OCCUPY WALL STREET

[SoNotHer]

"I wrote back suggesting that I am a happy dude, and its not Anger — its closer to an ineffable sadness that comes once you realize you have lost something dear. I am old enough to have grown up when this nation was a Democracy, but that era has passed. We now live in a nation no longer run by the citizens — it is a Corporatocracy — and that makes me sadder than angry ..."

Great piece, Kannon. Thank you for posting it.

Originally Posted by kannon

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/11...rate-monarchy/

[Slater]

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst...r/?page=entire

Norm Stamper certainly made mistakes as Chief of Police in Seattle, but he was willing to learn from them. I think he offers a few important insights in the article linked above:

1) That although the 1999 "Battle in Seattle" should have served as a primer of what NOT to do for law enforcement agencies, the opposite has happened. It has ushered in an era of increased militarization of law enforcement. He writes: "The paramilitary bureaucracy and the culture it engenders—a black-and-white world in which police unions serve above all to protect the brotherhood—is worse today than it was in the 1990s. Such agencies inevitably view protesters as the enemy."
2) That militaristic policing causes violence. "My support for a militaristic solution caused all hell to break loose," Stamper says. He's right. It did.
3) That 9/11, or more specifically the government's heavy-handed response and exploitation of public fears, has fueled the current crisis in law enforcement. "[T]he federal government began providing military equipment and training even to some of the smallest rural departments ... Everyday policing is characterized by a SWAT mentality, every other 911 call a military mission."

The whole article is worth a read. One thing I have been thinking about that he didn't touch on is the way that the proliferation of non-lethal (or really, less-lethal) weapons has made police forces considerably more aggressive and considerably less concerned about consequences, even in this day when almost everything is captured on video. These tools that were supposed to allow officers to defend themselves without killing people have instead become offensive weapons deployed to secure compliance (or, it seems, sometimes just as a show of dominance) rather than to secure the officer's safety.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Slater

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst...r/?page=entire

Norm Stamper certainly made mistakes as Chief of Police in Seattle, but he was willing to learn from them. I think he offers a few important insights in the article linked above:

1) That although the 1999 "Battle in Seattle" should have served as a primer of what NOT to do for law enforcement agencies, the opposite has happened. It has ushered in an era of increased militarization of law enforcement. He writes: "The paramilitary bureaucracy and the culture it engenders—a black-and-white world in which police unions serve above all to protect the brotherhood—is worse today than it was in the 1990s. Such agencies inevitably view protesters as the enemy."
2) That militaristic policing causes violence. "My support for a militaristic solution caused all hell to break loose," Stamper says. He's right. It did.
3) That 9/11, or more specifically the government's heavy-handed response and exploitation of public fears, has fueled the current crisis in law enforcement. "[T]he federal government began providing military equipment and training even to some of the smallest rural departments ... Everyday policing is characterized by a SWAT mentality, every other 911 call a military mission."

The whole article is worth a read. One thing I have been thinking about that he didn't touch on is the way that the proliferation of non-lethal (or really, less-lethal) weapons has made police forces considerably more aggressive and considerably less concerned about consequences, even in this day when almost everything is captured on video. These tools that were supposed to allow officers to defend themselves without killing people have instead become offensive weapons deployed to secure compliance (or, it seems, sometimes just as a show of dominance) rather than to secure the officer's safety.

Yes, what you say above (I bolded and underlined) seems so true to me. This whole thing about non-lethality of these kinds of weapons (and they are weapons) has given license to using them in situations not calling for them at all- and the public has accepted this. There is new information that the manufacturers of stun-guns like Tasers (a brand name) not giving the full story about how they can kill a person. They have not really given police department the real data!! So, departments have been developing crowd control and even perp apprehension tactics based upon faulty information. Then there is the fact that some (and it is a very small number) of police have aggressive personality traits that point to the fact that they shouldn't even be in law enforcement.

I wonder too- about all the TV cop shows and the displays of force used by characters that we see continually. How has that influenced the public about these tactics? I have heard from cops that they would be fired on the spot for a lot of the things TV cop heros do.

