For the Love of Intentions!!

[Girl_On_Fire]

Okay...once upon a time I was new here and I started a thread (which shall remain nameless) asking what I believed to be an innocent question. Some saw this thread as an opportunity to start a dialogue while others treated my thread with all the delicacy of a hungry lion attacking a gazelle.

Anyway, as I spend more time on this site, I notice other newbies falling into this same situation. A new person joins the board. A question is asked. It is quite obvious (at least to me) that the intention is to receive knowledge about a subject or get a different perspective. There is nothing in the thread to indicate this new person is trying to be a provocateur.

Almost immediately, one or two of the responses are "Oh, you're in for an education about [insert topic here]." And then the "education" begins with the incredibly detailed picking apart of said question until it looks as though the intention was a purposeful yet thinly-veiled attack on lesbian/butch/femme/trans culture.

Why is that? Is it really just me or does nobody look at intention? Are we all just sitting up in the trees like vultures waiting for the first opportunity for somebody to step one toe out an imaginary line of so-called decorum? Are we that over-sensitive?

Being in the LBGT community already comes with enough doors being slammed in our faces for one reason or another. For some, boards like this are the last port in a storm for understanding and community.

Is there a reason we so easily and sometimes vehemently turn on each other?

I'd like to start an open discussion about this. Maybe unravel a few layers and go deeper into what could possibly be a much larger issue than what happens on this board.

[Words]

This reminds me of something that my partner said the other day, i.e., that when you join a site like this one, you join with your own level of 'education', which in some cases, will be 'higher' than that of many others. Take U/us for example. He came out in the 70s when He was 17/18, whereas I didn't come out until 1999 when I was 40, so even in O/our case, we have a different level of 'education' when it comes to all things queer. (Example: it was only through watching a documentary on Disco the other night that I discovered - and remember here that I'm not from the States - that Disco was born in the States amongst the gay/black community. I'd never even thought of its origins before, never realized that Disco was initially some kind of political statement/movement.)

So I think that what happens is that in some cases, we - the collective we - respond in not so nice/patient a manner one, because we've simply lost sight of the fact that we're all at different levels in terms of our 'education', or two, because we're simply bored with answering the same questions/discussing the same topics over and over again. I certainly know from personal experience that the more I'm 'around' the Planet, the harder it is to find threads that interest me because in a lot of cases, they deal with issues that have already been discussed to death, either here or elsewhere. However, I am aware of the fact that for a lot of other people, these are new topics and threads from which they can learn something so I basically have two choices, one, to find other ways to amuse/stimulate myself (easy option), or two, to open discussions relating to topics that to me, are still valid/important/interesting (slightly harder option). What isn't an option for me is to expect someone else do do the work (just like you've done here).

Hope that makes sense.

Words

[girl_dee]

Maybe that's why they've changed the rule on starting new threads, (having so many posts before doing so) so that people can get a feel for things or realize there is already a thread out there for what they want. (multiple threads on the same subject bothers me a great deal!)

But i have seen this happen (to me ! ) when asking questions in a discussion. i asked a question and then there was a mild attack, then a person of reason wrote in an informative manner and i truly got educated.

We have also disingenuous folks starting threads for some crazy reasons, same reason an arsonist starts a fire and watches it burn. One person made us the subject of a project she was working on at school So we may be a bit defensive sometimes.

i try to give people the benefit of the doubt, and assume the person really just wants to know.

in my lifestyle (leather) many folks are curious and thats all good as long as they present themselves in a a respectful manner i am always willing to answer questions but that usually comes in private.

Nice thread!

[weatherboi]

I think people challenge ideas not the people posting the ideas. Everybody has a reaction, some will challenge back, some will golden flounce, some will retreat and never be heard from again, some will hold on to it for a long, long time, and some will deflect defensively and take it personally.

I don't think people get attacked, and I certainly don't think it is worthy of painting it in such a manner that it depicts community members like animals. We all end up in the hot seat, including me. Anybody remember the tap thread? I felt many things but never once thought I was being attacked. When people post words like "attacked", "bullied", "clique", "piled" on I tend to tune out due to the self victimization that coils around that pattern. If posts continually insinuate racist, sexist, sizeist, or any isms, I may or may not, but probably will, question intent.

If assuming a posters intent behind an idea is not ok then why is it ok to assume what space a poster is posting from?? Are you on the other side of the computer with them? Do you speak to them in real time and know what emotional space they are posting from? General you!!!

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

I think people challenge ideas not the people posting the ideas. Everybody has a reaction, some will challenge back, some will golden flounce, some will retreat and never be heard from again, some will hold on to it for a long, long time, and some will deflect defensively and take it personally.

I don't think people get attacked, and I certainly don't think it is worthy of painting it in such a manner that it depicts community members like animals. We all end up in the hot seat, including me. Anybody remember the tap thread? I felt many things but never once thought I was being attacked. When people post words like "attacked", "bullied", "clique", "piled" on I tend to tune out due to the self victimization that coils around that pattern. If posts continually insinuate racist, sexist, sizeist, or any isms, I may or may not, but probably will, question intent.

If assuming a posters intent behind an idea is not ok then why is it ok to assume what space a poster is posting from?? Are you on the other side of the computer with them? Do you speak to them in real time and know what emotional space they are posting from? General you!!!

Ohhh the Tap thread, long time ago but yes i remember.

For me when it happens to me, and more so when i was new to the forums, it felt like a personal attack to *me*. i am glad to know that's not true for some others. Hey i'm not saying i didn't learn anything, but the process felt harsh to me.

One thing that is missing from the written word is tone. It's hard to read tone and i admit that i am one that takes things personal. My words sometimes don't reflect my feelings/thoughts. Once i meet someone we can read each other completely different on the forums.

