Stone Femme?

[spritzerJ]

Originally Posted by stone4play

When I think of a stone femme, I think of the individual you are portraying here. The assured confident woman that knows for sure and certain that she does not want to have any part with feminizing her stone butch partner. Ok allow me to kind of explain where my mind is going with this... As I mentioned in the stone butch thread, I had partners months and years later in our relationship ask for the unaskable... To me, and speaking strictly for myself, it makes me a bit uneasy and standoffish to hear a femme say that she is "open to anything." It kind of feels like there is room for options, but for me I am certain that there is absolutely, positively no options. I guess it's that trust thing and my past experiences that have me feeling like this. I just want to know that the femme I partner with is 100% certain. There is someone for everyone and just because I am strict with how I expect things to be does not mean that there are not different levels to the stone butch continuum. I am just saying that I am all the way to the far right on that continuum... like... back against the wall, no more space for further options, far right. I hope this does not offend anyone and how they perceive themselves to be... This is my own personal feeling about the stone butch that I am. And thank you for this thread and all your words on the topic... I am thoroughly enjoying it!!

First....
Thank you all for sharing on this topic. It is a blessing to be allowed to explore understanding through your experiences and thoughts.

Next...
I choose to quote stone4play because it speaks to my fear/concern... How does one explore their changing notions of themselves and sexual expression without hurting, pushing, disrespecting others in the process? I deeply do not want to hurt others in my deepening and awakening. I know it is a risk... so I continue to read and hope conversations will lead to clarity while limiting risk.

Further more... My understanding of boundaries, what I desire, really desire, in an intimate relationship are emerging as I learn the words for what I feel. As my pain illuminates what I want to be by being in contrast to how I am being. I feel like I can breath a bit knowing "stonefemme" is something I can define and refine. I am thrilled to know that being the receiver is pleasure for another. I strongly desire to be, not just submissive, a person that creates a place for one to be and receive them and have my enjoyment be their pleasure, a shared pleasure.

[jac]

Originally Posted by jenna8987

First....
Thank you all for sharing on this topic. It is a blessing to be allowed to explore understanding through your experiences and thoughts.

Next...
I choose to quote stone4play because it speaks to my fear/concern... How does one explore their changing notions of themselves and sexual expression without hurting, pushing, disrespecting others in the process? I deeply do not want to hurt others in my deepening and awakening. I know it is a risk... so I continue to read and hope conversations will lead to clarity while limiting risk.

Further more... My understanding of boundaries, what I desire, really desire, in an intimate relationship are emerging as I learn the words for what I feel. As my pain illuminates what I want to be by being in contrast to how I am being. I feel like I can breath a bit knowing "stonefemme" is something I can define and refine. I am thrilled to know that being the receiver is pleasure for another. I strongly desire to be, not just submissive, a person that creates a place for one to be and receive them and have my enjoyment be their pleasure, a shared pleasure.

Rereading my entry seems to give the impression that all I am after is an experienced stonefemme. Perhaps that is where I was in the moment of that entry but I have since come to realize that even I, as a stone butch, had to explore and experiment in order to know exactly what I was seeking and who I was. I liken it now unto an individual seeking a job... one cannot get a job if they do not have the experience, but they cannot get the experience if they do not have a job. I see now that yes, it is something that needs to be worked out (together) in order for both people to realize that they are stone compatible. Keeping an open mind, allows for an open heart, which in turn leaves the door open for all things possible... Thanks for your post Jenna

[spritzerJ]

I am amazed by our (humans) capacity for growth. That when one is graced with an opportunity to see something a different way it becomes art. There is an art to our conversation about who we are and an art to how we choose to interact with each other.

I needed to read what you said, Stone4play, oh such a short time ago. It gives light to our connectedness in our explorations and need to not only be open but clear.

Originally Posted by stone4play

Rereading my entry seems to give the impression that all I am after is an experienced stonefemme. Perhaps that is where I was in the moment of that entry but I have since come to realize that even I, as a stone butch, had to explore and experiment in order to know exactly what I was seeking and who I was. I liken it now unto an individual seeking a job... one cannot get a job if they do not have the experience, but they cannot get the experience if they do not have a job. I see now that yes, it is something that needs to be worked out (together) in order for both people to realize that they are stone compatible. Keeping an open mind, allows for an open heart, which in turn leaves the door open for all things possible... Thanks for your post Jenna

[SweetJane]

As I posted in another thread, I have appreciated the freedom that an identity serves. When I came to the insight that I was a stone femme, it explained a lot and allowed me to accept all that I was and what I could give---without guilt. That's the big thing here.

Being stone sets boundaries. But in some circles where there is little understanding, it makes us selfish or cold in some way.