This may sound hoaky, but, I do respect police and I think they have a very difficult job. I support whatever equipment and training they receive for their own protection. However, something is really wrong here with the lack of training about differences in crowds like citizens exercising protest in a non-violent manner and that is not trying to stick it to cops.

So many of the incidences over the last couple of months just seem like waiting out dispersal by police would have been the best thing. Yes, they need to make certain emergency routes are open, but why don't they send in officers to "talk" through what is needed to keep people safe first- kind of like officers trained in negotiation with hostage situations. I might be very naive here, but, it just seems like the entire police crowd control of un-armed citizens needs to be overhauled and updated. And these kinds of weapons have influenced more responses of a first-aggressive nature based upon the false premise of these weapons are not harmful.

Could be talking up my own rear- I do not have any law enforcement expertise at all.

I think with what happened at UCD and has gone viral may help in law enforcement having to re-evaluate these tactics and make a lot of changes.

[ruby_woo]

Honestly, I've been wondering how much of the violence is due to simple disdain for the protestors? My uncle has been cop for about 20 years, and he's been going on lately about how back his day he was too busy focusing on how he could contribute to society and how he would support himself and how it never crossed his mind that anyone owed him anything blahblahblah. Then all his cop buddies chime in and agree.

And he's not even one of the aggressive jerk cops. He rescues kittens.

I'm not trying to present "anecdata" in an argument or anything, but it's been hard for me to ignore what's right in front of me. Like AtLast, I could be talking up my own rear.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by ruby_woo

Honestly, I've been wondering how much of the violence is due to simple disdain for the protestors?

So when cops have disdain for someone they can just spray them in the face with pepper spray? Even when they are just standing there doing nothing, like those women at Occupy Wall St caught on camera being sprayed in the face by a white shirt for no discernible reason. You can open their mouth and spray pepper spray down their throat if you have disdain for them. Or you shoot them with rubber bullets when they are asking you if they are okay or too close if you have disdain for them. Or if the cops have disdain they can beat the crap out of a transperson or a queer. If cops have disdain they can act as they please, is that the idea? Too bad they don’t have some disdain for child molesters and rapists.

[ruby_woo]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

So when cops have disdain for someone they can just spray them in the face with pepper spray? Even when they are just standing there doing nothing, like those women at Occupy Wall St caught on camera being sprayed in the face by a white shirt for no discernible reason. You can open their mouth and spray pepper spray down their throat if you have disdain for them. Or you shoot them with rubber bullets when they are asking you if they are okay or too close if you have disdain for them. Or if the cops have disdain they can beat the crap out of a transperson or a queer. If cops have disdain they can act as they please, is that the idea? Too bad they don’t have some disdain for child molesters and rapists.

I'm not saying I think it's acceptable at all, definitely not was I was trying to imply...

But could lack of training + disdain for the group in front of you lead to making jerk decisions? Maybe.

In Slater's post (sorry, I don't know how to double quote), he mentioned Norm Stamper saying "The paramilitary bureaucracy and the culture it engenders—a black-and-white world in which police unions serve above all to protect the brotherhood—is worse today than it was in the 1990s. Such agencies inevitably view protesters as the enemy."

[SoNotHer]

I appreciate your voice, Ruby Woo, and I am really grateful to hear about your uncle. I talk with the police in my neighborhood, and I have worked with some very compassionate police on the issue of prostitution.

I think we have to start to address perceptions. I think we have to talk about why protestors are perceived as malcontents with no real point or cause and how that view gets used. Perhaps some are, or perhaps some are the like the people I've stood with who have lost homes, have no healthcare, have lost all of their personal savings in a bad 401K, an underwater mortgage or a medical bankruptcy.

Personally, I find the desire to protest and speak up for a more equal and just society not only welcome but brave and one of the most hopeful things I have seen in my voting lifetime.

But most of all, I think we have to allow people to exercise their right to disagree and to even protest without fear of violence. Without these, I think we're looking at something other than a democracy.

