Breeder and other words we use to hurt our own.

[Mr. Moon]

It just ocurred to me after Toughy's post, that I really dislike the term "queer".

In my world it was used so much to hurt gay people that I twinge every time I hear it.

Then came the 90's and everybody wanted to "take it back" "own it".
I always had a hard time with that concept. Seems kind of silly to me, but it works for some I suppose, therefore it is not silly to them.

I think maybe the term in question has the same feeling to some people. So therefore I get it. I don't feel that way, but they do and that's what counts.

And I know I made several people blink alot, admitting I do not like the term queer.

Still makes me shudder. But I realize it's not about me, it's not used to hurt me (for the most part unless you travel in certain spots here in Maryland). So, I roll with people using that term.

I hope this made sense. I'm rattling...
-Mr. Moon

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Mr. Moon

It just ocurred to me after Toughy's post, that I really dislike the term "queer".

In my world it was used so much to hurt gay people that I twinge every time I hear it.

Then came the 90's and everybody wanted to "take it back" "own it".
I always had a hard time with that concept. Seems kind of silly to me, but it works for some I suppose, therefore it is not silly to them.

I think maybe the term in question has the same feeling to some people. So therefore I get it. I don't feel that way, but they do and that's what counts.

And I know I made several people blink alot, admitting I do not like the term queer.

Still makes me shudder. But I realize it's not about me, it's not used to hurt me (for the most part unless you travel in certain spots here in Maryland). So, I roll with people using that term.

I hope this made sense. I'm rattling...
-Mr. Moon

Moonie, that must be even tougher than *breeder*. Because that term is used on such a large scale nowadays. I will make sure not to call you that and thanks for letting me know.

I wonder about words that carry that kind of power that have been reclaimed now. What if a person doesn't want to reclaim a word but the majority does?

Language. Argh.

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by Mr. Moon

It just ocurred to me after Toughy's post, that I really dislike the term "queer".

In my world it was used so much to hurt gay people that I twinge every time I hear it.

Then came the 90's and everybody wanted to "take it back" "own it".
I always had a hard time with that concept. Seems kind of silly to me, but it works for some I suppose, therefore it is not silly to them.

I think maybe the term in question has the same feeling to some people. So therefore I get it. I don't feel that way, but they do and that's what counts.

And I know I made several people blink alot, admitting I do not like the term queer.

Still makes me shudder. But I realize it's not about me, it's not used to hurt me (for the most part unless you travel in certain spots here in Maryland). So, I roll with people using that term.

I hope this made sense. I'm rattling...
-Mr. Moon

It did..
And it was kind of the same thing I was thinking, and figured if i posted at all, that I would say..
I mean I like the word Queer, but I get, that many don't !
I do think context is important with any word, and yes I really do mean

ANY word...

Me, I don't like it when people use cunt as a swear word or to denote a stupid person
Need I explain why ?
But if I am referring to my cunt.. that's a whole nother story
Also, a lot is cultural..Not just contextual .. or let us say, they cultural differences, lend to different contextual meanings..

Oh and btw, did anyone come up with any other phrases and/or words , that are used by GLBTQ etc people , to hurt each other? I do believe that was the title of the thread, and maybe even the intent

[DapperButch]

Mr. Moon's comment made me think of how when I used to refer to myself as a dyke at work around the heterosexuals that I have a friendly relationship with, would become horrifed FOR me. "Don't say that...you are not a dyke!". This was their way of saying, oh gosh, has Dapper internalized that slur? :-( We don't want her (most I haven't had the gender conversation with), to do that!

I would have to educate them on how for me dyke is a proud term.

For some reason, they don't react to queer...I think at this point they just let me say whatever and don't question it! LOL

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

It did..
And it was kind of the same thing I was thinking, and figured if i posted at all, that I would say..
I mean I like the word Queer, but I get, that many don't !
I do think context is important with any word, and yes I really do mean

ANY word...

Me, I don't like it when people use cunt as a swear word or to denote a stupid person
Need I explain why ?
But if I am referring to my cunt.. that's a whole nother story
Also, a lot is cultural..Not just contextual .. or let us say, they cultural differences, lend to different contextual meanings..

