Sexism in Technology

[Medusa]

I was having a discussion the other night with a geeky friend and recalled various themes of sexism I have encountered at different levels of technology.

One good example of this is that I am a member of several other forums, several of which have nothing to do with gender, Queer, etc. On one of these forums I chose a screen name that is gender-neutral. I have posted on those forums for several months, having conversations on various topics, talking about my likes and dislikes. A few weeks ago, I became involved in a rather heated conversation with another woman. After several heated exchanges, several folks started coming into the thread telling me that I "ought to be ashamed of myself" for speaking to a woman that way and that I was NOT a gentleman. I was puzzled. Most of the people who made these statements were folks I had interacted with several times. After private messaging with a few of them, I was told that most everyone on the site had assumed I was a man because of my "stern way of communicating and articulation around topics that mostly men are concerned with" (like politics??? seriously??)

This wasnt the first time this had happened to me - that people had assumed I was a man by my written communication style. That, because I am a woman, they expected me to communicate online in a certain way?

Anyone else have this happen? Any Trans Males notice a difference in communications online since transitioning? Any Butches who have noticed this?

Some other issues that might be relevant to sexism in technology:

* The notoriously sexist advertising for GoDaddy.com
* Sexist hiring practices in the tech field?

Let's talk!

[Waldo]

Oh girl... don't even get me started with the Godaddy BS.

As you know I work in the domain name space. I run a domain name company. I deal with it online and in person All. The. Time.

I'm a member at several domain related forums under my real name and just a couple of months ago someone recommended a poster reach out to "Kellie at Name.com, she's awesome and will help you out in a snap". That poster was promptly "corrected" and told that Kellie was a man. Sigh.

I get it on another forum on a much more regular basis and you guessed it - I have a gender neutral user name. Even though I have "female-ish" listed as my gender. Seems communication styles do, indeed, play a major role in gender identification online.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Waldo

Oh girl... don't even get me started with the Godaddy BS.

As you know I work in the domain name space. I run a domain name company. I deal with it online and in person All. The. Time.

I'm a member at several domain related forums under my real name and just a couple of months ago someone recommended a poster reach out to "Kellie at Name.com, she's awesome and will help you out in a snap". That poster was promptly "corrected" and told that Kellie was a man. Sigh.

I get it on another forum on a much more regular basis and you guessed it - I have a gender neutral user name. Even though I have "female-ish" listed as my gender. Seems communication styles do, indeed, play a major role in gender identification online.

YAY! I was hoping you would chime in!

I was wondering, Kellie, do you ever talk to someone on the phone with your job and when they meet you in person, they have a noticeable reaction to the fact that you arent in a skirt and heels?

[SassyLeo]

Interesting topic. Good idea.

I'll first say, I am by no means an Engineer or DBA or Sys Admin.

But there is a small part of me which is technically savvy enough to hook up tech stuff/audio equipment/internet in my apt. Purchase and install memory in my own and others' laptops, repair/install the wifi at my mom's house while on vacation over Thanksgiving. Do some mild database work and create graphics/collateral for my job. General easy tech-y stuff.

AND (the big AND) I sometimes think they are surprised that I can. Not my family, per se, but work folks. I am sure some of it is because IT is typically a male dominated profession, but it used to piss me off that there was this perception that because I am a woman and not in an IT role, that I would be incapable of doing ANYTHING technical. The assumptions are frustrating. However, now that they have learned I can figure stuff out, folks in my dept generally call me to fix their computer issues before calling tech support. 9/10 of the time, I can do it.

And it doesn't help that we have people in much higher roles than mine, like the Controller...who can barely even use Excel. Not helping the stereotype, in my opinion. However, I guess I should be grateful the Controller is a woman

[Medusa]

And I cant tell you how many times I have heard that I "hired PapaChris or Linus to build this site"

(but that might be because people think Im stupid, not a woman)

[Selenay]

Originally Posted by Medusa

And I cant tell you how many times I have heard that I "hired PapaChris or Linus to build this site"

(but that might be because people think Im stupid, not a woman)

actually it's cuz you're from ar-kansas.

[PapaC]

Originally Posted by Medusa

And I cant tell you how many times I have heard that I "hired PapaChris or Linus to build this site"

(but that might be because people think Im stupid, not a woman)

I heard someone call my name.

whatever improvements there might have been in the last 20 years in Technology, is still not enough. IT is predominately dominated by men, and I'd personally be lying if I said that I wasn't aware of it on a cellular level when I stepped further into this career path (of sorts).

Even though, most of my bosses and clients and co-workers (like my ex gf) are women, and I've got some amazing work history with some pretty smart IT women (they're like blow your fuckin' minds smart), the image is still male, the brute force of numbers of geek still reads MALE, the only real advance I'm seeing is Marketing (how ironic). The marketing people have figured out that women have similar levels of interest in goods and services related to IT.

But sorry, do I believe that sexism is improving in IT?

Would you like to know how fuckin happy I'll be if I ever work on internet phone support again, that I *won't* be asked on a date or offered flowers or ask if I'm married or have a boyfriend?

:glare:

Thanks Selly, really,.... pointing me to this thread didn't give me happy joy joy feelings

(but you knew that didn't you).

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by Medusa

YAY! I was hoping you would chime in!

I was wondering, Kellie, do you ever talk to someone on the phone with your job and when they meet you in person, they have a noticeable reaction to the fact that you arent in a skirt and heels?

