Infidelity

[BullDog]

I'm too lazy to go find the Tiger Woods thread again, but I certainly got a good chuckle over Tiger's announcement that he will be rejoining the PGA tour to play in the Masters. I should have set my egg timer on that one. That is what his public apology was about, lol.

Whether Sandra Bullock is nice or not nice, what does that have to do with whether or not she deserves to be cheated on or whether anyone should feel badly for her? What does it matter if someone is considered good looking or "plain?" No one deserves to be cheated on.

[AtLast]

My feelings boil down to this....

If you represent that you are monogamous and enter into a marriage (or relationship) as such..... don't cheat!

If you cannot be monogamous, don't make these kinds of promises. Be honest and seek relationsips with people that align with your belief structures.

And I don't have a problem with poly relationships if this is what is agreed upon. I don't date poly individuals because it just doesn't fit for me, personally. However, it does for other people.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

My feelings boil down to this....

If you represent that you are monogamous and enter into a marriage (or relationship) as such..... don't cheat!

If you cannot be monogamous, don't make these kinds of promises. Be honest and seek relationsips with people that align with your belief structures.

And I don't have a problem with poly relationships if this is what is agreed upon. I don't date poly individuals because it just doesn't fit for me, personally. However, it does for other people.

See here is the thing...

One can be in a monogamous relationship and things may change, illness or something that may cause one person to not fulfill the other.. I would think that if mah boo came to me said..

"sugar, our sex is just not cutting it for me, and well I was thinking we could open up our relationship to poly........" If I was not able to fulfill my cuddly bear I would want them to be happy yes? No sense in cheating, sometimes monogamy can't be fulfilled, *I* don't think monogamy is structured, for if it was.....

We would not have this thread....

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

See here is the thing...

One can be in a monogamous relationship and things may change, illness or something that may cause one person to not fulfill the other.. I would think that if mah boo came to me said..

"sugar, our sex is just not cutting it for me, and well I was thinking we could open up our relationship to poly........" If I was not able to fulfill my cuddly bear I would want them to be happy yes? No sense in cheating, sometimes monogamy can't be fulfilled, *I* don't think monogamy is structured, for if it was.....

We would not have this thread....

Snow said *cuddly bear*.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

See here is the thing...

One can be in a monogamous relationship and things may change, illness or something that may cause one person to not fulfill the other.. I would think that if mah boo came to me said..

"sugar, our sex is just not cutting it for me, and well I was thinking we could open up our relationship to poly........" If I was not able to fulfill my cuddly bear I would want them to be happy yes? No sense in cheating, sometimes monogamy can't be fulfilled, *I* don't think monogamy is structured, for if it was.....

We would not have this thread....

Yup, this can happen..... and if a partner wants to open it up, OK. Have to say, this wouldn't be true for me. Its about mutual agreement and I wouldn't agree to this. We would be working on our sexual relationship and go into counseling to do this.

The other thing that I need to say is that there are many ways to deal with illness and disability and sex. They are not mutually exclusive and I find this line of thinking to be part of a pervasive able-bodied privilege that exists.
Also, many of us take seriously the in sickness & health part of vows that we take. And there are many ways to be sexually fulfilled.... I would hope that sexual incompatability would have been recognized and dealt with at the beginning of a relationship.

Then, again, sex is much more than a physical experience for me.

[Kobi]

When I started this thread, I was just curious how people view fidelity and how people have reacted to infidelity in their own lives.

It has been interesting to see the twists and turns that have occured as people insert their own scripts into the flow. There has been a celebrity focus, a sexes focus, a physical attractiveness focus, a sex focus, a violence focus, a few things I havent yet grasped focus, and even some personal feelings and experience focus!

This has kind of reinforced for me, how one needs to choose ones words carefully to minimize misinterpretation. Even then, there is no guarantee that what you meant is what will be heard or focused on.

It is a fascinating process to watch. And gives insights into how misunderstanding occur.

Having said this, I still want to know why Dylan wants to push Lance Armstrong off his bike.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Kobi

When I started this thread, I was just curious how people view fidelity and how people have reacted to infidelity in their own lives.

