The Femme Continuum: The "Highs" and "Lows" of Visibility

[blush]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I don't think asking anyone to use the correct pronoun is a form of policing, it's just polite and showing someone consideration, if they are asking and clearly stating this is their preference why wouldn't I respect that or why wouldn't anyone? We (Femmes) want respect, want our gender to be heard, seen and respected, the same goes for everyone else.

Not policing you here, just sharing and talking this out. Thanks for listening

I agree, Lady Snow. It certainly isn't a form of policing. No one should have to ask. I must not be being clear because that's not what I'm talking about.

Indulge me again...
When the pronoun topic comes up online, stories are told about bad experiences with pronouns. It seems these stories always revolve around some femme messing up pronouns. We seem to focus on and remember more easily when a femme does this than when any other identity misconstrues pronouns.

I hope that is more clear, I'm certainly not saying that pronoun awareness or asking someone to use the correct pronoun is a form of policing.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by blush

I agree, Lady Snow. It certainly isn't a form of policing. No one should have to ask. I must not be being clear because that's not what I'm talking about.

Indulge me again...
When the pronoun topic comes up online, stories are told about bad experiences with pronouns. It seems these stories always revolve around some femme messing up pronouns. We seem to focus on and remember more easily when a femme does this than when any other identity misconstrues pronouns.

I hope that is more clear, I'm certainly not saying that pronoun awareness or asking someone to use the correct pronoun is a form of policing.

```This is coming from my POV and only mine and it does not mean I think ALL femme's do this.~~~

I see it all the time femme's defaulting to the he pronoun automatically, and when the butch or person corrects them, they have been know to be dismissive, and insulting and even go as far as ASK why they aren't so. That's what *I* I am talking about when I am speaking of that particular matter.

Thanks for listening

[SuperFemme]

I can NOT be the only one on the interwebz who has witnessed a Femme and a male Id'd Butch fall in love. Glitter and unicorns ensue. THEN they break up.
Inevitably, the Femme will come to a thread and switch to using female pronouns and birth names in an attempt to emasculate said Butch.

THAT makes me crazy and is a thousand time worse than being lazy or making a simple mistake.

I'm not the only one? Am I?

[blush]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I can NOT be the only one on the interwebz who has witnessed a Femme and a male Id'd Butch fall in love. Glitter and unicorns ensue. THEN they break up.
Inevitably, the Femme will come to a thread and switch to using female pronouns and birth names in an attempt to emasculate said Butch.

THAT makes me crazy and is a thousand time worse than being lazy or making a simple mistake.

I'm not the only one? Am I?

I've seen that.

I've also seen butches use female pronouns/emasculating phrases when referring to their ex's male-identified partner.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by blush

I've seen that.

I've also seen butches use female pronouns/emasculating phrases when referring to their ex's male-identified partner.

Right? I've seen that too.

[SuperFemme]

So. Moving away from the he/hy she/shy proper pronoun debate...

Do any Femmes here use a pronoun other than she/shy? I'm combing my dendrites to think if I have run into this and cannot come up with anyone.

Remember though, I have a memory like the girl in 50 First Dates. So just cuz I can't think of any doesn't mean they aren't out there.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

So. Moving away from the he/hy she/shy proper pronoun debate...

Do any Femmes here use a pronoun other than she/shy? I'm combing my dendrites to think if I have run into this and cannot come up with anyone.

Remember though, I have a memory like the girl in 50 First Dates. So just cuz I can't think of any doesn't mean they aren't out there.

I wouldn't mind "zie" if it ever took off enough for me to get used to it. I wouldn't mind "he" if it wasn't said with malicious intent.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I can NOT be the only one on the interwebz who has witnessed a Femme and a male Id'd Butch fall in love. Glitter and unicorns ensue. THEN they break up.
Inevitably, the Femme will come to a thread and switch to using female pronouns and birth names in an attempt to emasculate said Butch.

THAT makes me crazy and is a thousand time worse than being lazy or making a simple mistake.

I'm not the only one? Am I?

LOL. The "glitter and unicorns" got me. Yes, i have seen that. And worse.

[Spirit Dancer]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I can NOT be the only one on the interwebz who has witnessed a Femme and a male Id'd Butch fall in love. Glitter and unicorns ensue. THEN they break up.
Inevitably, the Femme will come to a thread and switch to using female pronouns and birth names in an attempt to emasculate said Butch.

THAT makes me crazy and is a thousand time worse than being lazy or making a simple mistake.

I'm not the only one? Am I?

SF~
I've seen it way too many times, followed by nasty fights or break ups. Then saying it's true they are the same as me down there. It blows my mind and I lose it, my favorite i've heard a few times as of late is hy is a glitter cock. I despise that word, and it just skeeves me. If you view them as a female then why start anything when you know full well they are male id`ed and you won't respect them in their id.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Spirit Dancer

SF~
I've seen it way too many times, followed by nasty fights or break ups. Then saying it's true they are the same as me down there. It blows my mind and I lose it, my favorite i've heard a few times as of late is hy is a glitter cock. I despise that word, and it just skeeves me. If you view them as a female then why start anything when you know full well they are male id`ed and you won't respect them in their id.

i am misunderstanding. What i have seen is that some femmes have dated a male-ID'd butch, wanting male-ID, not viewing them as female, and then when it was over, cause they were mad at the butches, used female pronouns to disrespect them.

Are you serious? People use glitter cock as a way of calling someone less than in some way? OMG. lol. Let me tell you, i have done some damage with those glitter cocks (hand held).

[betenoire]

How come we can't have a discussion about Femmes without talking about Butches?

[Martina]

Originally Posted by betenoire

How come we can't have a discussion about Femmes without talking about Butches?

i had the same thought, but wtf? i also think part of the discussion was to what degree is this hierarchy, if there is one, reinforced by butches and how do we react to it when it is.

i personally have not gotten much of that from butches. And even not a huge amt from femmes. i don't think it's as big of a deal for us -- the hierarchy.

[blush]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