If something i said is up for challenge, it feels personal to me. i am working on this. i want to assume the person has a good intention, instead i am guilty of taking it personal and getting defensive. Character flaw. .

[thedivahrrrself]

I think much of this behavior has to do with people not being willing to look at another person's perspective and understand it. You see through your own glass, and you can't take them off and look through someone else's for a moment.

Take the word "Southern" for example. For me, this word conjures memories of my grandparents, the patchwork quilt of land going by as we drove to them, summers in Georgia spent picking fresh blackberries and making them into pies, stuffing myself with cornbread and delicious food, generous hospitality and impeccable manners. For others, this conjures up memories of a time when the military had to be present just to let a little black girl walk into school. Or how a group of evil parents in Mississippi decided to hold a completely separate prom just so the lesbian wouldn't be invited. One is not right or wrong, they are all true, just a matter of individual perspective. But I have seen this word picked apart in so many threads, like we can all just assume it has only one meaning.

I myself have not experienced the behavior described above, that I can recall, but I am also pretty good at defending my words and thoughts. I can certainly remember times where I felt someone who maybe just wasn't very good with words appeared to be pummeled into submission (so to speak), where even though I may not have agreed with them, I felt sorry for them. I have no qualms calling out racism, homophobia, etc. but I try to do so in a way that will engage the offender and help them come to some rational conclusion on their own, rather than trying to force my own way of thinking. But I guess I put a lot more faith in the Socratic method than the soapbox.

[Girl_On_Fire]

Originally Posted by Words

What isn't an option for me is to expect someone else do do the work (just like you've done here).

Hope that makes sense.

Words

Everything you said made perfect sense to me except for the sentence I quoted. Others to do "the work"? How does this thread ask anyone to do "work" for me?

My intention in starting this post is to figure out what it is about certain posts that trigger what looks like an attack or a written "rolling-of-eyes" so-to-speak.

I think what Words and girl_dee said does answer the question quite well (or part of it anyway).

The reason for the behavior I mentioned above is, from what I understand:

• Honest belief that someone is trying to start an arguement.
• The question has been done to death.
• Based on the life experience of the reader, the words written are genuinely offensive.

Okay, that clears things up a bit. Maybe some could just try to be more aware (as Words suggested) that everyone is at their own different level of education. Perhaps, instead of looking things up online, they need interaction and community to learn. Everybody learns differently and everybody has a different life experience.

As far as comparing people to animals, that's not literal. Of course I don't think anyone here is an actual vulture. It's an analogy. Vultures pick things apart in a rather painful way. I was painting a picture with words. I'm a writer. That's how my brain works. It wasn't meant to be offensive but to give perspective to how someone on the other end of some of these less-than-welcoming responses might feel.

I'm off for the weekend so I won't be able to check this thread but I hope the discussion continues. Maybe it will prompt a deeper look within for some to find out just where some of those 'hair-triggers' might be coming from. I'm no saint and am quite guilty of going off on people if they push my buttons. Because of that, I'm always looking within so I don't end up in that dreaded victim mentality.

[Words]

Originally Posted by Girl_On_Fire

Everything you said made perfect sense to me except for the sentence I quoted. Others to do "the work"? How does this thread ask anyone to do "work" for me?

My intention in starting this post is to figure out what it is about certain posts that trigger what looks like an attack or a written "rolling-of-eyes" so-to-speak.

SO sorry, I see now that I wasn't clear.

What I meant was, ''What isn't an option for me is to expect someone else do do the work (just like YOU'VE done the work here). In other words, I was commending, not criticizing.

Make sense now?

Words

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Words

SO sorry, I see now that I wasn't clear.

What I meant was, ''What isn't an option for me is to expect someone else do do the work (just like YOU'VE done the work here). In other words, I was commending, not criticizing.

Make sense now?

Words

Girl_On_Fire,

"Doing the work", means a person working through their privileges, isms, etc.

[Words]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Girl_On_Fire,

"Doing the work", means a person working through their privileges, isms, etc.

Not in this context it doesn't (see my post above).

Thanks

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by Girl_On_Fire

Okay...once upon a time I was new here and I started a thread (which shall remain nameless) asking what I believed to be an innocent question. Some saw this thread as an opportunity to start a dialogue while others treated my thread with all the delicacy of a hungry lion attacking a gazelle.

Anyway, as I spend more time on this site, I notice other newbies falling into this same situation. A new person joins the board. A question is asked. It is quite obvious (at least to me) that the intention is to receive knowledge about a subject or get a different perspective. There is nothing in the thread to indicate this new person is trying to be a provocateur.

Almost immediately, one or two of the responses are "Oh, you're in for an education about [insert topic here]." And then the "education" begins with the incredibly detailed picking apart of said question until it looks as though the intention was a purposeful yet thinly-veiled attack on lesbian/butch/femme/trans culture.

Why is that? Is it really just me or does nobody look at intention? Are we all just sitting up in the trees like vultures waiting for the first opportunity for somebody to step one toe out an imaginary line of so-called decorum? Are we that over-sensitive?

Being in the LBGT community already comes with enough doors being slammed in our faces for one reason or another. For some, boards like this are the last port in a storm for understanding and community.

Is there a reason we so easily and sometimes vehemently turn on each other?

I'd like to start an open discussion about this. Maybe unravel a few layers and go deeper into what could possibly be a much larger issue than what happens on this board.

I love the thread, thanks for starting it. I agree , and have seen it happen many times. You ask alot of good questions, that I myself would be interested in knowing the answers to.

[TruTexan]

Yeah, what Jagg said, I agree. I've read it in threads too. *shrugs*