It has been interesting to see the twists and turns that have occured as people insert their own scripts into the flow. There has been a celebrity focus, a sexes focus, a physical attractiveness focus, a sex focus, a violence focus, a few things I havent yet grasped focus, and even some personal feelings and experience focus!

This has kind of reinforced for me, how one needs to choose ones words carefully to minimize misinterpretation. Even then, there is no guarantee that what you meant is what will be heard or focused on.

It is a fascinating process to watch. And gives insights into how misunderstanding occur.

Having said this, I still want to know why Dylan wants to push Lance Armstrong off his bike.

You left out Wolverine and the hooker.

This thread has been interesting, and I knew EXACTLY what you meant, but then another person posted, and another and another and now here we are.

[AtLast]

Kobi-

This is a grand community of diverse thinking! Thanks for the thread.

Originally Posted by Kobi

When I started this thread, I was just curious how people view fidelity and how people have reacted to infidelity in their own lives.

It has been interesting to see the twists and turns that have occured as people insert their own scripts into the flow. There has been a celebrity focus, a sexes focus, a physical attractiveness focus, a sex focus, a violence focus, a few things I havent yet grasped focus, and even some personal feelings and experience focus!

This has kind of reinforced for me, how one needs to choose ones words carefully to minimize misinterpretation. Even then, there is no guarantee that what you meant is what will be heard or focused on.

It is a fascinating process to watch. And gives insights into how misunderstanding occur.

Having said this, I still want to know why Dylan wants to push Lance Armstrong off his bike.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I'm too lazy to go find the Tiger Woods thread again, but I certainly got a good chuckle over Tiger's announcement that he will be rejoining the PGA tour to play in the Masters. I should have set my egg timer on that one. That is what his public apology was about, lol.

Whether Sandra Bullock is nice or not nice, what does that have to do with whether or not she deserves to be cheated on or whether anyone should feel badly for her? What does it matter if someone is considered good looking or "plain?" No one deserves to be cheated on.

If Poor Ol' Sandy had cheated on Jesse, I highly highly doubt ANYONE would be defending Jesse and asking "OMG! How could Sandy do such a thing...she's not a REAL woman. Jesse's got sooooooo much going for him. He's hot, he's brilliant, he's a strong man blah blah blah. Sandy just needs to 'woman up', because blah blah blah"

No one would be sending Jesse a Huggie Basket

But I'd bet money on what WOULD happen.

Jesse would still be made out to be a dick who had treated Sandy badly, and DROVE her to cheat. Jesse would have driven ApplePieSandy into the arms of another man.

When a man cheats on a 'beautiful woman' (and looks are just about all a woman's whole character is based on in this country. If she's pretty, well then "she's got a million [nameless] things going for her and she's brilliant" everyone said the same thing about that Hurley chick when Hughy cheated...oh, and where's her career today?), ohhhhhh my god the whole world crashes down, and people have to ask, "How could he cheat on Sandy/Elizabeth Hurley/whothefuckever" Ahhhhhh, but when a woman cheats on her husband, we either don't hear about it at all, because it's not big news, OR (usually), the man drove her to cheat by being such a big dick. Or there were some (excusable) extenuating circumstances (Christie Brinkley, anyone?)


Double Standard,
Dylan

[Dylan]

It's those damned sheeple bracelets that make me wanna push Lance off his bike

Oh, and he dated that whiner, and all of Austin had to hear about the star couple 24/7


Can't Stand Him, And I Don't Care If He's Shooting Steroids,
Dylan

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Dylan

It's those damned sheeple bracelets that make me wanna push Lance off his bike

Oh, and he dated that whiner, and all of Austin had to hear about the star couple 24/7


Can't Stand Him, And I Don't Care If He's Shooting Steroids,
Dylan

Yeah. Supporting Cancer Patients/Research is super fucking annoying. Live Strong, but live Quietly I always say.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Yeah. Supporting Cancer Patients/Research is super fucking annoying. Live Strong, but live Quietly I always say.

HA! Nice try.

I'm all for supporting causes. I'm not down with donning a stupid piece of plastic to show what a mindless follower I am, just cuz Lance Armstrong asked me to and tossed out a catchy slogan he didn't even coin. It's the mark of sheeple. And then, of course, we have to have the different color swatches of plastic now, because every other organization had to follow suit (like what? sheeple) to get their piece of the sheeple pie too.