It used to happen all the time. But now that I'm a higher profile person word has gotten out that I'm a dyke. And I'm visible on the web as well so people tend to Google me and aren't as obvious.

When I was working the phones years ago I used to get all sorts of BS. Before that I worked in video retail and regularly got hassled by guys who loved my voice and would call to ask about adult films, etc. Even had guys sending me flowers and other "gifts" completely unsolicited. Sigh.

My favorite personal experience was several years ago when I was working transfer support for a hosting company in New Mexico (by the way - working for a man I now employ!) and I was on a call with a "gentleman" who said "Honey, you don't know what you're talking about. Let me talk to a guy. Any guy." and I turned him over to my boss who politely listened and then said "Sir, let me have you speak to Kellie again - she's the expert in this area and can help you out." And I never had a problem with that customer again.

NotAnAverageGuy - I think you might be confusing using sex to sell with sexism. Yes, both men and women are used to sell products. The difference comes in when you look at the context.

It makes sense to see a man or a woman in underwear when that's what you're selling. If you're selling a domain name or web hosting please explain to me why tits and ass come into play?

[MsDemeanor]

Why is that so often when we talk about things like violence against women, someone says "you know, it happens to men once in a while too", and we find ourselves on the defensive? It's not prevalent, it's not widely accepted by society, and it's not a valid argument. I say enough of that bullshit!

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Why is that so often when we talk about things like violence against women, someone says "you know, it happens to men once in a while too", and we find ourselves on the defensive? It's not prevalent, it's not widely accepted by society, and it's not a valid argument. I say enough of that bullshit!

The answer is simple, really. It's not pleasant but it's simple.

[Selenay]

Let's talk about advertisements.







Both women look, um, real happy to be there, huh?

The woman in the first looks visibly distressed and the second, well..
Not really sure what that's selling.

Or even better, this one



Because women without minds, thoughts or actions of their own is really what I want!

I could go On And On but I'll pause here and come back when I'm less scattered

[Medusa]

BRILLIANT examples!

The first two are particularly violent. Im going to look for an ad that I remember seeing several years back to add to the collection.

Keep them coming, Selly!

[Medusa]

Or this one from Dell:




I can hear the ad exec meetings now:

Ad exec 1: "I cant think of any good ideas to sell this computer!"

Ad exec 2: "Just stick a pretty woman on it!"

[Selenay]

[Selenay]

And while I'm on the subject...

Let's talk about science. When you google image "scientist" this is the first image of an actual (not cartoon, not VI) man




This is the first woman:




This is the first male computer geek alone (the second image on the page, the first being a cartoon rendering):



This is the first image that comes up for a woman alone under the same search:

[Selenay]

Currently, 15 FORTUNE 500 companies are run by women, and a total of 28 FORTUNE 1000 companies have women in the top job.

Of these, the highest ranking woman places 27th in the list.


When one looks at computer science in particular, however, the proportion of women has been falling. In 2001-2, only 28 percent of all undergraduate degrees in computer science went to women. By 2004-5, the number had declined to only 22 percent. Data collected by the Computing Research Association showed even fewer women at research universities like M.I.T.: women accounted for only 12 percent of undergraduate degrees in computer science and engineering in the United States and Canada granted in 2006-7 by Ph.D.-granting institutions, down from 19 percent in 2001-2. Many computer science departments report that women now make up less than 10 percent of the newest undergraduates.


I would go on but I gots thangz. Maybe later.


Sources:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...009/womenceos/
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/business/16digi.html

[NotAnAverageGuy]

I guess I am rather odd when it comes to sexism, I personally do not see anything wrong with the ads for things, sex sells for alot of products and it works, people gobble up certain products simply because of what the ad has displayed.

But what about the male underwear models? Isn't that sexism too?

I don't partake in technology so I am not much for conversation when it comes to that topic but I put my 2 cents in when I have an opinion.

[Selenay]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

But what about the male underwear models? Isn't that sexism too?

I don't partake in technology so I am not much for conversation when it comes to that topic but I put my 2 cents in when I have an opinion.

How can you POSSIBLY see male underwear models as being on the same PLANET as a woman on satin sheets in underwear with a BULLET IN HER HEAD selling a VIDEO GAME?

You're on a computer which automatically puts you in a category in which you use technology.


Good Lord I don't even know what else to say.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by Selenay

How can you POSSIBLY see male underwear models as being on the same PLANET as a woman on satin sheets in underwear with a BULLET IN HER HEAD selling a VIDEO GAME?

You're on a computer which automatically puts you in a category in which you use technology.


Good Lord I don't even know what else to say.

Use of a computer is technology but if you are talking about IT fields, etc I have no knowledge.

But I see anything that is sexual in any nature such as underwear models, the pics you posted on here, etc as sexism of both genders. But thats just my opinion.

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

I guess I am rather odd when it comes to sexism, I personally do not see anything wrong with the ads for things, sex sells for alot of products and it works, people gobble up certain products simply because of what the ad has displayed.

But what about the male underwear models? Isn't that sexism too?

You do not see anything wrong with a woman in her underwear on a bed with a PSP game controller plugged into her belly telling the viewer to "dream of a better world"?

Can you not see the objectification of women in that? That women are simply sex toys to be plugged in and controlled? That a "better world" consists of controllable women who just want to be used?

It may also be sexist to show a man in his underwear but I challenge you to find one that will deliver the same message about being controlled and being an object as that particular one does.