The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[weatherboi]

hi everybody!!!

from my own personal experience, i was partnered with a person that is DA/on the spectrum. i really do understand the need for NT's to learn a better way to communicate and hear when interacting with Differently-Abled people and people on the Spectrum. i gave passes till it became detrimental to me in an attempt to give this persons intent the benefit of the doubt. sometimes it just is what it is and the person is abusive and cant help it. happiness is something everybody deserves but not at another persons expense.

i have volunteered for some years now at a facility that educates Differently- Abled folks. Not one time in all my training classes were we ever taught to give a person a pass within the schools community for behavior that was deemd as inappropriate or punishable. No matter what level of comprehension skills are present.

It is enabling to have this kind of conversation with someone when it is not true. It invites a relationship that may not be or is not welcome. So why do this???

"I'm sorry, I'm not interested."
"Why? You would like me. I want to be your girlfriend."
"Oh I do like you and I think we should just be friends."
"I want to be friends too."
"Good, me too."


This is actually how I have handled conversations. My tone and the way I chose words can change depending on who I'm talking to. I'm not a social worker or MSW - I was a history major. But I know that it worked for me. I made a friend without having to go thru major drama. Everyone choses how they communicate in this world. Some people make no apologies for it and demand that people accept them for who they are. I am not one of those people. I do try to communicate in a way that makes sense in the situation. Everything will not work for everyone all the time.
yeah but the focus of the technic is creating a space for a relationship that may not be wanted and you didnt answer that aspect of it...you answered what you are comfortble with and what you expect everybody else should be comfortable with too.

so if a person invades my space and i handle it once, twice, even three times with compassion and they continue to escalate to angry behavior then at what point will my accepting and compassionate behavior come back to be used against me?? like when people accuse other people(potential victims)of asking for it.

If you are "handling it" the first time, why then do you continue to "handle it" the same way? Wouldn't the first couple of times be an indication that it's not working?
i never stated it is always handled the same. what i get is that if i gotta reiterate my boundaries to a person then clearly i am not the one with the problem. the fact that it has to be handled more than once should be noted as not ok and no means no. why does my handling of it need to be questioned if i am not the one creating the problem? mild form of victim blaming maybe??

so if i have a person on ignore and that person comes in here and posts something negative or threatening about me and a person that loves me or maybe people (more than one) that love me report this person does this mean they still get a pass?? i don't feel that is very effective or fair to the community and its unity and safety as a whole.

That is the idea behind ignore. If they threaten anyone they would likely be reported. So if you are ignoring them, how does it hurt you to do that - especially someone that grates your nerves?ehind
so you are saying they get a pass???

so lets say this happens to me with more than one person here...let's say maybe two or three people read that it is ok to behave this way?? what then??? do we give them all passes??

If there was suddenly a bunch of people wanting special treatment I would worry. I have yet to see that though. What I have seen is that the people who actually need a pass have no idea they need one.
i never said a bunch of people adorable...why are you changing my meanings around to suit your agenda. i am trying to have a thoughtful conversation with you. i said 2 or 3!!! and what i have seen is people who push boundaries are strategic about it and know they can manipulate people into advocating they deserve one.

so let's say i decide to go to the butch/femme reunion and these same people that have invaded my space in some form or fashion decide they are gonna go?? what then??? i have to go under the guise that if one of them crosses boundaries in my real time space that again they get a pass???

If that actually happens and they physically invade your space - call 911.
nice adorable...minimize my concerns to suit your agenda once again. ever heard of online stalkers??

how do we decide a persons intent??? behavior is one way i judge intent. i read words online and i read behavior in real time. it is for me to decide not my community. i will not apologize for being cautious of my personal safety because it has been invaded on a level that allows me the reason to keep many at arms length.

Keeping someone at arms length is understandable. Choosing to ignore people is understandable. Not wanting to deal with particular people for any reason makes perfect sense. There is no requirement to engage with anyone. Ignore them. If your personal safety is threatened, it would make sense to report them. As for judging intent, I read people's posts and look for a pattern. If some has a pattern of any kind - like the way they post or how they talk - I can figure it out by reading their words

i have a person in my life (family friend i have known for years)that has to carry around a permit to carry a gun everywhere she goes because of a person who had a hard time understanding no. he was Differently-Abled. and couldn't understand why she didn't reciprocate feelings. i think they called this person delusional. this persons intent was never love or connection although said it was.

I know people who are not DA that are violent, mean and dangerous. DA has nothing to do with or hold the patent of delusion. There are plenty of delusional people who think the world revolves around them and demand all kinds of exceptions for their behavior who are not DA.
yes adorable i am well rounded thinking enough to know this but thanks . i am not saying that all DA or people on the Spectrum are violent and delusional but good try!

social blunders/awkwardness are something we all are privy to doing. the intent is easily understood and i don't feel that is the issue at hand. invasive behavior from any person is the issue, wheather they are NT, on the Spectrum or Differently- Abled. invasive behavior that continues and the intent behind it is not so easily understood and can be dangerous. so at what point do we stop excusing it and remedy it?? why does it have to be up to the person who is having their space invaded to navigate themselves around the offending person??

