Tristan Taormino - loves butch girls

[thedivahrrrself]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I'm more offended when I see folks online/real time so easily use bitch when referring to Femmes/Women/Feminity then again I'm all about Girl Power!!!

Spice Girls anyone?

I like the word bitch. But I don't associate anything particularly negative with it. If you call me a bitch, obviously I intimidate you. That makes me smile. I got quite used to it when one of my best friends and I started calling each other Bitch in college.

"Hey, Bitch, how you doin'?"
"Bitch, you gotta see this!"

I guess you could say we were "taking it back".

She fit the word. She still does. She is competitive as hell, assertive, intimidating, aggressive, and unapologetic. I like those qualities. Long live the Great American Bitch!

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by thedivahrrrself

She fit the word. She still does. She is competitive as hell, assertive, intimidating, aggressive, and unapologetic. I like those qualities. Long live the Great American Bitch!

I like women who are competitive, assertive, intimidating, aggressive and unapologetic. Would never occur to me to call or see them as a bitch. I could see referring to them as my idol tho.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I meant more as in the ugly animalistic way bitch is used when referring to women.

Bitch in cultural circles as no big deal until it's flung in a derogatory or spit out by a male bodied person attempting to super impose their bullshit on women.

[thedivahrrrself]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I meant more as in the ugly animalistic way bitch is used when referring to women.

Bitch in cultural circles as no big deal until it's flung in a derogatory or spit out by a male bodied person attempting to super impose their bullshit on women.

I agree. Like I tell my straight friends, "I can say dyke, you can say lesbian. But nobody, anywhere outside the scientific community, can say homosexual. That shit is offensive."

[Soon]

Originally Posted by thedivahrrrself

I like the word bitch. But I don't associate anything particularly negative with it. If you call me a bitch, obviously I intimidate you. That makes me smile. I got quite used to it when one of my best friends and I started calling each other Bitch in college.

"Hey, Bitch, how you doin'?"
"Bitch, you gotta see this!"

I guess you could say we were "taking it back".

She fit the word. She still does. She is competitive as hell, assertive, intimidating, aggressive, and unapologetic. I like those qualities. Long live the Great American Bitch!

Those same qualities are revered in a man (esp. in the workplace) and, yet, those women who display such traits are negatively perceived, by some, as a bitch--a way of cutting her down to size, discouraging such traits in other women, and denigrating her achievements.


These qualities are only synonymous with the gendered word bitch when it is a woman who possesses them.

As far as reclamation of words amongst friends, I have no issues there, but it isn't for me.

As a high school teacher, I know how easy it is for some students to label some female teachers as a bitch where they give major kudos to the men who act/teach in a similar manner. Frustrating.

[starryeyes]

I thought it was hot!! <3

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I should have done a little more research myself LOL.

This quote is from an article she wrote for the Village Voice back in 1999 entitled: Of Butches, Kings, and Masculinity.

The exact quote is the first paragraph of the article and was cleaned up a bit.

" I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger. Girls who have dicks made of flesh and silicone and latex and magic. Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives. Girls who have big cocks, love blowjobs, and like to fuck girls hard. It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

Reading the paragraph within the context helps a lot. LOL. I can be such a freakin doofus.

The entire article is here: http://www.villagevoice.com/1999-10-...d-masculinity/

Thank you for finding the complete quote, Kobi. I remember reading that in the Voice when Tristan wrote it. That was nearly 15 years ago, and we were all much younger! This piece was incredibly subversive at the time.

Back then I was more sensitive to any man, gay or straight, who called me or any other woman 'girl'. I corrected them relentlessly because... well I really don't have to bother explaining it. Everyone knows why it was so demeaning coming from a man. It was an especially dangerous word to use on me back in the 1980s when I was struggling so hard to be treated with respect while working as a carpenter/stagehand. Now I really don't care about 'girl' when it's applied to me unless it's thrown down in a way that's designed to infantilise me.

On the other hand, I certainly still get twitchy when anyone who isn't one of us refers to a butch as 'girl'. It seems as if that person isn't seeing the butch for who she is, and that gets me all wound up. It's interesting to re-read this quote now, because at the time I never even noticed the use of 'girl'. I think I must have been too distracted by the erotic content.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by stonewalldog

I took the "girl" word as playful myself. The hair part reminds me to go get a trim. It's getting a bit shaggy. Otherwise, I thought it was great!

I always know when it's time to get a haircut.......people stop calling me sir.

Originally Posted by Tawse

Might I say... Tristan writes some very hot stuff... very... she's one of the top three on my list (along with Patrick Califia and Laura Antoniou)

I honestly took it as more poetic, creative writing than a statement in which the use of the word "girl" could be offensive. My mind thinks more in terms of the creative than the analytical....I would be far more in tune with something like....