Oh and btw, did anyone come up with any other phrases and/or words , that are used by GLBTQ etc people , to hurt each other? I do believe that was the title of the thread, and maybe even the intent

There are the attacks on gender which I and somebody else have mentioned: Shim, HeShe

There is the naming of the Slut: This is particularly hurtful. I think it happens in groups of women when we don't understand each other or are feeling insecure. It is sticky because the word slut when used by ones self can be empowering. When used to tear a woman down it can be really hurtful.

Anybody else?

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by blush

I wonder about words that carry that kind of power that have been reclaimed now. What if a person doesn't want to reclaim a word but the majority does?

If an individual doesn't want to reclaim a word but the majority does - really their only "responsibility" it to not use it. If someone doesn't like Queer, nobody is forcing them to say it. You're welcome to articulate why you don't like the word - but don't expect everybody to apologise and never use it again. DO expect everybody to make a mental note of that and not refer to YOU as Queer, however.

And then there's Fat.

I love the word Fat. I think Fat is just about the greatest fucking word in my vocabulary. I'm all about overusing it and desensitizing people to it to the point where when I say it it's clear to the listener that I'm using the same matter-of-fact voice that I would use if I were to mention my freckles.

I think there's a lot of power in taking back Fat.

But, you know, not everybody is on board. And they really don't have to be. I don't get to decide what words make other people uncomfortable.

Sometimes if I reference my Fat it squicks people out. From the co-worker who (so well intentioned) say "Brandy...you are not fat, honey." to lovers who say "I don't think you're fat, I think you're beautiful." (like I fucking can't be both? wtf! I wanna be both!) When that happens the onus is on me to (briefly) explain that I don't think Fat is a bad word, and why, and then move on with my life.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by betenoire

If an individual doesn't want to reclaim a word but the majority does - really their only "responsibility" it to not use it. If someone doesn't like Queer, nobody is forcing them to say it. You're welcome to articulate why you don't like the word - but don't expect everybody to apologise and never use it again. DO expect everybody to make a mental note of that and not refer to YOU as Queer, however.

And then there's Fat.

I love the word Fat. I think Fat is just about the greatest fucking word in my vocabulary. I'm all about overusing it and desensitizing people to it to the point where when I say it it's clear to the listener that I'm using the same matter-of-fact voice that I would use if I were to mention my freckles.

I think there's a lot of power in taking back Fat.

But, you know, not everybody is on board. And they really don't have to be. I don't get to decide what words make other people uncomfortable.

Sometimes if I reference my Fat it squicks people out. From the co-worker who (so well intentioned) say "Brandy...you are not fat, honey." to lovers who say "I don't think you're fat, I think you're beautiful." (like I fucking can't be both? wtf! I wanna be both!) When that happens the onus is on me to (briefly) explain that I don't think Fat is a bad word, and why, and then move on with my life.

And on four hours of sleep Bete succinctly sums it up. Thank you!

There are words that are going to be one persons trigger and anothers salvation. I suppose the key is opening our mouths and letting each other know what those words are?

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

There are the attacks on gender which I and somebody else have mentioned: Shim, HeShe

There is the naming of the Slut: This is particularly hurtful. I think it happens in groups of women when we don't understand each other or are feeling insecure. It is sticky because the word slut when used by ones self can be empowering. When used to tear a woman down it can be really hurtful.

Anybody else?

Sorry, all those words can be endearing in context ..Seriously ...

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

Sorry, all those words can be endearing in context ..Seriously ...

I understand. Until they are not, in context....

[Martina]

i don't think i have ever in my adult life used the word "slut" with anything but a tone of approval.

One thing i have heard in our community which reflects the sexism of the culture is disgust expressed for having casual sex or having had sex with numerous partners.

i know this feeling is not uncommon, but i truly wish it were less freely expressed.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Martina

i don't think i have ever in my adult life used the word "slut" with anything but a tone of approval.