I feel the same about those stupid ribbons all over everyone's bumpers right now.


Nice Try On The Guilt Trip Though,
Dylan

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Dylan

HA! Nice try.

I'm all for supporting causes. I'm not down with donning a stupid piece of plastic to show what a mindless follower I am, just cuz Lance Armstrong asked me to and tossed out a catchy slogan he didn't even coin. It's the mark of sheeple. And then, of course, we have to have the different color swatches of plastic now, because every other organization had to follow suit (like what? sheeple) to get their piece of the sheeple pie too.

I feel the same about those stupid ribbons all over everyone's bumpers right now.


Nice Try On The Guilt Trip Though,
Dylan

I think Pink Ribbons for Breast Cancer and the Live Strong bracelets raise awareness. Sales of those items go towards research.

Most people know at least one person affected by some sort of cancer, which makes it personal.

So I disagree with you that it is *sheeple mentality* to participate in such awareness raising campaigns. For the most part, I think it's the opposite and quite personal.

No Guilt Trip,

Done derailing

[UofMfan]

I agree, to me it is very personal. And to have to read the very dismissal of the things that, yes even if corny and bothersome to people, have contributed to savings millions of lives, makes me a little angry.

How did we get from infidelity to this?

PS: I met Sandra Bullock in person, and she is even nicer than she appears on the screen. My opinion of course, we are all entitled to have one.

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I think Pink Ribbons for Breast Cancer and the Live Strong bracelets raise awareness. Sales of those items go towards research.

Most people know at least one person affected by some sort of cancer, which makes it personal.

So I disagree with you that it is *sheeple mentality* to participate in such awareness raising campaigns. For the most part, I think it's the opposite and quite personal.

No Guilt Trip,

Done derailing

[BullDog]

Dylan, I don't agree with you about the double standard. If anything women are held to a much higher standard, otherwise they are deemed to be a "slut" or worse. Oh and women do pay a very high price when they are thought to be cheating- often with their lives. See Martina's posts.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Dylan

If Poor Ol' Sandy had cheated on Jesse, I highly highly doubt ANYONE would be defending Jesse and asking "OMG! How could Sandy do such a thing...she's not a REAL woman. Jesse's got sooooooo much going for him. He's hot, he's brilliant, he's a strong man blah blah blah. Sandy just needs to 'woman up', because blah blah blah"

No one would be sending Jesse a Huggie Basket

But I'd bet money on what WOULD happen.

Jesse would still be made out to be a dick who had treated Sandy badly, and DROVE her to cheat. Jesse would have driven ApplePieSandy into the arms of another man.

When a man cheats on a 'beautiful woman' (and looks are just about all a woman's whole character is based on in this country. If she's pretty, well then "she's got a million [nameless] things going for her and she's brilliant" everyone said the same thing about that Hurley chick when Hughy cheated...oh, and where's her career today?), ohhhhhh my god the whole world crashes down, and people have to ask, "How could he cheat on Sandy/Elizabeth Hurley/whothefuckever" Ahhhhhh, but when a woman cheats on her husband, we either don't hear about it at all, because it's not big news, OR (usually), the man drove her to cheat by being such a big dick. Or there were some (excusable) extenuating circumstances (Christie Brinkley, anyone?)


Double Standard,
Dylan

Everyone thought Leanne Rhymes was a double douche for cheating on her hubby with a married man. Nobody sent her a huggy basket.

Cheating is shitty. Regardless of gender, and I think normally men get more of a pass on it than women do.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Everyone thought Leanne Rhymes was a double douche for cheating on her hubby with a married man. Nobody sent her a huggy basket.

Cheating is shitty. Regardless of gender, and I think normally men get more of a pass on it than women do.

I didn't even hear about this.

But I couldn't turn on the radio or television without hearing about Sandy and Tiger or Hughy

Were there text messages? Were there 'reports' of *hundreds* of men she'd cheated with? Were people suggesting she step out of her career and give up singing? Were people commenting when she put out another record (like, "Pfffft, of course she wouldn't give up her entire career for being a philanderer...told ya' so"...like they are with Tiger?)

Were her emails being posted all over the news and selling for big bucks?