The question for me still comes down to capacity. I have seen DA people be dealt with lots of times in lots of different ways. I assume you have an answer to this question since the way that I have attempted to bridge communication gaps you refer to as placating. The remedy? I guess kick them out of the community and the person with the higher capacity for understanding feels better about their surroundings? The ignore button is out because - well people feel compelled to call people on what they perceive to be threats or attacks against them. So I'm not sure what solution you might be offering other then banning. If it's banning - then I guess that would solve the problem.

adorable i never advocated banning anybody...i advocate holding everybody accountable equally on this website no matter what their capacity.

do I think that DA, and people on the Spectrum should be added in the TOS as to not be targeted for discrimination or hatred?...yes. do i think a free pass for being invasive and inappropriate??...no, not at the expense of another persons safety and comfort.


Grant
A free pass for being invasive and inappropriate can only be given by the offended party. The collective us cannot give someone a pass for someone else. I can, and do chose to give passes. Not just to people who are DA but to people whose tone, tactics and communication styles are far different then mine. To people who say "this is how I am, fuck you if you don't like it, I refuse to change." I give people passes when they are having a bad day. I give people passes when they're drunk and normally would know better. I give them to my friends AND my enemies. It's my choice.

wow...even if that fuck you was a collective general fuck you?? cause i tend to not take things personally when people are speaking in the general fuck you...but that is my choice. as for drunks, advocators of the devils side and just people having a bad day well i will say i never felt like i needed to give em a pass because what they are doing is only hurting themselves and not me or any of my loved ones. another personal choice i am happy with.

adorable have you ever been the victim of a violent crime?? for some of us that have our lives don't allow for passes to people who invade our space and continue to cross boundaries. it is my reality not a choice.

[adorable]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

hi everybody!!!

from my own personal experience, i was partnered with a person that is DA/on the spectrum. i really do understand the need for NT's to learn a better way to communicate and hear when interacting with Differently-Abled people and people on the Spectrum. i gave passes till it became detrimental to me in an attempt to give this persons intent the benefit of the doubt. sometimes it just is what it is and the person is abusive and cant help it. happiness is something everybody deserves but not at another persons expense.

i have volunteered for some years now at a facility that educates Differently- Abled folks. Not one time in all my training classes were we ever taught to give a person a pass within the schools community for behavior that was deemd as inappropriate or punishable. No matter what level of comprehension skills are present.

It is enabling to have this kind of conversation with someone when it is not true. It invites a relationship that may not be or is not welcome. So why do this???

"I'm sorry, I'm not interested."
"Why? You would like me. I want to be your girlfriend."
"Oh I do like you and I think we should just be friends."
"I want to be friends too."
"Good, me too."


This is actually how I have handled conversations. My tone and the way I chose words can change depending on who I'm talking to. I'm not a social worker or MSW - I was a history major. But I know that it worked for me. I made a friend without having to go thru major drama. Everyone choses how they communicate in this world. Some people make no apologies for it and demand that people accept them for who they are. I am not one of those people. I do try to communicate in a way that makes sense in the situation. Everything will not work for everyone all the time.
yeah but the focus of the technic is creating a space for a relationship that may not be wanted and you didnt answer that aspect of it...you answered what you are comfortble with and what you expect everybody else should be comfortable with too.

so if a person invades my space and i handle it once, twice, even three times with compassion and they continue to escalate to angry behavior then at what point will my accepting and compassionate behavior come back to be used against me?? like when people accuse other people(potential victims)of asking for it.

If you are "handling it" the first time, why then do you continue to "handle it" the same way? Wouldn't the first couple of times be an indication that it's not working?
i never stated it is always handled the same. what i get is that if i gotta reiterate my boundaries to a person then clearly i am not the one with the problem. the fact that it has to be handled more than once should be noted as not ok and no means no. why does my handling of it need to be questioned if i am not the one creating the problem? mild form of victim blaming maybe??

so if i have a person on ignore and that person comes in here and posts something negative or threatening about me and a person that loves me or maybe people (more than one) that love me report this person does this mean they still get a pass?? i don't feel that is very effective or fair to the community and its unity and safety as a whole.

That is the idea behind ignore. If they threaten anyone they would likely be reported. So if you are ignoring them, how does it hurt you to do that - especially someone that grates your nerves?ehind
so you are saying they get a pass???

so lets say this happens to me with more than one person here...let's say maybe two or three people read that it is ok to behave this way?? what then??? do we give them all passes??

If there was suddenly a bunch of people wanting special treatment I would worry. I have yet to see that though. What I have seen is that the people who actually need a pass have no idea they need one.
i never said a bunch of people adorable...why are you changing my meanings around to suit your agenda. i am trying to have a thoughtful conversation with you. i said 2 or 3!!! and what i have seen is people who push boundaries are strategic about it and know they can manipulate people into advocating they deserve one.

It must be that I am not smart enough to read your words and gather your meaning or have a discussion about something. If you read someone a certain way that is the only way to read them. I apologize for having my own thoughts.

so let's say i decide to go to the butch/femme reunion and these same people that have invaded my space in some form or fashion decide they are gonna go?? what then??? i have to go under the guise that if one of them crosses boundaries in my real time space that again they get a pass???

If that actually happens and they physically invade your space - call 911.
nice adorable...minimize my concerns to suit your agenda once again. ever heard of online stalkers??

Advocating the use of 911 is not minimizing concerns. Unless we have different uses of the word 911 which I doubt.

how do we decide a persons intent??? behavior is one way i judge intent. i read words online and i read behavior in real time. it is for me to decide not my community. i will not apologize for being cautious of my personal safety because it has been invaded on a level that allows me the reason to keep many at arms length.