One thing i have heard in our community which reflects the sexism of the culture is disgust expressed for having casual sex or having had sex with numerous partners.

i know this feeling is not uncommon, but i truly wish it were less freely expressed.

By the "naming of the slut" i am talking about a way we femmes ostracize one another and other one another. I don't know how to articulate it.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

Sorry, all those words can be endearing in context ..Seriously ...

I never considered that "Shim" and "HeShe" could be ever be "endearing" even in context.

I am curious as to how you have heard these words be used in endearing ways.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I never considered that "Shim" and "HeShe" could be ever be "endearing" even in context.

I am curious as to how you have heard these words be used in endearing ways.

Me too.

MOST transgender people I know don't find it endearing to be called two genders. Or even the gender they were incorrectly born into.

If you want to be endearing to my Beloved? He or Hy will do. "HeShe" is one step short of just saying freak, and I find it very disrespectful.

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I never considered that "Shim" and "HeShe" could be ever be "endearing" even in context.

I am curious as to how you have heard these words be used in endearing ways.

I think any word, can be used.. in different ways. They are words.. The context is everything..
If the question is , do I use them ? That's a different question.
There are plenty of words, that one person finds ok, and another is bothered by. Some find a turn on even..
There's tons of words I don't personally want to ever hear around me.. ! But that doesn't mean I don't understand that for some, they are either not offensive, or a term of endearment even.
Its not the words themselves.. Its when and how
A lovely example several years ago, was when someone called a particular female identified Butch, Miss..
Context, is everything, Nothing wrong with the word
and technically, correct.
Context ? insultingly meant .... clearly so..
Even more years ago, when I was a moderator for the GLCF Forum, way back in the stone ages of the Internet.. ! There was a rumor, that certain words were forbidden. Not so... There was a list of words to watch for, to check for context ..Certainly those are words more likely to be used as insults.. But .. not always, and , good grief....seriously, do you all, those who ahh..jumped on this..really think you know everything in everyone's lives and cultures , and exactly what one person might murmur to another , what might bring an intimate blush to one person ?
I don't, and that is my point... !

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

I think any word, can be used.. in different ways. They are words.. The context is everything..
If the question is , do I use them ? That's a different question.
There are plenty of words, that one person finds ok, and another is bothered by. Some find a turn on even..
There's tons of words I don't personally want to ever hear around me.. ! But that doesn't mean I don't understand that for some, they are either not offensive, or a term of endearment even.
Its not the words themselves.. Its when and how
A lovely example several years ago, was when someone called a particular female identified Butch, Miss..
Context, is everything, Nothing wrong with the word
and technically, correct.
Context ? insultingly meant .... clearly so..
Even more years ago, when I was a moderator for the GLCF Forum, way back in the stone ages of the Internet.. ! There was a rumor, that certain words were forbidden. Not so... There was a list of words to watch for, to check for context ..Certainly those are words more likely to be used as insults.. But .. not always, and , good grief....seriously, do you all, those who ahh..jumped on this..really think you know everything in everyone's lives and cultures , and exactly what one person might murmur to another , what might bring an intimate blush to one person ?
I don't, and that is my point... !

I agree with this post.

Not looking to make any words forbidden, but when you say to me that you have *only* seen the words shim and shehe used in an endearing way I am going to call bullshit on that.

I am willing to concede that you may have seen them used in an endearing way, but only? Really? You can honestly say those words are not hurtful?

[Soon]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

I think any word, can be used.. in different ways. They are words.. The context is everything..
If the question is , do I use them ? That's a different question.
There are plenty of words, that one person finds ok, and another is bothered by. Some find a turn on even..
There's tons of words I don't personally want to ever hear around me.. ! But that doesn't mean I don't understand that for some, they are either not offensive, or a term of endearment even.
Its not the words themselves.. Its when and how
A lovely example several years ago, was when someone called a particular female identified Butch, Miss..
Context, is everything, Nothing wrong with the word
and technically, correct.
Context ? insultingly meant .... clearly so..
Even more years ago, when I was a moderator for the GLCF Forum, way back in the stone ages of the Internet.. ! There was a rumor, that certain words were forbidden. Not so... There was a list of words to watch for, to check for context ..Certainly those are words more likely to be used as insults.. But .. not always, and , good grief....seriously, do you all, those who ahh..jumped on this..really think you know everything in everyone's lives and cultures , and exactly what one person might murmur to another , what might bring an intimate blush to one person ?
I don't, and that is my point... !