There is another connection in stone intimacy that we don't talk about. That "energy" that emerges between two stones is more than just lust. Sometimes it takes on a spiritual note because of the level of trust that is being offered. And if that couple explores areas that slip beyond vanilla, the trust and caring is magnified.

But finding that counterpart is a challenge. I am reluctant to mingle in the wider lesbian community in real time and lead with my heart because I do not want to become fond of someone, knowing I can't deliver what they want and need.

It is often a lonely road we stones walk, ever alert for that person who is our complement. But that is also what makes us who we are.

[Cid]

Originally Posted by SweetJane

As I posted in another thread, I have appreciated the freedom that an identity serves. When I came to the insight that I was a stone femme, it explained a lot and allowed me to accept all that I was and what I could give---without guilt. That's the big thing here.

Being stone sets boundaries. But in some circles where there is little understanding, it makes us selfish or cold in some way.

There is another connection in stone intimacy that we don't talk about. That "energy" that emerges between two stones is more than just lust. Sometimes it takes on a spiritual note because of the level of trust that is being offered. And if that couple explores areas that slip beyond vanilla, the trust and caring is magnified.

But finding that counterpart is a challenge. I am reluctant to mingle in the wider lesbian community in real time and lead with my heart because I do not want to become fond of someone, knowing I can't deliver what they want and need.

It is often a lonely road we stones walk, ever alert for that person who is our complement. But that is also what makes us who we are.

I just started reading this part of the board and I'm so glad I took the time. I've struggled with this for a long time. When I first started dating a woman she was a stone butch. I didn't really know anything about anything at that time, but I did know that having sex with her was amazing. At the same time, I felt like I was being selfish and that I wasn't doing what I needed to do to please her. It took quite a bit of convincing, but I got it. After that, the sex was so amazing. And as you said Jane, the energy was like nothing I've ever felt before. I felt like I could fly, it was so intense.

When we parted, I started dating a butch, but she wasn't stone. I tried to please her, but it was more of a struggle for me and I just couldn't do it. Eventually that partnership ended. I knew that I couldn't give her what she need or wanted and the guilt made it too hard to live with.

So now I know that I'm not defining myself by what someone else wants, it's what I want. And the best thing about it, is that I don't have to feel guilty about it.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Cid

So now I know that I'm not defining myself by what someone else wants, it's what I want. And the best thing about it, is that I don't have to feel guilty about it.

Love the sense of empowerment in this statement!

[ValKyrie]

Wow... this has been really amazing for me to read. Up until a little more then a year ago, I had never heard the word stone in relation to butch and femme. I was pretty sheltered, though. Even though I have known that I preferred women (the butch kind) since I was a teenager, I only just came out last August. I've been married twice to bio men, and have had sex with a lot of bio men, trying to convince myself that I really was hetero. I have had a lot of secret trysts with butches over the years before I came out, but I still never heard the term stone.

As I am reading these threads about stonefemme and stone butch, I am realizing that I really fit here. I was drawn to these threads because I am currently in a committed relationship with a stone butch, and it has been hard to find others who understand what that is. And after reading I'm starting to wonder if I am stonefemme. I LOVE being with my guy! She rocks my world in ways I didn't know were possible. At first it was difficult for me to understand that she didn't want me to touch her certain ways, or only wanted me to touch her in certain places if she actually put my hand there, and she told me before we ever had sex that she never wanted to recieve oral or be penetrated in any way. I had the kind of mindset that I needed to please my sexual partners, and if I didn't instigate touching her that I wasn't really pleasing her. She was really patient and gentle with me and I came to an understanding about what pleases her.

So on to me and my possible stoness (is that a word? ha!)... Being with my stone, I have discovered what it is to feel true pleasure. I have struggled with past sexual encounters, to reach an orgasm. In my current relationship I am multiple orgasmic. I have reached an orgasm just from her whispering in my ear and telling me to cum. Thinking about it, I really think it has to do with being able to let go and just be in the moment with my partner. I don't spend the whole time thinking about whether I'm touching them right, or if they like what I am doing. I don't have to guess. I am realizing that in the past, I did so many things with partners, that I really didn't like, didn't feel comfortable with, or just plain disgusted me. But I did it, because I felt like I had to please my partner. With my current partner, it really gets me off to know that she gets so caught up in my pleasure that she is pleased. I don't have to think about every little touch, or sound I make. I can let go and just feel and react to her, and if she wants more or different she shows me what it is. I can't imagine going back to being with someone who was not stone. I don't want to wear a strap on... not ever! And I have found that I like touching her in some areas but only when she is guiding me and showing me and telling me. Maybe it has more to do with a dominance thing? I am really fierce and more dominant outside of the bedroom, but I am really submissive when it comes to sex.