Keeping someone at arms length is understandable. Choosing to ignore people is understandable. Not wanting to deal with particular people for any reason makes perfect sense. There is no requirement to engage with anyone. Ignore them. If your personal safety is threatened, it would make sense to report them. As for judging intent, I read people's posts and look for a pattern. If some has a pattern of any kind - like the way they post or how they talk - I can figure it out by reading their words

i have a person in my life (family friend i have known for years)that has to carry around a permit to carry a gun everywhere she goes because of a person who had a hard time understanding no. he was Differently-Abled. and couldn't understand why she didn't reciprocate feelings. i think they called this person delusional. this persons intent was never love or connection although said it was.

I know people who are not DA that are violent, mean and dangerous. DA has nothing to do with or hold the patent of delusion. There are plenty of delusional people who think the world revolves around them and demand all kinds of exceptions for their behavior who are not DA.
yes adorable i am well rounded thinking enough to know this but thanks . i am not saying that all DA or people on the Spectrum are violent and delusional but good try!

A good try for what? Odd.

social blunders/awkwardness are something we all are privy to doing. the intent is easily understood and i don't feel that is the issue at hand. invasive behavior from any person is the issue, wheather they are NT, on the Spectrum or Differently- Abled. invasive behavior that continues and the intent behind it is not so easily understood and can be dangerous. so at what point do we stop excusing it and remedy it?? why does it have to be up to the person who is having their space invaded to navigate themselves around the offending person??

The question for me still comes down to capacity. I have seen DA people be dealt with lots of times in lots of different ways. I assume you have an answer to this question since the way that I have attempted to bridge communication gaps you refer to as placating. The remedy? I guess kick them out of the community and the person with the higher capacity for understanding feels better about their surroundings? The ignore button is out because - well people feel compelled to call people on what they perceive to be threats or attacks against them. So I'm not sure what solution you might be offering other then banning. If it's banning - then I guess that would solve the problem.

adorable i never advocated banning anybody...i advocate holding everybody accountable equally on this website no matter what their capacity.

I disagree.

do I think that DA, and people on the Spectrum should be added in the TOS as to not be targeted for discrimination or hatred?...yes. do i think a free pass for being invasive and inappropriate??...no, not at the expense of another persons safety and comfort.


Grant
A free pass for being invasive and inappropriate can only be given by the offended party. The collective us cannot give someone a pass for someone else. I can, and do chose to give passes. Not just to people who are DA but to people whose tone, tactics and communication styles are far different then mine. To people who say "this is how I am, fuck you if you don't like it, I refuse to change." I give people passes when they are having a bad day. I give people passes when they're drunk and normally would know better. I give them to my friends AND my enemies. It's my choice.

wow...even if that fuck you was a collective general fuck you?? cause i tend to not take things personally when people are speaking in the general fuck you...but that is my choice. as for drunks, advocators of the devils side and just people having a bad day well i will say i never felt like i needed to give em a pass because what they are doing is only hurting themselves and not me or any of my loved ones. another personal choice i am happy with.

adorable have you ever been the victim of a violent crime?? for some of us that have our lives don't allow for passes to people who invade our space and continue to cross boundaries. it is my reality not a choice.

Oh seriously - there is no agenda. I have a position that is opposite of yours so to be accused of having an agenda because of that seems to be more of a tactic to discredit what I'm saying. If you don't agree with me, I am fine with that. If your expectation is that because you say something I MUST agree with your or I am the devil - that is problematic.

Apparently you asked questions so that you would get the answers that you wanted. Discussions are out of the question - you already know the answer. So why ask then?

As for being the victim of violent crimes, yes I have. Each one perpetrated by a man. In fact, if you had read all my posts in this thread, I have said that personal safety is something that should be taken seriously and if someone really believes that their personal safety is threatened that they should report.

People do hurt other people, whether intentional or not. That is life. Some people EXPECT a pass for the way they talk or conduct themselves because society says they shouldn't. I guess for some it's ok for other's it's not. Either way, as I said before it is up to the offended party to give a pass, not the collective us. Trying to communicate on behalf of someone else does make me an advocate. Having an opinion in a thread does not. I do have a right to think and not have to agree with people. Blaming the victim? I don't see where I blamed the victim here. Unless victim blaming = I disagree with you. In order to not be seen as blaming, I have to agree?

[christie]

Originally Posted by adorable

as I said before it is up to the offended party to give a pass, not the collective us.

I snipped the above post -

This statement, to me, is SO true. Just as I can't speak for another, I also can't give a pass to a DA person unless the interaction is with me. I can sit here behind the screen and think about how I would act/react in a given situation, but until I am in the midst of it, I honestly can't say how/what I would do or say.

I think that as the parent of a DA person, I have a responsibility to not give him passes on things that are considered inappropriate social behaviors. Not all parents/caregivers/loved ones of DA's feel the same way as I do, nor should they. How we choose to move through this world is very subjective and I really try to speak from the lessons I have learned through my 24/7/365 experiences garnered over a 15 year time span of dealing with a DA person. This doesn't make me an authority on DA's or NaT's, but rather the resident expert of *my* DA son.

