Tristan Taormino - loves butch girls

Dude · 07-11-2012, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WickedFemme

I'm sure the vanilla hetero world finds her quite remarkable, which is good cause she is paving the way towards societal acceptance of 'differences'.

ohhh
so she is talking about butches TO straight people?
it's almost as if the word is used for "shock value"
and this explains that it was , I guess

it still has nothing but sting value for me

but
but
but
werent butches the anti-girls from the beginning of time?
I think so

WickedFemme · 07-11-2012, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude

ohhh
so she is talking about butches TO straight people?
it's almost as if the word is used for "shock value"
and this explains that it was , I guess

it still has nothing but sting value for me

but
but
but
werent butches the anti-girls from the beginning of time?
I think so

I'm not butch and it had 'sting' value for me too. so, I can only imagine how you must feel. At the time, I guess it was cutting edge for some... meh.

Random · 07-11-2012, 07:38 PM

So butch only comes in one flavor and if it's not the right flavor it has an ick factor?

That's how the last couple of posts felt to me...

Just because the term doesn't resound with you, doesn't make it less than or geared twards hetros...

This piece resounded with me...

I got what she was saying...

I like butch girls..(Ok, I like butch in just about any flavor, but have a weakness for a big ol butch who is a girl)

I happened to be partnered with one...

Nothing shocking, nothing cutting edge..

Just a big old hard working, hard fucking, gets called sir, taking up space butch who is also a girl...

Dude · 07-11-2012, 08:21 PM

she doesn't "get me" fine at all = different strokes ( Did I not say that?)
even at my youngest (around four)
that word was very off-putting and insulting (to me)
and I know for certain I am not alone in those thoughts.

diversity
don't we all get to be who we are?
cant we all say what is true (for ourselves) without someone
taking offence?

BullDog · 07-11-2012, 08:33 PM

Dude if you won't want to be called "girl" then fine, but she wasn't talking TO straight people and was partnered to a butch at the time and words like "ick" and "sting" are pretty loaded terms when there are plenty of butches who are fine with the term girl (some are submissives and some are not).

I think people need to read the entire article before leaping to conclusions about what the author does or doesn't know.

http://www.villagevoice.com/1999-10-...masculinity/2/

Just_G · 07-11-2012, 08:48 PM

I am sure a lot of people see me as a butch "girl". I, personally, do not. I have never liked being called a girl or liked it when someone says "you go girl" or "girrrrrl, you should have seen....", but that is just me. I am not a boy (depending on who calls me that..

) or a girl, a man or a woman. I am butch, I am A butch....I am what I consider the gray area....or the best of both worlds.

I don't like being referred to as someone's "girlfriend" in a relationship sense, but if that is how they want to term it, fine. To be really honest, I feel like I have to settle for whatever makes everyone else comfortable, and it is getting tiring....anywho.....

I get what Tristan was saying in the article, I really do. I just had to substitute the word "girl" with "butch", and then I was quite happy.

btw, this is all coming from my ME space, and I am by no means trying to say anyone else should feel this way or that the word "girl" is icky or gross...it's just not for me.

WickedFemme · 07-11-2012, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Dude if you won't want to be called "girl" then fine, but she wasn't talking TO straight people and was partnered to a butch at the time and words like "ick" and "sting" are pretty loaded terms when there are plenty of butches who are fine with the term girl (some are submissives and some are not).

I think people need to read the entire article before leaping to conclusions about what the author does or doesn't know.

http://www.villagevoice.com/1999-10-...masculinity/2/

Like I said, many years ago - 1999... lol...

BullDog · 07-11-2012, 09:14 PM

The piece doesn't feel all that outdated to me. *shrug*

SugarFemme · 07-12-2012, 04:00 AM

I remember at age fifteen being offended at being called, "girl" after finding out the definition was, "A young, immature female". I certainly did not feel that described me at all as I was a very mature, responsible and politically astute young woman. Now that I am fifty, it REALLY annoys me when I go to a restaurant with my nineteen year old daughter and the twenty year old server asks, "What can I get you girls to eat??" Really??? Oh and fuggedaboutit if she calls me, "Honey" LOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude

she doesn't "get me" fine at all = different strokes ( Did I not say that?)
even at my youngest (around four)
that word was very off-putting and insulting (to me)
and I know for certain I am not alone in those thoughts.

diversity
don't we all get to be who we are?
cant we all say what is true (for ourselves) without someone
taking offence?

