I Don't Get It

[Turtle]

I don't get it

I am hoping for a place to discuss, respectfully of people’s feelings…
in the spirit of learning and growing…
things that the larger society seems agreed on, but that we don’t understand…
with hopes of developing a deeper understanding of why it is that we think what we do.


For instance – The play “Death of a Salesman” is currently on Broadway and has long been a popular play. I don’t like it. There are lots of things I don’t like, but lead me to other places and feelings, which I appreciate. This play doesn’t strike me that way.
Check Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_Salesman

On me - Sometimes I feel incredibly simple – as in, “that’s bad, don’t do it.” Sometimes I have a clarity, like, “I don’t want to live that way”…including to the detriment of my career path, but to the benefit of my soul…I like to think. And sometimes, I wonder what it is that I don’t understand about a situation…

On the play - If Willy Loman had an affair – admit it and move on, get divorced, stay married, have the discussion with your wife, your son who busted you…why let it fester for years ultimately tainting so much, suicide for insurance money…really? This helps? Is the tragedy supposed to have us feel better about our lives? Why is this play such a big deal…I don’t get it?

This thing about “Death of a Salesman” is real for me, I don’t get it. It’s not just an example for the first page of this thread. I am hoping to gain a deeper understanding of what I am missing…without getting slapped upside the head…I know I can be dense sometimes.

In hope of deeper understanding and growth…The “I don’t get it” thread. Please share and ask…what don’t you get?

[Turtle]

In hope of deeper understanding...

I don't understand why the play "Death of a Salesman" is popular and/or so important in the "mainstream" culture...which admittedly I am outside.

Can someone help me understand what it is I don't get about it?

[Julien]

Originally Posted by Turtle

In hope of deeper understanding...

I don't understand why the play "Death of a Salesman" is popular and/or so important in the "mainstream" culture...which admittedly I am outside.

Can someone help me understand what it is I don't get about it?

This play, I think, is about expectations and failed expectations a father has for his sons, wife, especially himself; expectations the sons have for the father and his failure to live up to those expectations. In fact in the eyes of the father, his pride and joy, Biff does not live up to those expectations he has rightly or wrongly placed upon him. We should ask is the bar raised too high, is there some sort of perfection that is sought but sorely missing out? No one is perfect, Willy and his family are archetypes for a family under the disillusionment and imperfection of humanity. I hope I don't get too convoluted here, but I think this is important to note the time period this play was written in and the ending of World War II. As well as a study of the tensions between fathers and sons and what they believe the other to be. This play is a drama a tragedy that is a study of this bond between the father and son and what happens when one is seen as a failure in the others eyes. Either by chance or by intent. I think it is a commentary many films and plays of this era comments on that being the rebellious youth against authority, even if that authority is corrupt in some way. Think James Dean's character in East of Eden. I have more to say but will leave it for now.

[Turtle]

Thanks, Julien. That helps a lot...

And - it is on Broadway now with huge popularity...or may that speak more to the acting? It is a major acting piece, difficult, painful, a great honor to play the part of Willy, but the role has a difficult impact on the actors real life.

I have been known to blow off "tradition" and conventional things...for me, the danger of "expectations," particularly those of parents upon children and the ramifications of failure have always been apparent to me...maybe this is why I have trouble with the play?

And maybe I should say, I grew up in the 60s and 70s when it was much more acceptable to challenge authority...maybe because of plays and movies like this and of the James Dean type.

Any other thoughts?

[Hollylane]

This is an interesting thread Turtle. I'd like to see what people's different takes are on Death of A Salesman. Being a Capricorn, I tend to logic things to death sometimes. So, I hear what you're saying, and Julien's take is interesting. Taking the time period into consideration is, in my opinion, a great place to start from, in understanding why this play appeals to some in a different way.

My frivolous "I don't get it"...

Frozen peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I don't get it.

Why does this appeal to some Americans? When I think about the fact that someone had the "creative" idea to market these to Americans. I immediately am concerned about the marketing's intended targets and how they arrived at this relationship with food. Hopefully I'm not offending anyone, but these are my honest thoughts about this food product, and I don't get why some people don't see the deeper issues surrounding convenience foods.

[LeftWriteFemme]

Turtle,

Thank you for this thread. I was having this discussion with a friend just the other night. She is a lover of drama and I am very selective of the drama I watch. If I don't feel it will help me move forward to a happier life I chose to avoid it. Death of a Salesman is on my avoid list for sure; my friend was suggesting I watch Glenn Gary Glenn Ross and when I asked her how I might benefit from watching this, her comment was.....the pain is so real. Personally, I've had enough real pain and am not looking for a refresher course. She has also recommended, Come Back Little Sheba.....it's not that I'm suggesting these aren't good films, I'm just saying they don't ring for me, say the way that, The Lion in Winter, does; it's drama, but I feel hopeful when I watch it.