I also have different opinions on personal safety issues. I realize there are online stalkers out there and have experienced it first hand. I understand being a violent crime victim, as I have been, but how I deal with the fallout of that experience is different than the examples I have seen here. For me, online is something that I have the choice to walk away from - I can either employ the "ignore" feature or I can just turn it off and walk away - or I can do both - or neither.

For me, continuing to give life/energy to a situation/issue is something I can control. I have found, just like with Bratboy and the arm tapping, the more attention I give to the unwanted behavior, the more he engages. If I disengage by ignoring it, he usually gets tired and ceases. I try to apply this same logic to online folks - if I don't engage, its pretty hard to offend/be inappropriate with me.

*I* don't give the same weight to online interactions as I do real-time ones. I concern myself more with keeping my eye on billybubbabob redneck who can follow us home from wally world and do me and mine physical harm.

In saying that, I am NOT saying that I advocate different standards/rules/expectations of DA's in online communities. I do think that one set of rules for all should be the expectation. How we, as a community, go about ensuring the rules are applied equally is the issue and what I thought was the intent of this thread.

I believe that DA's should be treated as an 'ism. I wouldn't want to be part of a place that allows DA's to be discriminated against, any more than I want to be part of a place that allowed other types of discrimination.

I want to mention that I am off to TN and won't be around the thread much for the next 4 days - my absence is not that I am leaving the conversation because I think that it is important and timely.

[adorable]

Originally Posted by christie0918

I snipped the above post -

This statement, to me, is SO true. Just as I can't speak for another, I also can't give a pass to a DA person unless the interaction is with me. I can sit here behind the screen and think about how I would act/react in a given situation, but until I am in the midst of it, I honestly can't say how/what I would do or say.

Very, very true! (the highlighted part) In my mind when I see something happening where I percieve a situation differently - I actually think it makes me a good friend to say so. A 'maybe it's actually this way' kind of thing. That doesn't make it so ~ any more then it makes me wrong. And I can give examples of how I handled interactions myself that for me worked. They may not work for everyone.

I think that as the parent of a DA person, I have a responsibility to not give him passes on things that are considered inappropriate social behaviors. Not all parents/caregivers/loved ones of DA's feel the same way as I do, nor should they. How we choose to move through this world is very subjective and I really try to speak from the lessons I have learned through my 24/7/365 experiences garnered over a 15 year time span of dealing with a DA person. This doesn't make me an authority on DA's or NaT's, but rather the resident expert of *my* DA son.

I share custody of an 18 year old boy with my ex. It is her brother. We have had custody of him for several years. He is deaf, developmentally disabled and has anger/frustration issues. His ability to communicate is limited by his developmental disability - not because of his deafness. His anger comes from people not understanding him when he is trying to put thoughts out there. Society doesn't think that it's appropriate for him and my 9 year old daughter to play like 9 year olds. I give him passes all the time. I don't look at the 18 year old man standing there and expect him to act in a way that he simply cannot. I don't assume that I will need to only tell him things once or twice. In fact, I have gotten frustrated and realized that I was yelling after the 5th time I've told him something because he wasn't getting it. By my yelling, I was causing more of a problem, he wasn't understanding what I was saying so then he is reacting to my anger. He doesn't know why I'm angry, just that I am. He can tell by my tone and overall look of annoyance. He does things that he doesn't know are wrong. Like the playing like a child thing - or carving the word superman into my grandmothers 70 year old china hutch. I can berate him for that. Or I can tell him in simple words that it's not ok and with gentleness then move on. He already has by the time the conversation is happening.

I also have different opinions on personal safety issues. I realize there are online stalkers out there and have experienced it first hand. I understand being a violent crime victim, as I have been, but how I deal with the fallout of that experience is different than the examples I have seen here. For me, online is something that I have the choice to walk away from - I can either employ the "ignore" feature or I can just turn it off and walk away - or I can do both - or neither.

I agree. Personal safety is a huge issue. I am responsible for limiting the amount of online information that I make available. So that just ANYONE can't find me. My experience has been that there are people lurking that say nothing and pop up unexpectedly..

For me, continuing to give life/energy to a situation/issue is something I can control. I have found, just like with Bratboy and the arm tapping, the more attention I give to the unwanted behavior, the more he engages. If I disengage by ignoring it, he usually gets tired and ceases. I try to apply this same logic to online folks - if I don't engage, its pretty hard to offend/be inappropriate with me.

Again, I agree. Although in my case, he has a habit of sucking his top lip. Everytime I see him doing it I have to say stop it. Stop it. Stop it. It doesn't stop. If I ignore it, he will suck the top of his lip raw. I am stopping the behavior only for that moment. When he gets angry, we do walk away and let him cool off until we can come back to the table. This is where I think the higher capacity comes in. His parents didn't do that. His parents hit him, lashed out, called him stupid - ugh. I have the higher level of understanding and capacity - it is my responsibilty not to engage. (For me this is in real time or online.) My ex, sometimes has that capacity, it was much more difficult to not engage with her mental illness since she wasn't always present if that makes sense.

*I* don't give the same weight to online interactions as I do real-time ones. I concern myself more with keeping my eye on billybubbabob redneck who can follow us home from wally world and do me and mine physical harm.

In saying that, I am NOT saying that I advocate different standards/rules/expectations of DA's in online communities. I do think that one set of rules for all should be the expectation. How we, as a community, go about ensuring the rules are applied equally is the issue and what I thought was the intent of this thread.