Dylan

[BullDog]

Women are held to much higher standards when it comes to sexuality and "morality." I can't believe anyone would even question this. It's so glaringly obvious.

Boys will be boys- how many times have we heard that?

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Women are held to much higher standards when it comes to sexuality and "morality." I can't believe anyone would even question this. It's so glaringly obvious.

Boys will be boys- how many times have we heard that?

Who was questioning the sexuality and morality of women?

There is a much bigger double standard when women cheat on their husbands, and especially celebrity women.

I mean, you're here giving Tiger a hard time because he's not going to give up his career. We even had a Tiger Woods thread to discuss the whole (private) matter. Yet, I don't remember a thread about the LeAnn incident. Had there been a thread, I might have even known that she'd cheated (although, I still wouldn't have cared). When LeAnn cheated were you giving her the same gruff about her career? Did you roll your eyes when her next CD came out?

Was the husband hot? So hot he didn't deserve to be cheated on (because when it comes to celebrity cheating, apparently looks are the final deciding factor in whether or not someone 'deserved' to be cheated on)? Were there a bunch of outsiders stepping up to say how they'd have "treated him right" because he's so hot and brilliant and couldn't possibly ever do anything mean-spirited?

And to tie this back to Queerdom, because I could give a good rip about straight celebrities cheating on one another...we can see these exact same attitudes played out in ButchFemmeDom...even including the same commentary.

Butch cheats: oh, how could anyone cheat on SoAndSoFemme? She's got so much going for her. I wouldn't do that (even though I don't know her from Adam or Eve). ThatButch is such a dick. SoAndSoFemme is so hot. ThatButch needs to move out and blahblahblah

Femme cheats: Wow, ThatButch must be such a dick. I wonder what ThatButch did to deserve that.

I have yet to hear that either one should give up their careers though.


Have To Get Offline Soon,
Dylan

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Who was questioning the sexuality and morality of women?

There is a much bigger double standard when women cheat on their husbands, and especially celebrity women.

I mean, you're here giving Tiger a hard time because he's not going to give up his career. We even had a Tiger Woods thread to discuss the whole (private) matter. Yet, I don't remember a thread about the LeAnn incident. Had there been a thread, I might have even known that she'd cheated (although, I still wouldn't have cared). When LeAnn cheated were you giving her the same gruff about her career? Did you roll your eyes when her next CD came out?

Was the husband hot? So hot he didn't deserve to be cheated on (because when it comes to celebrity cheating, apparently looks are the final deciding factor in whether or not someone 'deserved' to be cheated on)? Were there a bunch of outsiders stepping up to say how they'd have "treated him right" because he's so hot and brilliant and couldn't possibly ever do anything mean-spirited?

And to tie this back to Queerdom, because I could give a good rip about straight celebrities cheating on one another...we can see these exact same attitudes played out in ButchFemmeDom...even including the same commentary.

Butch cheats: oh, how could anyone cheat on SoAndSoFemme? She's got so much going for her. I wouldn't do that (even though I don't know her from Adam or Eve). ThatButch is such a dick. SoAndSoFemme is so hot. ThatButch needs to move out and blahblahblah

Femme cheats: Wow, ThatButch must be such a dick. I wonder what ThatButch did to deserve that.

I have yet to hear that either one should give up their careers though.


Have To Get Offline Soon,
Dylan

I never gave Tiger a hard time on cheating. His press conference was an apology to his sponsors and a way for him to participate in this year's major tournaments. I said that then, and I said that now. I think he's a slime for lying and cheating (if he did cheat- since I don't know what he and his wife may or may not have agreed upon). I would think his wife was a slime if she cheated on him. I would think my next door neighbor was a slime if she cheated on whomever.

I missed the LeAnn incident. I'm not a big country music fan and don't watch tv, so I miss most of the celeb gossip.

I don't see the double standard within butch femme circles either. A lot of times a butch femme couple is two women, btw or two females,- one is butch and one is femme (not always of course)- so why would straight man/woman "standards" even apply. Anyway, I don't think cheating is viewed too kindly in butch femme circles whether it's a femme, butch, FTM or other gendered person doing it. I don't see the outcry being much different than within lesbian circles (where it is two women).