Pagan

Linus · 11-22-2009, 08:19 AM

Hey everyone. I hope it's ok to ask this question but I was curious, for those who have kids, what did you do for winter celebration and how did you address the Santa for younger kids? K and I were discussing this and how we would address winter holidays, particularly with younger kids. (Although K is Atheist and I'm buddhist we both agreed that it would be fun and an important family time with the kids).

Bit · 11-22-2009, 11:01 AM

Hi Penny, welcome! It's nice to meet you! Please feel free to comment or ask questions anytime!

Linus, that's a great question! I don't have kids--maybe a couple others will talk about that--but I can tell you that Santa is the strongest memory we have of an indigenous Northern Shaman. Red, black, and white are the colors of the Goddess in all the most ancient cultures, because they are the colors of Life itself. In those far northern cultures, reindeer (caribou, on this side of the pond)were sacred, the givers of life.

These days Shamans talk about the drumbeat being the "horse" they ride to do their work, but back in the mists of time, horses were unknown to the Northern peoples; their Shamans rode the flying reindeer in the drumbeat.

Evidently there was a strong tradition of the Shaman visiting villages at Midwinter, telling stories, singing songs, wrapped in his sacred furs and bringing his sacred reindeer with him. I don't know if gifts were part of the celebrations, but certainly they have been part of many other cultures' Midwinter feasts, so they might have been---and the tie between Santa and gifts DOES go back several hundred years if not a thousand, so who knows? Maybe that was an integral part of "Scandiwhovian" Midwinters also. It might also very well be that the Shamans were also traders, bringing trade goods to the villages at Midwinter, and that the "gift" tradition is a dim memory of that.

Hope this gives you a starting place!

JustLovelyJenn · 11-22-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus

Hey everyone. I hope it's ok to ask this question but I was curious, for those who have kids, what did you do for winter celebration and how did you address the Santa for younger kids? K and I were discussing this and how we would address winter holidays, particularly with younger kids. (Although K is Atheist and I'm buddhist we both agreed that it would be fun and an important family time with the kids).

My family situation is so interesting for religious holidays. We live with my parents (who are Mormon) and my beliefs are not really... tolerated in the home. The compromise I have made is one of "don't ask, don't tell". I have an alter set up in my space but my mother just lets herself assume its an end table of knickknacks. I celebrate some of my traditions for holidays mixed in with theirs, and my children are taught that Christmas (or Yule, or Hanukkah, or Kwanzaa, or whatever someone calls the holiday) is about giving, and appreciating those around us and all they do for us. That it (and Santa) are more of a feeling. Santa is most assuredly real, and as long as long as there are people in the world who give of themselves with complete selflessness, he will never die. I also tell them that each of them can be a Santa to someone else. That Santa can't survive unless we all do a little bit of the work... Its part of Santa's Magic. Santa exists because of people who give like Santa would give.

Bit · 11-22-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustLovelyJenn

That Santa can't survive unless we all do a little bit of the work... Its part of Santa's Magic. Santa exists because of people who give like Santa would give.

I like that very much! Thank you for sharing it, Jenn!

My sympathies on having to live stealth. I had to do so for five years and oh my, what a strain that was... more of a strain than I realized. I have a letter I wrote about Stealth Paganism around here somewhere; after I finish

I'll find it and post it.

Bit · 11-22-2009, 11:24 PM

Well, lol, no laundry--friends showed up. It was a happiness, since my freezer and fridge were overstuffed. I always feel like I have to share at Thanksgiving, yanno? It makes me feel "right" inside.

Oh hey--twas Raven and I have a report on Megosh! We still can't tell if this is a true recovery or if it's the equivalent of a cancer patient's last rally before they die, BUT Megosh is more alert, willing to move around the apartment, and she's eating and drinking more and more... plus peeing more and more, but hey... Raven will deal with it if it means she has time with Megosh!

Anyhow, I came back online to post that letter about Stealth Paganism, so that'll be next. I'm hoping it doesn't break the character limit! I'm known for that...

Bit · 11-22-2009, 11:39 PM

We all find situations where we are just not able to be out as Pagans or Witches. Sometimes it's uncomfortable. Sometimes it would affect our children's school situation. Sometimes it could cost us a job. Sometimes we live with people of other faiths, or of no faith, and they're threatened.

Does this mean we have to deny ourselves and our spirituality, allow the situation to stifle our growth? No, not at all. It means we have the opportunity to truly examine what it is that makes us Pagan, what it is that makes us a Witch. It means we are gifted with a chance to get down to basics and to strengthen some of our abilities that might not otherwise get much attention.

When we're in the broom closet and living stealth, what gets emphasized is our attitude. We have certain choices... for instance, our Yule tree might look just like everyone else's Yule tree, right down to the five-pointed star on top... it can be as Pagan as we wish to make it, full of natural decorations including that classic animal companion of northern Shamans, the reindeer, and no one will know that it is Pagan. It will just fit right in.

Our holiday or Yule cards can talk about "the Season" and never have to say the word "Christmas."

Our Samhain/Halloween decorations can be as kitschy as anything you'd find at a dollar store, or they can be all natural, or they can incorporate the Mexican Day of the Dead decorations; they will all fit right in. Halloween is All Hallow's Eve (hallows means saints), and November 1st is All Saints' Day... in Mexico they call All Saints' Day the Day of the Dead--but it's all the same holiday at the root of it, concerned with ghosts and families. Day of the Dead is not focused on long-gone saints, btw, but on one's family members who have died. Unlike the scare-off-the-spirits approach of modern Halloween, Day of the Dead provides families with a way to honor and welcome their ancestors--but both holidays acknowledge the thinning of the veil between the worlds, that time when spirits are close.

