Sexism in Technology

[Waldo]

Oh girl... don't even get me started with the Godaddy BS.

As you know I work in the domain name space. I run a domain name company. I deal with it online and in person All. The. Time.

I'm a member at several domain related forums under my real name and just a couple of months ago someone recommended a poster reach out to "Kellie at Name.com, she's awesome and will help you out in a snap". That poster was promptly "corrected" and told that Kellie was a man. Sigh.

I get it on another forum on a much more regular basis and you guessed it - I have a gender neutral user name. Even though I have "female-ish" listed as my gender. Seems communication styles do, indeed, play a major role in gender identification online.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Waldo

Oh girl... don't even get me started with the Godaddy BS.

As you know I work in the domain name space. I run a domain name company. I deal with it online and in person All. The. Time.

I'm a member at several domain related forums under my real name and just a couple of months ago someone recommended a poster reach out to "Kellie at Name.com, she's awesome and will help you out in a snap". That poster was promptly "corrected" and told that Kellie was a man. Sigh.

I get it on another forum on a much more regular basis and you guessed it - I have a gender neutral user name. Even though I have "female-ish" listed as my gender. Seems communication styles do, indeed, play a major role in gender identification online.

YAY! I was hoping you would chime in!

I was wondering, Kellie, do you ever talk to someone on the phone with your job and when they meet you in person, they have a noticeable reaction to the fact that you arent in a skirt and heels?

[SassyLeo]

Interesting topic. Good idea.

I'll first say, I am by no means an Engineer or DBA or Sys Admin.

But there is a small part of me which is technically savvy enough to hook up tech stuff/audio equipment/internet in my apt. Purchase and install memory in my own and others' laptops, repair/install the wifi at my mom's house while on vacation over Thanksgiving. Do some mild database work and create graphics/collateral for my job. General easy tech-y stuff.

AND (the big AND) I sometimes think they are surprised that I can. Not my family, per se, but work folks. I am sure some of it is because IT is typically a male dominated profession, but it used to piss me off that there was this perception that because I am a woman and not in an IT role, that I would be incapable of doing ANYTHING technical. The assumptions are frustrating. However, now that they have learned I can figure stuff out, folks in my dept generally call me to fix their computer issues before calling tech support. 9/10 of the time, I can do it.

And it doesn't help that we have people in much higher roles than mine, like the Controller...who can barely even use Excel. Not helping the stereotype, in my opinion. However, I guess I should be grateful the Controller is a woman

[Medusa]

And I cant tell you how many times I have heard that I "hired PapaChris or Linus to build this site"

(but that might be because people think Im stupid, not a woman)

[Selenay]

Originally Posted by Medusa

And I cant tell you how many times I have heard that I "hired PapaChris or Linus to build this site"

(but that might be because people think Im stupid, not a woman)

actually it's cuz you're from ar-kansas.

[WILDCAT]

Although this is "hardly" my area of expertise...

I will say the same theme, through administration in time, big corporations of any product, and now into the very technical fields there always appears to remain the toughest challange for women to prove themselves. Any field, it seems - where "advancement" may be giving credit to women...(?)

Hell, only fifty years ago - most women were still expected to just be housewives.

The tit mousepads... a bit offensive. I'm sure there are "other kinds" as well... (No thanks.)

And Medusa, you're an assertive women. Powerful women are unfortunately [still at times] considered only aggressive bitches - but, when it's a man in the same exact work situation EVEN being "aggressive" then (!), "he's one hell of a good strong intelligent employee/leader" in his field (heck, in this world).

That's the way I see it anyway - in a very generalized way. (I think Japan is better now in the technical field for sharing credit with women - I could be mistaken though.) We might be giving more now to women in the medical fields with technical advancements though... (?) I have a relative who recently began a field in cancer research.

The advertisements here are atrocious. (Frightening actually.)

My sister works for Intel. I'll have to get a quick opinion sex ratio from her (then their stats), for the higher paid positions. But, you're also talking about attitudes. Stat that (?) At least I know where she is they are a bit progressive with regards towards gay employees. Well, gay men, I'm not sure if it's equal in attitude with gay women. I'm not sure about transsexuals. I will "dig" around a bit with her.

How did you feel being referred to or assumed a gentleman [not?] Medusa?


WILD


Just my wooden nickel's worth anyway for a good thread start. Good luck.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by WILDCAT

My sister works for Intel. I'll have to get a quick opinion sex ratio from her (then their stats), for the higher paid positions. But, you're also talking about attitudes. Stat that (?) At least I know where she is they are a bit progressive with regards towards gay employees. Well, gay men, I'm not sure if it's equal in attitude with gay women. I'm not sure about transsexuals. I will "dig" around a bit with her.

WILD


Just my wooden nickel's worth anyway for a good thread start. Good luck.

I can bet, as I work with a large corporation that is up-and-coming in the software world, the higher Board of Director positions will be rarely women. Women in IT aren't really known. In fact, can you name any? You can name Bill Gates, Woz, Jobs, Torvalds but do you know of Ada Lovelace (first programmer), Grace Hopper (created COBOL language that's used in the majority of banks and other large institutions as the main language; this was also the language that caused all that stir about Y2K), Susan Kare (did all those graphics for icons and such on the Apple when it first appeared), Sally Floyd (worked on TCP, part of the protocols that built the internet) and so on.. Heck, there was Carly Fiorina, CEO of HP who walked out when she fought with the board and even my own company's first CEO, Diane Green, who also left after differences of opinion.

When I was an instructor at a private IT school, the majority of networking admin types (non-programmers) were guys. Very few women went through the course (odd since network admin requires more human contact and socialization if we're to look at gender roles and how communications are done) while programming (often a solitary job) was nearly or over 50% women.