I am a comedy watcher, but I will admit that I don't understand the attraction of The Three Stooges, I love the Marx Brothers, but the Stooges leave me cold.
Likewise, Woody the Woodpecker is something I don't understand, though I love The Animaniacs.

Again, thanks Turtle for this thread, there are so many things that strike a cord for some and not for others, it will be nice to hear from all sides.

[Julien]

Originally Posted by LeftWriteFemme

Turtle,

Thank you for this thread. I was having this discussion with a friend just the other night. She is a lover of drama and I am very selective of the drama I watch. If I don't feel it will help me move forward to a happier life I chose to avoid it. Death of a Salesman is on my avoid list for sure; my friend was suggesting I watch Glenn Gary Glenn Ross and when I asked her how I might benefit from watching this, her comment was.....the pain is so real. Personally, I've had enough real pain and am not looking for a refresher course. She has also recommended, Come Back Little Sheba.....it's not that I'm suggesting these aren't good films, I'm just saying they don't ring for me, say the way that, The Lion in Winter, does; it's drama, but I feel hopeful when I watch it.

I am a comedy watcher, but I will admit that I don't understand the attraction of The Three Stooges, I love the Marx Brothers, but the Stooges leave me cold.
Likewise, Woody the Woodpecker is something I don't understand, though I love The Animaniacs.

Again, thanks Turtle for this thread, there are so many things that strike a cord for some and not for others, it will be nice to hear from all sides.

I think it is an intellectual response versus an emotional response or even a superfiscial knee jerk response when it comes to comedy and what we like. I like wit better than slapstick and the turn of a phrase over someone having a building fall on them. However at this moment, I am thinking now how Charlie Chaplin was able to put the emotions of compassion into his films, without dialogue let alone sound. I can see that type of comedy because it's about self. I do not see the draw of the Three Stooges either, but that's just me. In terms of films I prefer the intellectual comedy of a Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy with it's witty banter and innuendo. You have to pay attention to it and it is subtle. I like that.

[Turtle]

Wow, Hollylane, I love peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, but I never heard of them frozen...hmmmmm. I take it these are being marketed at kids, who like, couldn't make their own P B & J sammiches and put 'em in the freezer?

LeftWriteFemme - when I was younger (I'm 53) I used to watch lots of "painful" tv & film; I think to feel, emote, think, sort things out, learn, develop an opinion on different situations...and now I will attempt to skip it if it if it is not new and different for me - more of the same ugliness is not to be added into my consciousness.

I like comedy that makes me laugh out loud (and slipping on banana peels ain't gonna do it for me) and comedy that makes me think and expand my boundaries - social commentary kind of stuff can being smart funny...and edgy.

And both you and Julien make me want to get to netflix...now I have to choose where to start...

Thanks again, Julien, we've all got a couple of hours before fireworks, even on the east coast...

[Talon]

I do not get the whole "Hummer limousine"....why?


*In response to the witty & clever (Marx brothers) v.s. good ol' slapstick (3 Stooges),
I can appreciate both types of humor for what they are, which is very different. It just depends upon my mood and the mindset I'm in at the time.


>Interesting thread idea, Turtle.

[lillith]

Hi, Turtle. I have much to say, but I will start with that I think it is rather ironic that you called this thread, "I don't get it." I think it is ironic because in Linda's last monologue (the last speaking part of the entire play), she states, ". . . I don't understand it." She says this a couple of times. Perhaps, that is the point. It is hard to understand the motives of one person when it seems to us that an easier path exists. We don't get any inner dialogue for Willy, so his motives have to be speculated. I think that is part of the reason this play is so powerful and still has the potential to affect contemporary audiences. Another part is that it is very human. It is written in a plain language that allows the audience to identify with the characters/situations. Maybe it is also that no matter the era or generation, each seeks to understand its place in society. *shrugs* There is a lot of analysis out there on this play, but it is all speculation.

[thedivahrrrself]

I don't get America's blind support for Israel.

I get why we need an ally in the Middle East. I get why some Americans identify with the plight of the Jewish people. I get why Israel exists as a state.

But I don't get why, when they shoot one of our own unarmed citizens at almost point blank range, on video, why our diplomats don't go postal on them, why our people don't get up in arms about that.

I don't get why we can look at the human rights injustices (which are, admittedly on both sides, but Israel is the more powerful player here) and just turn a blind eye, and keep sending more cash and weapons. I don't get why Palestinians aren't allowed to have things like band-aids and basic building materials.