Me too. Although, I think and I am pretty sure that this is how it is anyway - the report button works if you chose to use it. My line of thinking is this - everyone is going to screw up one way or another at some point. There is a TOS - most people have read it, some people don't understand it. If someone says something that I think is offensive, wrong, dangerous or upsetting I *CAN* push that report button. In doing that I am reporting a TOS violation that I see. I also have the option of personally giving someone a pass by NOT doing it. If what I know of the person is that this post is out of the norm for them - I don't have to report it. If I read this person as struggling all the time - I don't have to report it. If I know that english is their second language and they most likely didn't mean it - I don't have to report it. I personally chose to give passes when I feel they are appropriate. In that way, *I* don't enforce the TOS (well - ever it's not my job but I hope you follow me) but I am not enforcing it the same way for all people all the time. If someone just flat out irks me constantly. They annoy me. I hate the way they post or the stupid things they say - I CAN ignore them. I don't have to. I can keep getting annoyed and upset.

I believe that DA's should be treated as an 'ism. I wouldn't want to be part of a place that allows DA's to be discriminated against, any more than I want to be part of a place that allowed other types of discrimination.

I want to mention that I am off to TN and won't be around the thread much for the next 4 days - my absence is not that I am leaving the conversation because I think that it is important and timely.

Have fun in TN!

[Glenn]

I've seen some folks that are usually sweethearts here, get timed out because they had a beef about another member, groups of members, or a topic. I think that special care should be given to these members via a private message in an understanding way, along with a warning, rather than a moderator only giving a warning once or twice in the forum.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

I've seen some folks that are usually sweethearts here, get timed out because they had a beef about another member, groups of members, or a topic. I think that special care should be given to these members via a private message in an understanding way, along with a warning, rather than a moderator only giving a warning once or twice in the forum.

That is what is done. It's when the private warnings go unheeded that it is taken to public action.

[SuperFemme]

i am in incredible pain right now but feel compelled to post.

i thank everyone for participating, its an important conversation.

i want to reiterate AGAIN that giving a pass is not about erasing empathy and compassion. people don't seem to be getting that message....

a "pass" is a different set of rules for DA people and a complete lack of personal responsibility.

as the Disability Ambassador for the site, i can assure you that the planet goes out of it's way to take into account peoples DA's.

what the planet is not going to do (i'm pretty sure) is to make DA people a special class that is not responsible for their own behaviors.

i also find it SO incredibly dismissing that as a DA person asking to be treated that same as everyone else, that i am hearing over and over (by non DA'd people no less) how important it is for me to be treated differently.

christie, you assumed snow was talking about a specific member and claimed you knew because of specific interactions you had witnessed. she told you it was not. i found your responses to snow incredibly dismissive.

after reading this thread, i worry that a woman who has been raped, stalked, harassed, etc. will come to this thread and read that if a DA person is the perp that they are not protected. in fact it really feels like some people have twisted it into a "blame the victim" kind of thing, by shaming the offended person. saying it is up to the offended person to not be offended is beyond the pale IMO. and i'm not talking about hurt feelings or simply not getting along. i am talking about the rules that are in place here to make it safe for everyone.

some of the examples given as reasons for a different set of rules are really really a far stretch.

for instance the example of somebody being 25 but congnitively 13. Even 5 year olds know the difference between right and wrong. this is an adult website and when i first came to the b/f online community 9 years ago?
i was about 5 or 6 on a cognitive level. i was banned about 3 times during that period. i was not able to exist in an adult environment, and when i was able to? i came back.

i don't even want to get into how damaging it would be for members to go around assigning age, cognitive level, and diagnosis for our DA membership. can you imagine?

i also was really upset by the poor example of a drunk driver killing somebody vs. a person having a heart attack and killing someone. seriously? drunk driving is a fucking choice that kills thousands every year. i was almost one of those. to compare it to a medical emergency and attempt to assign "intent" to it is a red herring. there is no such thing as DWCA (driving with clogged arteries) is there? there is absolute intent when a person gets behind the wheel drunk.

i'm running out of steam, but i want everyone to know that the mods and admins deal with issues on a case by case basis. that has been said many many times, and it is absolutely true.

so social blunder, awkwardness, cognitive issues and all other things attached to DA people is always taken into account.

the owners and mods must also take every single member into account and what is safe sometimes.

i AM DA'd. I want the same rules. When people who are not DA'd come along and purport to know what's best for me and then lower their expectations it sends me a message. that message is that i will never be like you.

when i am sent the message that i am responsible for my actions, you can bet that i am going to rise to the level of expectation that is given to me.

it's rare that i've run into a DA'd person who does not.

at rehab i'd see the over protective mom, wheeling her kid around, feeding her lunch, and even attempting to sit in classes such as social skills. once the staff banned the mom from the property the child improved by leaps and bounds. why? because they rose to the level of expectations that the rehab put upon them.

i am always going to treat all members as human beings. that means compassion and empathy being extended. will i make mistakes? you bet.
but i am not about to diminish the other DA'd members here by expecting nothing of them. we're a great bunch, and there are a LOT of DA'd members here who won't out themselves as DA'd because they don't want to be viewed through that lens.

i don't blame them.

i don't know if any of this makes any sense, i shouldn't even be posting the day after surgery and my pain level is about a 13 right now.