Originally Posted by ruby_woo

Honestly, I've been wondering how much of the violence is due to simple disdain for the protestors? My uncle has been cop for about 20 years, and he's been going on lately about how back his day he was too busy focusing on how he could contribute to society and how he would support himself and how it never crossed his mind that anyone owed him anything blahblahblah. Then all his cop buddies chime in and agree.

And he's not even one of the aggressive jerk cops. He rescues kittens.

I'm not trying to present "anecdata" in an argument or anything, but it's been hard for me to ignore what's right in front of me. Like AtLast, I could be talking up my own rear.

[Corkey]

http://www.fictionews.com/news/105/B...ews-story.html

Good news for UC Davis students.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Corkey

http://www.fictionews.com/news/105/B...ews-story.html

Good news for UC Davis students.

Sorry all looks bogus.

[Toughy]

When individual police officers assault peaceful citizens with chemical or other 'non-lethal' weapons they should be arrested for assault at a minimum...

If individual police officers get away with this......a police state follows...

Seattle woman miscarries after police assault her despite her yelling she is pregnant and wants to leave....

2 Iraq war veterans are hospitalized due to police assault in Oakland

the press says the Occupy folks make it unsafe and the Chancellor of UC Davis is AFRAID of her students....

Bush the shrub wins....be damn afraid .....

[Diavolo]

It's interesting. I'm watching Nixon right now. While Oliver Stone takes way too many liberties, the footage of real protesters and the rhetoric of the government is real. And it hasn't changed in 40 years. It reminds me of what we are hearing from Faux News right now. And the Nuevo Hippies are right now too. Or are they Neo Hippies?

[ruffryder]

There is a correct way to use pepper spray and tasers. People authorized to do so do go through training for this. They also are told when to use it and to what aggression. With UC Davis the question is were the students ready to be forceful and not comply? We do know they were asked to leave. Some law enforcement people debating this say the officers should have proceeded to arrest them first and if they did not comply then give the warning to comply or be sprayed. For some reason these officers felt threatened? .. or felt the need to just spray.. which is where the debate comes up and why they did this. My guess was because the students were asked to leave, was it justified? I say no. I guess we will find out. I definitely think this case will determine how pepper spray and force is proceeded with in the future.

[Heart]

RAISE OUR VOICES! Women's OWS Action, Nov 25th, 1PM, Foley Square, NYC

Everyday around the world women-identified persons survive different forms of violence. Physical violence leaves us with traumatic scars. Economic violence causes us to struggle to feed our families. Sexual violence in our homes and on our streets causes us to feel shame. Political violence silences the power of our voices to make decisions in society. Military violence divides nations of women who want peace.

We say no more! We want respect, equity, compassion, peace, security and healing for ourselves, our children, our communities and our world.


Wall Street is violence against women. Corporations get nearly 70% of their profit from women workers who earn $2 a day. In the U.S., women make as low as $0.52 for every dollar a man makes. Women of color are 70% of the global poor. More than 15 million of our children live in poverty in the U.S., the richest nation in the world. Women remain strong! We raise our voices to promote a fair and just economic system!

Women’s bodies & voices are under attack. Individuals disrespect our bodies with street harassment, rape, and other forms of physical & sexual violence. 1 in 6 American women has been a victim of attempted or completed rape. The courts, cops and lawyers continue to blame us for this violence. Media corporations make billions with music and films that disgrace our bodies, minds and spirits. And now, state governments in the U.S. have created restrictions on voting which shut out the voices of women of color at the polls. Women remain strong! We proclaim our right to peace, legal justice, respectful images and voting access!



We are not cheap labor, sexual objects or people to be disregarded!

We use the strength of our voices to demand respect, justice, peace, fairness, voting rights, wealth and a living wage!

***trans, gender-varient women are welcome & encouraged to attend***

(please share far & wide!)