"The heat of the day was oppressive and had driven her to her bedroom. Shrugging off her clothing, she slipped into a sheer pink camisole. “Well so what if it’s the middle of the day, she thought to herself as she went to pull closed the window shade, it’s too hot to wear or do anything else!” She heard hym before she saw hym. The old tractor rumbled as it bumped up the dirt road, throwing up clouds of dust as it went past. She peeked through the lace curtains hoping hy wouldn’t look up and catch her watching hym. Her breath caught as her eyes caressed hys body in the way that she wished that her hands could…… "

than I would had the verbiage been changed to add something about her pussy becoming sopping wet when she saw hym (which I find to be both uncomfortable and arrogant).


and your right....she does write some hot stuff.

[Dude]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I just need to pipe in and say that the word *girl* can be considered belittling/demeaning to those of us non-butches as well as it is often misapplied to adult women in general. When referring to adult males, the corresponding term of *boy* is rarely applied.

That being said, I don't believe the author of the quote is doing that here (being intentionally demeaning).

I just wanted to point out that the term *girl* is overused in general and can grate on all identities.

I got prickly when I tried to read what that woman wrote.
Something in me screeched to a halt and stopped reading.
So many things just do not fit for butches.
Lword? A show I tried to get excited about.
I saw the pictures of those women and said nope
thats not for you either lol and never watched.
Glamour butch , pretty butch, nope ,not hardly.
I'm fifty and need things to relate to and decided that
story was not for me
somewhere around the second sentence.

Several years back I tried "dating" a (girl) woman
who digs butches but she didn't understand or "get me".
(not a member on this site) She started an event thing
called girl on girl. Um no.
Not only am I so not a girl ,you will never hear me call
anyone that I'm involved with a "girl" or any form of it.
I am also not ok with the term boi or boy in terms of
describing me.
I hated being called a baby butch but way (WAY) back in the
day, I was one.

I prefer the company of women and hope that there are
femmes out there who still prefer the term woman
in describing themselves.
Words are important to me and some have deeper meanings
than others.

(To me) The word woman brings amazing thoughts and feelings,
that girl cant begin to come close to.
The scent of a woman
When I think woman I think captivating , well seasoned
and capable grown up.
I am very literal in my thinking and that's ok.
Is it an old school thang? Should I blame it on my mother?
Should I change my mentality? nahhh, it's just me.
I respect the word woman in a way I just cant respect girl.
An adult, grown, mature,woman (who is also very much a lady)
sounds like a dream come true (to me.)
There are people who hate the term lady and what that
implies too. To me, it means charming with a bit of demure that
oozes a confident wisdom and subtle sexiness.
Light on the "public" raunch (at least what can be seen..snort)
but worlds away from prudey.
Dare I say classy woman because classy grates
on some people too. My grandmother grew up a migrant worker and
had class for days ( what I speak of , is so not about the money )

different strokes and all that

slurpin my coffee with my pinkie out kind of butch

[Tawse]

and to me... girl and boi/y are used in an entirely different light... brings to mind eager submissives... (with nothing immature about them)


*le sigh

I think I will be rereading "the boy in the middle" now...

[dykeumentary]

"I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger... Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives... It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

If I read that in a personal ad, I would ask her out on a date in a new york minute.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I should have done a little more research myself LOL.

This quote is from an article she wrote for the Village Voice back in 1999 entitled: Of Butches, Kings, and Masculinity.

The exact quote is the first paragraph of the article and was cleaned up a bit.

" I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger. Girls who have dicks made of flesh and silicone and latex and magic. Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives. Girls who have big cocks, love blowjobs, and like to fuck girls hard. It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

Reading the paragraph within the context helps a lot. LOL. I can be such a freakin doofus.

The entire article is here: http://www.villagevoice.com/1999-10-...d-masculinity/

I would like to offer another perspective on this!

Before I read it to my butch, I said: "Just substitute butch for 'girl' when you hear it".

When I first read it, that actually is what I did mentally, instead of focusing on the word "girl" but you could substitute whatever ID or gender or gender-free ID that you prefer.

I absolutely loved it because butches in general and my love in particular; thrill and turn me on and my sweetie’s hair is trimmed so short I can’t even grip it and love it dearly *sigh*. Everything else in this paragraph also describes her to a T:

Butches "with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Butches with shirts that button the other way. Butches that swagger. Butches who have dicks made of flesh and silicone and latex and magic. Butches who get stared at in the ladies' room, butches who shop in the boys department, and butches who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Butches with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives".