[violaine]

[QUOTE=popcorninthesofa;153481]I've seen some folks that are usually sweethearts here, get timed out because they had a beef about another member, groups of members, or a topic. I think that special care should be given to these members via a private message in an understanding way, along with a warning, rather than a moderator only giving a warning once or twice in the forum.

some people are given private messages for reported posts/other issues via a PM 'warning'. i'm not sure how 'understanding' the message can be read, because i think, they might be kind of a form letter/general-type reminder. i've received a couple of them over the years, [whether or not i agreed with the 'warnings' i chose to not 'dispute' the issued warnings] because i have observed interactions over the years, and learned some interesting and valuable differences between NT-AT processing, and how it presents online in certain areas.

with regard to warning letters issued, 'fairness' for the NT-AT 'set up' - i.e., the big picture, can be rather complex! in my case, sure, the warning was right/true- in part! it takes two for me to even get to that point, and yes, i take responsibility for my own 'actions'. i know that i am not as savvy in some areas, nor do i have any interest in setting someone up to 'get caught' or 'fail'. the report button has only been hit by me once elsewhere.

so, whenever i hear things from offending person- claims: to be good friends with certain people, wishing me luck with any of my own 'reporting', and on and on- this is the kind of complicated arena that someone like me, on the spectrum, cannot NAVIGATE. by the time it comes for this AT to try and compose a thought out letter to any [and which??] moderator, situation is so layered/twisted and i am so worn out, that the only thing clear, and what very well may have been seen clearly- was indeed my fuck up, because i wrote very straightforwardly, in my way, to offending person.

a friend of mine said the only people who would understand what i'm trying to convey would be those who are on the spectrum. is this true? if so, then the majority sees me right now claiming 'victim' role? that is simply not my truth. opportunities to see a depth can get blown away when many other pieces/parts contributing to larger issues are there, but "if" people only remain in the black and white, or listen to people online who listen to other people online, and maintain 'oh, she's just playing a Victim again' how does this help for future issues involving NT-AT interactions and very different processing? i could imagine the people who are moderators turning grey overnight from handling such issues!

[SuperFemme]

I'm pretty sure that NOBODY on this site has EVER been timed out for disagreeing with a person or groups of people. If so, I'd like to see where.

I am also pretty sure that there is no form letter response on this site.

Interactions with mods/admins are personal and one on one conversations, not form letters. The Planet has done a great job of NOT giving time outs and bans as a rule.

Violane, I've never seen you in the role of a victim. Ever. I hear what you are saying about somebody being nasty and saying they are good friends with certain people and wishing you "luck". That is outright shitty behavior, and not tolerated here.

I think it's important to separate what happened at the dash site with the set up here. Because the two things are light years apart.

I also want to put out there that is anybody with a different ability is having an issue (be it with the mods or other members) that you can pm me. As the DA Ambassador here it is my job to make sure that the DA members are treated fairly. If anyone feels like that is NOT happening, please contact me and I can act as a mediator if necessary, or point you in the right direction.

[adorable]

[quote=violaine;153529]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

I've seen some folks that are usually sweethearts here, get timed out because they had a beef about another member, groups of members, or a topic. I think that special care should be given to these members via a private message in an understanding way, along with a warning, rather than a moderator only giving a warning once or twice in the forum.

some people are given private messages for reported posts/other issues via a PM 'warning'. i'm not sure how 'understanding' the message can be read, because i think, they might be kind of a form letter/general-type reminder. i've received a couple of them over the years, [whether or not i agreed with the 'warnings' i chose to not 'dispute' the issued warnings] because i have observed interactions over the years, and learned some interesting and valuable differences between NT-AT processing, and how it presents online in certain areas.

with regard to warning letters issued, 'fairness' for the NT-AT 'set up' - i.e., the big picture, can be rather complex! in my case, sure, the warning was right/true- in part! it takes two for me to even get to that point, and yes, i take responsibility for my own 'actions'. i know that i am not as savvy in some areas, nor do i have any interest in setting someone up to 'get caught' or 'fail'. the report button has only been hit by me once elsewhere.

so, whenever i hear things from offending person- claims: to be good friends with certain people, wishing me luck with any of my own 'reporting', and on and on- this is the kind of complicated arena that someone like me, on the spectrum, cannot NAVIGATE. by the time it comes for this AT to try and compose a thought out letter to any [and which??] moderator, situation is so layered/twisted and i am so worn out, that the only thing clear, and what very well may have been seen clearly- was indeed my fuck up, because i wrote very straightforwardly, in my way, to offending person.

a friend of mine said the only people who would understand what i'm trying to convey would be those who are on the spectrum. is this true? if so, then the majority sees me right now claiming 'victim' role? that is simply not my truth. opportunities to see a depth can get blown away when many other pieces/parts contributing to larger issues are there, but "if" people only remain in the black and white, or listen to people online who listen to other people online, and maintain 'oh, she's just playing a Victim again' how does this help for future issues involving NT-AT interactions and very different processing? i could imagine the people who are moderators turning grey overnight from handling such issues!

I am not sure why but I don't have a ton of trouble understanding people who have Aspergers in general and I never have trouble reading you. I am not sure if it's because I know certain people have it so I read them differently because of it.

I hope that you and anyone else that has this could answer a some questions that I have been wondering since I read your post.

I wondered if online forums are more difficult for you personally to navigate more then face to face interactions?