I don't understand this game we play with Israel. It's like an accepted American position that we all support anything and everything the State of Israel does. Why do we get to question every other country's motives, but not theirs?

When the Arab Spring happened, everyone cheered for Muslims in Egypt, in Yemen - YAY! They have a right to democratically elect their own leaders! - but no one made the connection to Palestinians. I don't understand why they don't also have that same right.

I just don't get it.

[thedivahrrrself]

I also didn't get Napoleon Dynamite.

That movie made me feel old. I scratched my head through the whole thing.

[pinkgeek]

Re: Death of a Salesman - I can't help but think of Eugene O'Neil and Long Day's Journey into Night (written close to the same time period I believe). The Tyrones are another family suffering under the disillusionment and imperfections of life.

In my experience the value in these tragic plays is that they do mimic real life. If anyone could "just stop" or "just don't" etc. etc. there would be less poverty, disease, abuse etc, but that isn't how humans are wired. Perfect logic is interrupted by dreams, lust, greed, fear, shame and thus often imperfect choices are all that can be seen and certainly what is chosen.

If the only stories we told in theatre and books were stories of Happily.Ever.After where all the characters made all the logical choices it would not be art reflecting life - it would be art reflecting an illusions of perfection. (I'm sure the right wing would just love this concept!)

Your mileage may vary.

Originally Posted by Julien

This play, I think, is about expectations and failed expectations a father has for his sons, wife, especially himself; expectations the sons have for the father and his failure to live up to those expectations. In fact in the eyes of the father, his pride and joy, Biff does not live up to those expectations he has rightly or wrongly placed upon him. We should ask is the bar raised too high, is there some sort of perfection that is sought but sorely missing out? No one is perfect, Willy and his family are archetypes for a family under the disillusionment and imperfection of humanity. I hope I don't get too convoluted here, but I think this is important to note the time period this play was written in and the ending of World War II. As well as a study of the tensions between fathers and sons and what they believe the other to be. This play is a drama a tragedy that is a study of this bond between the father and son and what happens when one is seen as a failure in the others eyes. Either by chance or by intent. I think it is a commentary many films and plays of this era comments on that being the rebellious youth against authority, even if that authority is corrupt in some way. Think James Dean's character in East of Eden. I have more to say but will leave it for now.

[cinnamongrrl]

I came across this this very day.....I dont get....vegetarians who berate NON vegetarians for eating meat..to the point of leaving a dinner party because of the bad mojo at being around meat eaters..and yet they have down comforters and leather shoes...do they really think that the animals VOLUNTEERED these things for their use?? And just by the by....i am mostly vegetarian...and will attempt at being vegan soonly...but i refuse to be a nazi about it....I just cant stand hypocritical better than thou types....irks me to no end...thats my soap box session for the day

[Teddybear]

Originally Posted by cinnamongrrl563

I came across this this very day.....I dont get....vegetarians who berate NON vegetarians for eating meat..to the point of leaving a dinner party because of the bad mojo at being around meat eaters..and yet they have down comforters and leather shoes...do they really think that the animals VOLUNTEERED these things for their use?? And just by the by....i am mostly vegetarian...and will attempt at being vegan soonly...but i refuse to be a nazi about it....I just cant stand hypocritical better than thou types....irks me to no end...thats my soap box session for the day

Baby

Im so thankful that your NOT a nazi about it since I eat meat and do so around you. I love when you get all up in arms about something you care about.

Hey remember we r having a cook out tues and ur veggie burgers will have a place of honor AWAY from the meat

[Novelafemme]

I don't get bathing suits. I mean, if you're gonna get into the water, why have an article of clothing on when it's just gonna get wet?

And I'm still pondering frozen PB&J's.

I pretty much sit around all day wondering about everything under the sun, so this thread is awesome in my book!

[thedivahrrrself]

I would like to come out in favor of bathing suits. For those of us with less-than-perfect bodies who prefer them covered, wet or not.

[Novelafemme]

I'll admit, I'm a total nudist at heart.

[thedivahrrrself]

I might be too if I was skinny! LOL

As it stands, I'm only a household nudist.

[aishah]

i don't get napoleon dynamite, the anchorman, or kill bill.

i don't get why nationalism (which is a fairly recent development in human history which we now obsess over almost religiously) and fictional borders are more important to people than caring for other human beings or our survival/ability to thrive as a species.

novelafemme...in my skinnydipping experience, bathing suits are really helpful to hold the boobies down. but i'm all in favor of nudity and self-acceptance for every body...whether conventionally attractive or not