(My apologies to Tristan for changing the context of her original article, which was written in 1999. A lot has changed in our knowledge and understanding of gender since that time, too).

[WickedFemme]

Originally Posted by skeeter_01

Thanks so much Kobi!! I was just about to ask, who the heck is Tristan Taormino?? LoL!! You saved me the embarrassment of being told (and rightly so!) to go Google her!

lol... I think she would just 'die' if someone didn't know 'who' she is cause of course she's all that. Anywho... I think she wrote that quote years and years ago before the whole gender identity revolution became so widely accepted within the lesbian or queer community.
She really doesn't know any more than any of us about gender identity, etc.. she just chooses to make it her job and her livelihood. I wouldn't look to her as the source of all knowledge. however, I'm sure the vanilla hetero world finds her quite remarkable, which is good cause she is paving the way towards societal acceptance of 'differences'.

[Dude]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

"I love butch girls. Girls with slick, shiny, barbershop haircuts, trimmed so short your fingertips can barely grip it. Girls with shirts that button the other way. Girls that swagger... Girls who get stared at in the ladies' room, girls who shop in the boys department, girls who live every moment looking like they weren't supposed to. Girls with hands that touch me like they have been exploring my body their entire lives... It is the girls that get called sir every day who make me catch my breath, the girls with strong jaws who buckle my knees, the girls who are a different gender who make me want to lay down for them."

If I read that in a personal ad, I would ask her out on a date in a new york minute.

I might "try" dating her for a minute.
Nope, no I wouldnt lol.
I would get an insensitive vibe from her choice of words.
Even 40 years ago (for me) that word was a trigger for all that I am not.
In this tiny paragraph , she says it 11 times.
(To me) that cancels out the good words she chose like swagger and cock.
The disconnect between sir and girl is fucking enormous. helllooooo?

I would think that she does not know the ==>first thing about butches to begin with.

[Dude]

Originally Posted by WickedFemme

I'm sure the vanilla hetero world finds her quite remarkable, which is good cause she is paving the way towards societal acceptance of 'differences'.

ohhh
so she is talking about butches TO straight people?
it's almost as if the word is used for "shock value"
and this explains that it was , I guess

it still has nothing but sting value for me

but
but
but
werent butches the anti-girls from the beginning of time?
I think so

[WickedFemme]

Originally Posted by Dude

ohhh
so she is talking about butches TO straight people?
it's almost as if the word is used for "shock value"
and this explains that it was , I guess

it still has nothing but sting value for me

but
but
but
werent butches the anti-girls from the beginning of time?
I think so

I'm not butch and it had 'sting' value for me too. so, I can only imagine how you must feel. At the time, I guess it was cutting edge for some... meh.

[Martina]

i know quite a few butches who visit their girl space as well as boy space. One has a deep glorious commanding voice.

We are who we are, but in my experience, there are a lot of butch girls out there, and thank god for them.

[BullDog]

I know of plenty of butches who refer to themselves as girl and it has nothing to do with them being submissive. I don't particularly like being called girl but it doesn't sting and I don't consider it an insult unless someone is clearly trying to insult. I also don't like being called lady. I can't stand when men refer to women as girls, but when other women do it it doesn't bother me. I also don't like straight people using the term dyke.

As for the quote, I wasn't offended. I think the author was talking about her own feelings using her own words. I think it was a very butch positive quote and she clearly admires and is attracted to butches.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I don't believe she was educating straight men she was more examining the draw they had towards her girlfriend.. I'll have reread it.

[BullDog]

I think she gets butches just fine

"Straight men (my friends included) can and have been friendly to my lovers, but they're often uncomfortable when they're butches. Part of their discomfort is that butches are inherently threatening to most men. Men sense that a butch's masculinity is more appealing to me than theirs, and if she's packin' heat (wielding a dildo), which you know they imagine she is, well, there you have it. My girlfriend Red is a better man than most men.

At my cousin's wedding a few weeks back in upstate New York, Red and I were (surprise, surprise) the only lesbians. We were seated at a table with all my cousin's friends—married yuppies. The husbands were totally fascinated by Red. One in particular wanted to know where she got her hair cut, and he admired her flattop repeatedly, saying he wished his looked so good. This experience at the wedding has actually been happening a lot lately, and other butches I know report similar situations. I'm still mystified when straight men seem drawn to Red, but I have a few theories. In some cases, I think that men feel they can have a safe gay interaction with her; they can flirt and be playful (and even talk interior decorating) as if she were another guy because they know she's really a woman. Sometimes men actually identify with her as one of the guys, automatically admitting her into that fraternal order. But when they admire her suit, her wingtips, her hair, they seem to be learning from her what it's like to be a good man. She embodies a study of ideal masculinity, which is all in the details."