And this may seem to be a dumb question, I know more about autism itself, but are there degrees of Aspergers like there is with autism? And since I am asking questions...is it in posting that you have the most trouble? I'm not sure if I worded that right. What I mean is do you tend to read your posts and think you are being clear, even when people may be saying that you are not being clear?

Do you ever find that people repeat themselves to you? But that you feel like you are clear on what they mean? Yet, they are not clear that you are understanding what they mean? That may have just confused ME. I hope that makes sense, I know what I'm trying to say I just may not have the right words.

Are there ways of communicating that help you? I know that my boifriend has dyslexia and that if I keep my sentences shorter and not bunch them together in a paragraph it makes it easier for hym to read. Is there a way to write to make anything easier if you have Aspergers?

I'm just wondering, thank you for posting!

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

I've seen some folks that are usually sweethearts here, get timed out because they had a beef about another member, groups of members, or a topic. I think that special care should be given to these members via a private message in an understanding way, along with a warning, rather than a moderator only giving a warning once or twice in the forum.

I am fully aware I am a community member that is not a *sweetheart* and what I mean by that is I don't post all sugary and sweet nor do I add any form of glitter be it verbal or visual. Am I a sweet heart at all? Most likely to those I love and care for and those who I have spent some kind of invested time with. I find it funny in the ironic funny ha ha kind of way that if I had been a more *sweet* kind of posting femme the stories would be different.

The outrage would be different and this thread may have continued with it's intent. *I* am feeling this because when I read that if you are DA and NT and there is some form of inappropriate behaviours the NT persons experience is dismissed.

No means NO..

It's universal, nowhere in this world can you scream out no to someone who is crossing a line (regardless of how small that line is) and then the person screaming no will be looked upon as being wrong, lacking empathy and for the shame having someone wag their finger at them for putting themselves in that situation or for not just walking away.

I am in awe at this very thought.

The world regardless of our capacities has rules, NO

STOP

LEAVE ME ALONE

are things we are ALL taught to respect. I was at least in a few languages.

I can't wrap my head around the whole some people you can tell no to and they don't have to listen to you thinking.

I can't wrap my mind around the whole if you type like this and smile and spread sunshine and some you are valued more vs the
people who tend not to be so sweet and are a lil more brutal. I call that double standards. That's just me though, and while fully aware that this is an image I live with, and am fine with I still gotta say it's gross to watch the value according to who is more important and who is not.

When someone gets told over and over and over and it's handled by the person, by mods, by the leaders of the community and they still choose to not heed those warnings should they be given a special pass to say whatever they want at any given time?

If yes why?

Why can't everyone have that pass?

How uncomfortable for the people who aren't as assertive as some of us, who will get their boundaries crossed because they read this and get the feeling that well, I really can't do anything because I am going to be looked upon as the bad guy and they the person with some difference other than what you have.

How odd that some people only harrass femmes, yet don't try this kind of assertiveness with butches or guys in this community. THAT says a lot to ME.... Cause why pick on the feminine and femme women why not cross those boundaries with the butches and guys? Makes me go hmm...


In addition:

There's a reason survivors of abuse kept their mouths shut, it just hit me
we do it because we are shamed and treated like we did something wrong.
Pretty fucked up

[adorable]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I am fully aware I am a community member that is not a *sweetheart* and what I mean by that is I don't post all sugary and sweet nor do I add any form of glitter be it verbal or visual. Am I a sweet heart at all? Most likely to those I love and care for and those who I have spent some kind of invested time with. I find it funny in the ironic funny ha ha kind of way that if I had been a more *sweet* kind of posting femme the stories would be different.

I read popcorn as responding to Voltaine's post. I may be wrong about that.

The outrage would be different and this thread may have continued with it's intent. *I* am feeling this because when I read that if you are DA and NT and there is some form of inappropriate behaviours the NT persons experience is dismissed.


The outrage at what? We aren't talking specifics.

No means NO..

100% correct IMO. People have said so and agreed with abuse and physical safety being a serious concern.

It's universal, nowhere in this world can you scream out no to someone who is crossing a line (regardless of how small that line is) and then the person screaming no will be looked upon as being wrong, lacking empathy and for the shame having someone wag their finger at them for putting themselves in that situation or for not just walking away.

I am in awe at this very thought.

The world regardless of our capacities has rules, NO

STOP

LEAVE ME ALONE

are things we are ALL taught to respect. I was at least in a few languages.

I can't wrap my head around the whole some people you can tell no to and they don't have to listen to you thinking.

I can't wrap my mind around the whole if you type like this and smile and spread sunshine and some you are valued more vs the
people who tend not to be so sweet and are a lil more brutal. I call that double standards.

I'm not sure that is what is being said.

That's just me though, and while fully aware that this is an image I live with, and am fine with I still gotta say it's gross to watch the value according to who is more important and who is not.

When someone gets told over and over and over and it's handled by the person, by mods, by the leaders of the community and they still choose to not heed those warnings should they be given a special pass to say whatever they want at any given time?

I didn't think that was the discussion everyone was having.

If yes why?

Why can't everyone have that pass?

How uncomfortable for the people who aren't as assertive as some of us, who will get their boundaries crossed because they read this and get the feeling that well, I really can't do anything because I am going to be looked upon as the bad guy and they the person with some difference other than what you have.

Are people who are not as assertive as the rest of us given a pass to not have to take care of themselves?