So I still don't know for sure... I don't really like labels, but it is relieving to find others who feel similar to me. Thank you... I will continue to read and absorb from this weatlh of information and experience.

[aishah]

i relate to the term stone more emotionally rather than sexually. i have plenty of friends who are stone femmes (who have clear boundaries around touch during sex and but some also id as stone because of their emotional boundaries rather than their physical ones). my partner is a stone butch and again, although there is a big physical element for him, being stone is a big part of who he is emotionally.

i've always been very emotionally demonstrative and outgoing, as well as pretty comfortable with lots of different stuff sexually. i never thought that i would id as stone until i became a sex worker. but now i can definitely feel emotional walls as well as sometimes physical ones going up for me. this thread has been really helpful to read as this is something i'm struggling with right now (literally a lot in the last 24 hours, but also over the last year or so i think).

[boobookitty]

I was a little suprised to not see the terms, ice princess or ice queen. (I might have missed it) I have known a very feminine woman who could not tolerate being touched, but she was still very passionate. and very lovely and beautiful. She called herself an Ice Queen. Because men called her fridged. So, it was a way of reclaiming the intended insult as a compliment. She did not want to be touched, but she loved being watched.
(glassy eyed-stupid grin-good memory)

[SweetJane]

I think there are two kinds of stone femme in discussion here.

One is the stone femme who seeks out a stone butch and who respects hys desire not to be touched in intimate places not just because it is hys wish but it is because she has no desire to touch hym there. That is the kind of stone femme I am and most stone femmes are.

However there are other stone femmes who do not wish to be touched in certain areas. That is a wholly different orientation. Some of these stone femmes are tops.

[boobookitty]

Originally Posted by SweetJane

... However there are other stone femmes who do not wish to be touched in certain areas. That is a wholly different orientation. Some of these stone femmes are tops.

Yes, this is the type of woman I learned to address as Ice Queen or Ice Princess, (different than a pillow queen/ pillow princess)

[thedivahrrrself]

This is exactly why I don't ID as Stone Femme, though I only date Stone Butches/TG's. I call myself a Queer Femme because I only date those outside the gender binary.

I am with you, Jane, in the first variety of Stone Femme.

Originally Posted by SweetJane

I think there are two kinds of stone femme in discussion here.

One is the stone femme who seeks out a stone butch and who respects hys desire not to be touched in intimate places not just because it is hys wish but it is because she has no desire to touch hym there. That is the kind of stone femme I am and most stone femmes are.

However there are other stone femmes who do not wish to be touched in certain areas. That is a wholly different orientation. Some of these stone femmes are tops.

[SoNotHer]

" I know it is a risk... so I continue to read and hope conversations will lead to clarity while limiting risk."

Well said as is your response in toto and other responses here. Self determination is necessarily linked to the freedom to do so without the worry of offense of pushback. It's gratifying to see folks feel free enough and supported enough to ruminate on and forge ahead with their identities. I think you speak to that and the environment it must be nurtured in as well. Your final sentence is exquisite. Thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by jenna8987

First....
Thank you all for sharing on this topic. It is a blessing to be allowed to explore understanding through your experiences and thoughts.

Next...
I choose to quote stone4play because it speaks to my fear/concern... How does one explore their changing notions of themselves and sexual expression without hurting, pushing, disrespecting others in the process? I deeply do not want to hurt others in my deepening and awakening. I know it is a risk... so I continue to read and hope conversations will lead to clarity while limiting risk.

Further more... My understanding of boundaries, what I desire, really desire, in an intimate relationship are emerging as I learn the words for what I feel. As my pain illuminates what I want to be by being in contrast to how I am being. I feel like I can breath a bit knowing "stonefemme" is something I can define and refine. I am thrilled to know that being the receiver is pleasure for another. I strongly desire to be, not just submissive, a person that creates a place for one to be and receive them and have my enjoyment be their pleasure, a shared pleasure.

[spritzerJ]

SoNotHer you are very kind in your openness and complement. I will try to honor the environment here that nurtures us all.

This exploration, naming of what I want, who I am is very daunting. I haven't felt this nervous since the women's retreat where we stood naked in front of each other. And that was very exposing....

Originally Posted by SoNotHer

" I know it is a risk... so I continue to read and hope conversations will lead to clarity while limiting risk."

Well said as is your response in toto and other responses here. Self determination is necessarily linked to the freedom to do so without the worry of offense of pushback. It's gratifying to see folks feel free enough and supported enough to ruminate on and forge ahead with their identities. I think you speak to that and the environment it must be nurtured in as well. Your final sentence is exquisite. Thank you for the post.