmmmm… stone. " and I replied directly to that statement, "One of the things which draws me to both Stone Butches and Transmen is this kind of self-awareness and self-confidence, this (usually hard-won) knowledge...."

I will reiterate that I acknowledged the confidence and self-awareness are usually hard-won, which right there says that it is a struggle for many Stone Butches and Transmen to get to that place--which in any logical reading serves as notice that all Stone Butches and Transmen are NOT in the same place at the same time.

If you choose to read some sort of blanket statement into my post despite my acknowledgement of this, then you are choosing to ignore the reality of what I actually said.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

I suspected that I knew what you meant, and that others might as well, but I wanted it to be damn clear, just as your response to me here has been infinitely more qualifying than your original post.

No, it hasn't. I said the same thing twice. You simply didn't see it until the second time, I suspect because the second time I was speaking directly to you instead of to Converse.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

Your original statements were far more general than these. Had you posted this way initially, I wouldn't have been compelled to say what I did.

My original statements were not general, they were a direct answer to someone else's post. Had I posted this way initially, I would have been speaking to you instead of to Converse, but it was Converse who was speaking to me, and it was my choice to answer.

It seems you missed that context.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

My reply had nothing to do with presumed ignorance, and everything to do with clarity. You have met some evolved individuals, but there is no correlation between their gender/sexual identity and their emotional evolution as a general condition. I simply wanted to make that very clear, otherwise, the implication is that others (with different identities) are less so (which I'm sure you would recognize as being offensive).

Since when is the universe such a binary place that a simple acknowledgement of one kind of person automatically tarnishes all other people?

Let us be EXTREMELY clear, here: that is YOUR attitude and not mine. You are the one who is stating that if people state they value something, they are automatically devaluing everything else; you are the one who is not allowing for people's ability to value many things at the same time.

In MY universe, there are exemplary people everywhere. There is no either/or; I will not nor have I EVER stated, insinuated, or implied that if one kind of person is good all other kinds of people are bad or somehow "less than." Anyone who can read such a heinously limited and limiting thought in a simple acknowledgement that the Stone Butches and Transmen who attract me have self-awareness and confidence is reading what they wish or expect to see instead of reading what I actually said.

Again I repeat, it is YOUR assumption that if people say they value one kind of person, that statement automatically devalues all other kinds of persons. Your very binary either/or assumption has nothing to do with the reality of my post.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

If, as individuals, we are able to reach a state in which our emotional maturity and our gender/sexual identity are on parallel tracks, then we are fortunate creatures, indeed.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

I do very much appreciate the opportunity to engage in this dialogue, thank you.

It doesn't seem like a dialogue to me. It seems like I am being taken to task for things which I have not said--being forced to defend my words and even my attitudes, instead of being allowed to participate in the conversation. I dislike being "schooled," most especially when it derails the conversation and discourages other people from posting.

You might wish to consider that had you simply posted, "Self-awareness takes a lot of hard work" or "I haven't found that all Stone Butches are self-aware and confident," or some such similarly non-judgmental statement that I would have most willingly engaged in an entirely more pleasant dialogue with you.