How odd that some people only harrass femmes, yet don't try this kind of assertiveness with butches or guys in this community. THAT says a lot to ME.... Cause why pick on the feminine and femme women why not cross those boundaries with the butches and guys? Makes me go hmm...

But we aren't talking about specific situations. That isn't the purpose of this thread.


In addition:

There's a reason survivors of abuse kept their mouths shut, it just hit me
we do it because we are shamed and treated like we did something wrong.
Pretty fucked up



Who shamed who or treated you like you did something wrong? Is it possible that posts are being taken personally when that isn't intended? I tend to be direct, and if I have something I say I say to the person I want to say it to. That for me is seperate then having a discussion on what I think is an important topic that SF wanted people to discuss.

We can't talk about you and not talk about you at the same time. If this thread isn't about a specific person or situation then the discussion can continue it would seem to me. If we are going to make it about a specific person and situation then that is kind of weird since SF has already made it clear it is NOT. But the going back and forth thing is confusing me.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I am fully aware I am a community member that is not a *sweetheart* and what I mean by that is I don't post all sugary and sweet nor do I add any form of glitter be it verbal or visual. Am I a sweet heart at all? Most likely to those I love and care for and those who I have spent some kind of invested time with. I find it funny in the ironic funny ha ha kind of way that if I had been a more *sweet* kind of posting femme the stories would be different.

The outrage would be different and this thread may have continued with it's intent. *I* am feeling this because when I read that if you are DA and NT and there is some form of inappropriate behaviours the NT persons experience is dismissed.

No means NO..

It's universal, nowhere in this world can you scream out no to someone who is crossing a line (regardless of how small that line is) and then the person screaming no will be looked upon as being wrong, lacking empathy and for the shame having someone wag their finger at them for putting themselves in that situation or for not just walking away.

I am in awe at this very thought.

The world regardless of our capacities has rules, NO

STOP

LEAVE ME ALONE

are things we are ALL taught to respect. I was at least in a few languages.

I can't wrap my head around the whole some people you can tell no to and they don't have to listen to you thinking.

I can't wrap my mind around the whole if you type like this and smile and spread sunshine and some you are valued more vs the
people who tend not to be so sweet and are a lil more brutal. I call that double standards. That's just me though, and while fully aware that this is an image I live with, and am fine with I still gotta say it's gross to watch the value according to who is more important and who is not.

When someone gets told over and over and over and it's handled by the person, by mods, by the leaders of the community and they still choose to not heed those warnings should they be given a special pass to say whatever they want at any given time?

If yes why?

Why can't everyone have that pass?

How uncomfortable for the people who aren't as assertive as some of us, who will get their boundaries crossed because they read this and get the feeling that well, I really can't do anything because I am going to be looked upon as the bad guy and they the person with some difference other than what you have.

How odd that some people only harrass femmes, yet don't try this kind of assertiveness with butches or guys in this community. THAT says a lot to ME.... Cause why pick on the feminine and femme women why not cross those boundaries with the butches and guys? Makes me go hmm...


In addition:

There's a reason survivors of abuse kept their mouths shut, it just hit me
we do it because we are shamed and treated like we did something wrong.
Pretty fucked up

Seriously, we are not saying you need to put up with anything or be abused. Just that people communicate differently and that in some cases for many of us the ignore is useful or that maybe people with special communications needs could have a buddy they run their posts through before they post.

Some of your posts can seem inflamatory at times and so can mine, but we know each other in person and know what intent is behind the posts for the most part...or I hope so Not everyone has this honor.

In a situation where both parties have been abused and are filled with anger, things can escalate to a point where things are said in anger that no one means and these situations could be avoided in the first place with some intervention....I agree that if you do not know the person it is impossible to tell if they are in fact a threat or just talking smack and we should err on the side of caution.

Now, I have said over and over that there are some people who are likely not able to make these distinctions and who refuse to use the ignore button or ask for moderation or for a friend to vet their posts. If over time outs and discussions nothing seems to help, at some point the owners and mods are going to have to make a big decision, is the person worth helping or not.

My opinion? We have people of both types here and sadly someone is going to have to make the decision of how much is too much.

[JustBeingMe]

I have to say that June is completely right. I have had several interactions since I joined, with mods, for whatever reasons we needed to, and they were NOT form types, they were typing LIVE to me. The mods and admins here are very compassionate and try their best to resolve things in the best manner possible. I am grateful for them doing so. On other sites, it's just hit you and run. No discussion with you at all. Your presumed guilty and judged without any interactions with them. Its really sad too.
I am Glad we have the mods and admins we do and that they are compassionate.
Thank you June.
Signed,
Me.

[JustBeingMe]

I believe SuperFemme would make a great Ambassador for the Differently Abled. Thank you for starting this thread, SF, and making it a place for much needed discussion. I too am disabled, and have ptsd, anxiety and depression, which can sometimes have an effect upon me how I read posts or reply to them in heated discussions. So, I have forced myself to use the iggy button to keep me from interacting the wrong way. I also have strong values and those are unbendable and I don't see the grey areas well enough at times, and that also causes me to react strongly over things too. So, I use the iggy button when I get to the point of being sucked into drama online. I have to. I can't handle any kind of drama in real time or online. It becomes way too much for me and sets off my issues like ptsd, and my anxiety and sometimes it deepens my depression.
ok I'll stop rattling my mind.
But seriously, Thanks SF for stepping up to the plate for us.
B.