The Never-Ending Bathroom Debate

[Linus]

Ender: I do agree but I have to toss a monkey wrench in it: I can pretty much guarantee that even if such washrooms existed here, someone will cry "But women could be raped!" and that would shut down such ideas. As long as the FUDing (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) discussions continue, I'd doubt we'd ever see truly gender neutral washrooms on a large scale here in the US. This nation is a nation of causing/propagating FUD. It's what drives so much of it.

And that is the sad part.

[BullDog]

Linus, women do get raped. It's not fear, uncertainty or doubt. So what exactly are you saying?

[Linus]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Linus, women do get raped. It's not fear, uncertainty or doubt. So what exactly are you saying?

Sorry I should have been clearer. I know women get raped. So do men. But to assume that ALL rapes occur in the washroom (as posited by the right wing and such) is hyperbole.

The majority of rape occurs in the home. Since rape is often the reason to keep washrooms gender specific, why not keep homes gender specific?

[BullDog]

OK, well I have never heard of the right wing positing that all rapes occur in the washroom. I do think it's quite clear the right wing doesn't have women's safety as a top priority given what they are trying to get passed through the U.S. Congress right now.

[Linus]

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/...n-bathroom-ads

[BullDog]

Ok thanks Linus. The logic of the commercials don't make sense of course. The man going into the bathroom after the child goes in would not be "legal." That's absurd.

Also what if they show a boy going into a men's bathroom instead of a girl, and show the scary looking dude going in after him? That was already "legal."

I don't think a child that age should be going into a bathroom alone, and I don't think the children should be playing unsupervised.

[Linus]

Yup. That's what I was trying to point out. Florida's attempt (I think this was attempted in 2007/2008) at a gender neutral law in regards to washroom shows a lot of what the right seem to think of washroom neutrality and, in particular, the "threat" of transwomen in the woman's washroom.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Linus

Ender: I do agree but I have to toss a monkey wrench in it: I can pretty much guarantee that even if such washrooms existed here, someone will cry "But women could be raped!" and that would shut down such ideas. As long as the FUDing (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) discussions continue, I'd doubt we'd ever see truly gender neutral washrooms on a large scale here in the US. This nation is a nation of causing/propagating FUD. It's what drives so much of it.

And that is the sad part.

Linus, actually I think the suggestion I've made might actually solve the problem of women potentially being sexually assaulted in public washrooms. Basically, what I'm suggesting is that instead of bathrooms stalls (such as those found in European nations rather than in North American nations) being placed in separated male/female washrooms, they're not placed in a room behind a door at all. Basically, the washroom remains visible from the outside (have something like this in Europe in those open "pay" washrooms/showers where you put a coin into a slot, go through a turnstile where employees give you a towel if you're showering in a single-person unit or allow you into a row of floor-to-ceiling washroom stalls. The stalls are then solid ceiling-to-floor stalls like in western Europe, with strong bolts/locks that are difficult to break through, and only big enough for one person. Nobody can get into the stall when someone is using it, and once you get out of the stall to wash your hands, you're mostly in public view making it extremly difficult for assault to occur without the establishment's employees/security noticing.

Also, you could actually add security rather easily to a washroom like this. If you've been to Europe then you've probably seen that many washrooms have an employee of an establishment paid specifically to sit in a washroom and collect change from patrons using the washroom/paper towel (depending on where you go). I've actually seen a few bars and clubs in Toronto adopt something similar, making the washroom safer for lone women using the washroom. I think WrongBar has something like that if I remember correctly. You could very easily replace such a position by a makeshift security guard who would promote both public safety and a more environmentally friendly approach (paying small change for paper towel, instead of people using huge gobs of it like they often do).

I wish I could find pictures online of the model I'm talking about, because with this post I realise I've actually seen similar washrooms in Europe that are totally open with a series of closed off stalls, and employees handing out towels to dry your hands or after a shower.

Does what I've written make sense? Not sure if i've explained it well enough.