```This is coming from my POV and only mine and it does not mean I think ALL femme's do this.~~~

I see it all the time femme's defaulting to the he pronoun automatically, and when the butch or person corrects them, they have been know to be dismissive, and insulting and even go as far as ASK why they aren't so. That's what *I* I am talking about when I am speaking of that particular matter.

Thanks for listening

I ask this honestly, not snotty, cause you could prolly whip me around quite a bit...

Is it only femmes? Or do "we" (the collective we) just notice it more and remember it more?

I've seen it from both sides of the fence.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by blush

I ask this honestly, not snotty, cause you could prolly whip me around quite a bit...

Is it only femmes? Or do "we" (the collective we) just notice it more and remember it more?

I've seen it from both sides of the fence.

Woof right??

*I* was coming from my POV and what I have seen more of.

Make sense?

[christie]

Originally Posted by blush

I agree, Lady Snow. It certainly isn't a form of policing. No one should have to ask. I must not be being clear because that's not what I'm talking about.

Indulge me again...
When the pronoun topic comes up online, stories are told about bad experiences with pronouns. It seems these stories always revolve around some femme messing up pronouns. We seem to focus on and remember more easily when a femme does this than when any other identity misconstrues pronouns.

I hope that is more clear, I'm certainly not saying that pronoun awareness or asking someone to use the correct pronoun is a form of policing.

To expand on what I think you are saying here....

Its like we are held to a different/higher standard as if we should "know better"

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by christie0918

To expand on what I think you are saying here....

Its like we are held to a different/higher standard as if we should "know better"

No that is not what is being said at all from what I gather from *any* of the femme's who have voiced their opinions on this and experiences.

Thank you

[christie]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

No that is not what is being said at all from what I gather from *any* of the femme's who have voiced their opinions on this and experiences.

Thank you

This felt incredibly dismissive and silencing.

I merely posted what *my* opinion was on the post I quoted.

If your experience/opinion is different, I am sure it could have been stated without the implied tone.

[blush]

Originally Posted by christie0918

To expand on what I think you are saying here....

Its like we are held to a different/higher standard as if we should "know better"

It can seem that way. Butches and transmen do not get the same amount of backlash that femmes do for misconstruing (intentionally or not) pronouns.