BullDog · 07-12-2012, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by June

Like I said before, girl still = less than to many people. It's so fucked up.

There is an entire universe of difference to me in the following:

Some guy says "You, girl. I need some service over here"
My lover says "You're my girl" and has that tone of wonder in her voice
I say to my friend "Girl, you need Jesus"
My friend says "I need to check with the girl first"
Someone says to someone else (consensually) "Girl, you need to drop and stay until I say otherwise"

Girl is not a bad word. Girl is not less than. I never get "Sir'd" ever, but I think I know the difference when people are speaking from their own place of internal hierarchy.

Girl does not default to submissive or weak or helpless. Not all girls are children or childlike any more than a masculine word defaults to strong or Top or capable or adult.

You can get "Sir'd" in a derisive way too. It's all in context.

Ya know when people are using a term like girl it's usually in real life interactions with people they know- like how June describes above.

It isn't about deeply seeded gender identity or whether someone ids as submissive etc. It's just real people having real conversations and the ebb and flow of language.

I don't see how anyone can not read the essay by Tristan Taormino and not see that she is quite familiar with butches and that it was a butch positive piece.

Isn't it all about context and intent?

07-11-2012, 07:38 PM	#3
Random Senior Member How Do You Identify?: femme Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: back in the land of trees and snow Posts: 2,072 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8,017 Thanked 5,327 Times in 1,378 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	So butch only comes in one flavor and if it's not the right flavor it has an ick factor? That's how the last couple of posts felt to me... Just because the term doesn't resound with you, doesn't make it less than or geared twards hetros... This piece resounded with me... I got what she was saying... I like butch girls..(Ok, I like butch in just about any flavor, but have a weakness for a big ol butch who is a girl) I happened to be partnered with one... Nothing shocking, nothing cutting edge.. Just a big old hard working, hard fucking, gets called sir, taking up space butch who is also a girl... __________________ ~Volunteer~ "It gets in your blood"

07-11-2012, 08:33 PM	#5
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,665 Times in 4,464 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Dude if you won't want to be called "girl" then fine, but she wasn't talking TO straight people and was partnered to a butch at the time and words like "ick" and "sting" are pretty loaded terms when there are plenty of butches who are fine with the term girl (some are submissives and some are not). I think people need to read the entire article before leaping to conclusions about what the author does or doesn't know. http://www.villagevoice.com/1999-10-...masculinity/2/ __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

07-11-2012, 08:48 PM	#6
Just_G Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch, Switch, Comedian...G...whichever. Preferred Pronoun?: He....with an e! Relationship Status: I'll take kinky & twisted for $200, Alex!! Tournaments Won: 1 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: in the middle Posts: 2,281 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 874 Thanked 6,165 Times in 1,450 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	I am sure a lot of people see me as a butch "girl". I, personally, do not. I have never liked being called a girl or liked it when someone says "you go girl" or "girrrrrl, you should have seen....", but that is just me. I am not a boy (depending on who calls me that..) or a girl, a man or a woman. I am butch, I am A butch....I am what I consider the gray area....or the best of both worlds. I don't like being referred to as someone's "girlfriend" in a relationship sense, but if that is how they want to term it, fine. To be really honest, I feel like I have to settle for whatever makes everyone else comfortable, and it is getting tiring....anywho..... I get what Tristan was saying in the article, I really do. I just had to substitute the word "girl" with "butch", and then I was quite happy. btw, this is all coming from my ME space, and I am by no means trying to say anyone else should feel this way or that the word "girl" is icky or gross...it's just not for me. __________________ Happy are those who dream and are ready to pay the price to make them come true!

07-11-2012, 09:14 PM	#8
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,665 Times in 4,464 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	The piece doesn't feel all that outdated to me. shrug __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

07-11-2012, 08:21 PM	#4
Dude Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: Perusing Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: exit 5 with an exit 21 goal Posts: 1,725 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 15,351 Thanked 10,605 Times in 1,477 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	she doesn't "get me" fine at all = different strokes ( Did I not say that?) even at my youngest (around four) that word was very off-putting and insulting (to me) and I know for certain I am not alone in those thoughts. diversity don't we all get to be who we are? cant we all say what is true (for ourselves) without someone taking offence?