Full Declaration: http://bit.ly/sZ985S
Facebook Invite: http://on.fb.me/sHzun8


Organized by CLAW (Clear Action by/for Women) Coalition:

AF3IRM

http://af3irm.org



A.N.S.W.E.R

http://www.answercoalition.org



Black Women's Blueprint

http://www.blackwomensblueprint.org



SisterSong NYC & Trust Black Women
http://bit.ly/mnxD7J



Feminism Now Podcast

feminism-now.com



Party for Socialism & Liberation

http://www.pslweb.org

[persiphone]

Occupy protestors have made direct contact with Obama in NH and slipped him a note....

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/o...201229558.html

[SoNotHer]

Originally Posted by persiphone

Occupy protestors have made direct contact with Obama in NH and slipped him a note....

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/o...201229558.html

[greeneyedgrrl]

ok... so obviously OWS is a hot topic. i posted a link on another page about the davis pepper spray incident. and my cousin who is a cop responded, along with her mom, they fully back wall street and the cops, not a surprise, but she gave me a penal code to justify the police action: PC 407

CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE

· 407 PC Unlawful assembly defined.
Whenever two or more persons assemble
together to do an unlawful act, or do a lawful
act in a violent, boisterous or tumultuous
manner, such assembly is an unlawful assembly.


the link below explains the criteria for conviction of this offense:

http://www.justia.com/criminal/docs/...2600/2686.html

after reading it... my thinking is that it still wasn't justified from what i saw because it didn't appear to be a riot, and there didn't appear to be malicious intent or intent to break the law. because my cousin is so adamantly defending the action, (i really don't know the motivation, because she refused to answer any of my questions, so i can only speculate) i'm wondering if the cops are perceiving the demonstrations as riots, illegal activity, or if it's her more conservative (and privileged) viewpoint that she's perceiving it this way, or an attempt to stick together? it sounds like other people on this thread have had similar experiences... thoughts?

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

ok... so obviously OWS is a hot topic. i posted a link on another page about the davis pepper spray incident. and my cousin who is a cop responded, along with her mom, they fully back wall street and the cops, not a surprise, but she gave me a penal code to justify the police action: PC 407

CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE

· 407 PC Unlawful assembly defined.
Whenever two or more persons assemble
together to do an unlawful act, or do a lawful
act in a violent, boisterous or tumultuous
manner, such assembly is an unlawful assembly.


the link below explains the criteria for conviction of this offense:

http://www.justia.com/criminal/docs/...2600/2686.html

after reading it... my thinking is that it still wasn't justified from what i saw because it didn't appear to be a riot, and there didn't appear to be malicious intent or intent to break the law. because my cousin is so adamantly defending the action, (i really don't know the motivation, because she refused to answer any of my questions, so i can only speculate) i'm wondering if the cops are perceiving the demonstrations as riots, illegal activity, or if it's her more conservative (and privileged) viewpoint that she's perceiving it this way, or an attempt to stick together? it sounds like other people on this thread have had similar experiences... thoughts?

I think the cops clearly mistake peaceful protestors with rioters. How they make that connection in their minds is just baffling to me. Someone staging a sit in, someone standing on a side walk or in a park with a sign, someone banging a drum and chanting is not a threat to anyone. Pepper spray is one of many non-lethal weapons that are supposed to be an alternative to using lethal force (guns for instance). But instead of using pepper spray as an alternative to using lethal force, the cops use it as a way to use force in situations that don't call for any type of force - which is totally inappropriate imho.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

I think the cops clearly mistake peaceful protestors with rioters. How they make that connection in their minds is just baffling to me. Someone staging a sit in, someone standing on a side walk or in a park with a sign, someone banging a drum and chanting is not a threat to anyone. Pepper spray is one of many non-lethal weapons that are supposed to be an alternative to using lethal force (guns for instance). But instead of using pepper spray as an alternative to using lethal force, the cops use it as a way to use force in situations that don't call for any type of force - which is totally inappropriate imho.

thank you az. it is so hard for me... to hear my cousin spouting such hatred for people she has never met. it just baffles me how easily we (humans) can be duped into seeing each other as the enemy.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

thank you az. it is so hard for me... to hear my cousin spouting such hatred for people she has never met. it just baffles me how easily we (humans) can be duped into seeing each other as the enemy.

You can call me Drew

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

You can call me Drew

thank you Drew!