Nothing wrong with the word, Miss, I agree--context works in this case. (actually, I prefer that the terms miss and mrs. were abolished, but that's a different topic).

However, some words were created JUST to degrade and to be used in an insulting manner.

The words "Shim" and "HeShe"--especially in this day and age-- are pretty much used to invalidate, disparage or mock someone's gender identity.



I am not buying that context works with these two degrading terms or that they could ever be used in endearing ways.

[waxnrope]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

I think any word, can be used.. in different ways. They are words.. The context is everything..
If the question is , do I use them ? That's a different question.
There are plenty of words, that one person finds ok, and another is bothered by. Some find a turn on even..
There's tons of words I don't personally want to ever hear around me.. ! But that doesn't mean I don't understand that for some, they are either not offensive, or a term of endearment even.
Its not the words themselves.. Its when and how
A lovely example several years ago, was when someone called a particular female identified Butch, Miss..
Context, is everything, Nothing wrong with the word
and technically, correct.
Context ? insultingly meant .... clearly so..
Even more years ago, when I was a moderator for the GLCF Forum, way back in the stone ages of the Internet.. ! There was a rumor, that certain words were forbidden. Not so... There was a list of words to watch for, to check for context ..Certainly those are words more likely to be used as insults.. But .. not always, and , good grief....seriously, do you all, those who ahh..jumped on this..really think you know everything in everyone's lives and cultures , and exactly what one person might murmur to another , what might bring an intimate blush to one person ?
I don't, and that is my point... !

Yes, exactly so, IMO. However, as I said a few pages back (and Darth brings up again here), in this place, on this site, on this thread, the word offends.
However, please be aware that there are sometimes cultural and ethnic uses of these words that you find offensive that are not always meant to be offensive, and are considered endearments. I think of how AA often use the word "nigg..." to address one another ... there is a twist, a turn, on the old derogatory use of the term. It is akin to the negritude movement, wherein french people of African descent decided to take those derogatory comments about their origins, skin color, stereotypical characterizations, and twist or turn them into something that had positive attributes. There is power in that, you see.

It is NOT that I LIKE hearing this use of the "n word", but common usage does take the sting out of hearing it. So don't get started on me about that. Anyway, we do not always know the intention/s of one another's use of a word, nor the context in which it was uttered. Yet, there are those, no matter how good the intent (informational/instructional, critical thinking, etc.) find it offensive. It is just simply better, then, to leave it the heck alone HERE. And develop another thread to discuss this academically or critically. Punto. I'm done. LOL.

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

I think any word, can be used.. in different ways. They are words.. The context is everything..
If the question is , do I use them ? That's a different question.
There are plenty of words, that one person finds ok, and another is bothered by. Some find a turn on even..
There's tons of words I don't personally want to ever hear around me.. ! But that doesn't mean I don't understand that for some, they are either not offensive, or a term of endearment even.
Its not the words themselves.. Its when and how
A lovely example several years ago, was when someone called a particular female identified Butch, Miss..
Context, is everything, Nothing wrong with the word
and technically, correct.
Context ? insultingly meant .... clearly so..
Even more years ago, when I was a moderator for the GLCF Forum, way back in the stone ages of the Internet.. ! There was a rumor, that certain words were forbidden. Not so... There was a list of words to watch for, to check for context ..Certainly those are words more likely to be used as insults.. But .. not always, and , good grief....seriously, do you all, those who ahh..jumped on this..really think you know everything in everyone's lives and cultures , and exactly what one person might murmur to another , what might bring an intimate blush to one person ?
I don't, and that is my point... !

Like when you addressed me as "little girl" on "that other site"? Luckily, my balls are bigger than even your lack of self-awareness! Sorry, but seeing you 'educate' others on this subject causes my breakfast to sneak back up on me.