Although IT tries to come across as being whacky and unique and not necessarily caring about gender, the reality is true. We expect IT support, admins and engineers to be men. We expect answers from men and the image of a geek is either the nerdy Matthew Broderick (see Wargames) or, if a woman, it's Angelina Jolie (Hackers). It's interesting that Sandra Bullock's character from The Net isn't something that comes to mind for people when thinking about women in science.

It's interesting that Google came up with those images as it's contrary to what I envisioned. When I think of scientist my first thought is an older woman in a lab coat. Bing's search results were similar but their first female images are better than the ones listed here. I know that there are (were?) programs in place to encourage women into math and sciences more but those programs don't seem as prominent as they used to be. Are they still in place?

[PapaC]

Originally Posted by Medusa

And I cant tell you how many times I have heard that I "hired PapaChris or Linus to build this site"

(but that might be because people think Im stupid, not a woman)

I heard someone call my name.

whatever improvements there might have been in the last 20 years in Technology, is still not enough. IT is predominately dominated by men, and I'd personally be lying if I said that I wasn't aware of it on a cellular level when I stepped further into this career path (of sorts).

Even though, most of my bosses and clients and co-workers (like my ex gf) are women, and I've got some amazing work history with some pretty smart IT women (they're like blow your fuckin' minds smart), the image is still male, the brute force of numbers of geek still reads MALE, the only real advance I'm seeing is Marketing (how ironic). The marketing people have figured out that women have similar levels of interest in goods and services related to IT.

But sorry, do I believe that sexism is improving in IT?

Would you like to know how fuckin happy I'll be if I ever work on internet phone support again, that I *won't* be asked on a date or offered flowers or ask if I'm married or have a boyfriend?

:glare:

Thanks Selly, really,.... pointing me to this thread didn't give me happy joy joy feelings

(but you knew that didn't you).

[Bob]

For a really fascinating read, try "Making Programming Masculine" - http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~nathanen/files/cbi-gender.pdf . Sort of a history of how IT started out female-dominated in the 1940s and became ever more a boysport over time.

[Selenay]

Originally Posted by PapaC

Would you like to know how fuckin happy I'll be if I ever work on internet phone support again, that I *won't* be asked on a date or offered flowers or ask if I'm married or have a boyfriend?

:glare:

Thanks Selly, really,.... pointing me to this thread didn't give me happy joy joy feelings

(but you knew that didn't you).

I would buy you flowers, but they'd be really manly ones, like...
I don't know.



These.


I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden. . . .

[PapaC]

Thanks Selly, but I happen to love tulips.
of all colours.

I was born in a land full of tulips

Signed,

-the manly one

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by Medusa

YAY! I was hoping you would chime in!

I was wondering, Kellie, do you ever talk to someone on the phone with your job and when they meet you in person, they have a noticeable reaction to the fact that you arent in a skirt and heels?

It used to happen all the time. But now that I'm a higher profile person word has gotten out that I'm a dyke. And I'm visible on the web as well so people tend to Google me and aren't as obvious.

When I was working the phones years ago I used to get all sorts of BS. Before that I worked in video retail and regularly got hassled by guys who loved my voice and would call to ask about adult films, etc. Even had guys sending me flowers and other "gifts" completely unsolicited. Sigh.

My favorite personal experience was several years ago when I was working transfer support for a hosting company in New Mexico (by the way - working for a man I now employ!) and I was on a call with a "gentleman" who said "Honey, you don't know what you're talking about. Let me talk to a guy. Any guy." and I turned him over to my boss who politely listened and then said "Sir, let me have you speak to Kellie again - she's the expert in this area and can help you out." And I never had a problem with that customer again.

NotAnAverageGuy - I think you might be confusing using sex to sell with sexism. Yes, both men and women are used to sell products. The difference comes in when you look at the context.

It makes sense to see a man or a woman in underwear when that's what you're selling. If you're selling a domain name or web hosting please explain to me why tits and ass come into play?

[MsDemeanor]

Why is that so often when we talk about things like violence against women, someone says "you know, it happens to men once in a while too", and we find ourselves on the defensive? It's not prevalent, it's not widely accepted by society, and it's not a valid argument. I say enough of that bullshit!

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Why is that so often when we talk about things like violence against women, someone says "you know, it happens to men once in a while too", and we find ourselves on the defensive? It's not prevalent, it's not widely accepted by society, and it's not a valid argument. I say enough of that bullshit!

The answer is simple, really. It's not pleasant but it's simple.

[Arwen]

Okay, so I looked at those ads. Some of them are violent. Others are just more objectification of women. The border patrol one is horrific. That's not violence against men. That's the sexy female cop with her bra showing and her panties "just there". http://www.genderads.com/Vio._Ag._Males.html#24 is another one that is a man hitting his shadow or a woman's shadow. How is that violence against a man?

The fact remains that those in power really can not be lessened or controlled by those images.

Women are used as bait in advertising. A good marketing campaign can create a sexual response in a non-sexual item such as a car or a powertool. Throw a bikini-clad babe at it and you have an attention-getter.

Honestly, if I were male, I'd be insulted that my libido was thought to be the only thing that drives me.

Kellie, I had many of those calls where they thought I was the RECEPTIONIST! Grrrrr. Made me want to break their computer rather than fix it.

[Waldo]

This morning I was reminded about the woman who hired me into the company I now run. Anyone ever experience this?

Woman hires me and when I actually do great she moves from supportive and encouraging to hostile and undermining - eventually to the point of screaming at me and blaming me for her poor decisions in front of not just staff, but also customers.

Why is it that some women see other driven and successful women as such threats?