Thanksgiving is traditionally celebrated in September in Europe and they call it Harvest Home, but we're a retail nation now (rather than a farming nation) and the harvest food is on sale in November here... it is still, at the root of it, one of the oldest Pagan impulses we have: to celebrate the harvest and give our thanks.

Easter is what remains of the Germanic Eostara celebrations; she was the Goddess of Spring and her symbols were the pig, the rabbit, and the egg... so yanno, ham for Easter dinner and the Easter Bunny bringing eggs, this is again a very old Pagan celebration. The Eastern European tradition of pysanky, or finely decorated eggs, makes use of very old Pagan symbols... again, a stealth way to incorporate Paganism without notice.

The end of April/first of May--Beltane--is traditionally a time to celebrate the beginning of summer, and although the custom of giving May baskets full of flowers has fallen by the wayside, we can still celebrate with bouquets of flowers for the house or with a good day's work in the garden.

Summer Solstice and Winter Solstice, Spring and Autumn Equinoxes, can all be marked and even celebrated as astronomy. When you think about it, that's pretty much what the early Pagans did anyhow.

Memorial Day is the US's answer to Day of the Dead, and provides us with another time to honor our Ancestors, this time with flowers rather than pumpkins.

The Fourth of July is not Pagan... but yanno, food and firecrackers... it oughta be! lol!

We can participate in these same events everyone else does, and yet make them more meaningful to us by privately acknowledging the ways they fit into our Paganism.

When we live in the Broom Closet, we do have to be cautious; maybe not as careful as our ancestors did in the Burning Times (from the 1400s to the 1800s, generally, especially in Europe), but still, we have a lot at stake and it pays to use discretion. We don't ever need to tell anyone what we are.

There is an old philosophy that says there are four requirements for being a Witch: To Know, To Will, To Dare, and To Keep Silent. This came out of the Burning Times, when speaking about Witchcraft was punished by death, and over the centuries it has built up a strong reservoir of energy. We can keep silent about who we are and what we do, and we will be joining in with our ancestors in doing so. Have you noticed that you can build up lots of energy around something you're keeping secret, but once you talk about it, all the energy fizzles away? We can make this same principle work for us in the Broom Closet. By choosing not to speak about our Paganism, we can keep our everyday energy contained the same way we would in a working Circle, and gradually get used to working with larger and larger amounts of energy as it builds up.

One of the key ways to stay stealth in the Broom Closet is to find the things that carry the same names as they do in the larger culture around us. For instance, many people grow up believing that "prayer" is something specific, that one is only praying if one is reciting specific words that other people wrote, but there is another, broader definition that says prayer is talking to God. And what are we doing when we do a spell, a working, a Circle, or when we send energy, but talking to God/Goddess/All That Is?

There are many Pagan gods. One can fit in nicely by talking about God........ and just not specifying which one.

Here is where it pays to be eclectic, as well... there is a very old saying in Islam, "All Gods are one God, and Allah is His Name." There is a very old tradition in Wicca that calls the Goddess the Lady of Ten Thousand Names. There is the known history of Paganism that equates various gods and goddesses in different cultures--for instance, Diana/Artemis, or Thor/Ares/Mars. If we take what is similar from these ideas and give it a Pagan twist, we have the statement that "all gods are one god--and the name doesn't matter." *cheeky grin*

Practical matters... how can we have a Pagan altar when we are living completely stealth? Nearly everyone has a dressertop or countertop, a windowsill or bookshelf that could use a little... well, you know.... ornamenting. An interesting rock or crystal gives us Earth. A fresh flower in a vase or a seashell gives us Water. A candle gives us Fire. An incense burner or a pretty feather gives us Air. A living
plant combines Earth and Water. A clear piece of glass gives us Fire and Air. A mirror gives us the Goddess or the God. A picture of our Totem animal calls them in.

No one ever has to know this is a Pagan altar. In quiet moments, we can allow its simple peace to seep into our souls, grounding us and giving us an unobtrusive focus for our prayers and energy work.

We can keep our Book of Shadows (if we choose to have one) on a computer--on a CD or a Flash drive. We can call it a journal--for what is more intimate to the workings of our souls than our own personal book of spirituality?

We can develop our talents at writing poetry, singing, making art--these are especially appropriate in Celtic Wicca and Shamanism.

We can become people of Nature, decorate with a natural theme, collect rocks, feathers, sticks, seashells, or other natural objects.

We can watch the weather, keep a cloud journal, notice the temperatures and the path of the jet stream, chart the rain and snow or the varying speeds of the wind.

We can wear jewelry made of stones and crystals, seashells, wood, bone.

There are so many things we can do. What ways have you found to fit in, to pass unnoticed while still honoring your Paganism?

Bright Blessings to us all!
Cath

Bit · 11-23-2009, 02:11 PM

Here's a link to a new children's book.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Growing-Up-Pagan-Workbook-Families/dp/0764331434"]Amazon.com: Growing Up Pagan: A Workbook for Wiccan Families (9780764331435): Raine Hill, Gillian M. Pearce: Books[/ame]

There are many children's books linked to that page, btw.

foxyshaman · 11-23-2009, 05:17 PM

Hi Linus,

I did tell my kids that Santa was not real... and then I got a call from the school, cause it made other kids cry... and then I got a call from my ex mother in law... and then I decided to take a fox approach...

Kids... Santa is an amazing magical being. Christmas is about Magic and the celebration of magic. Etc etc...

They accepted that and until they were 10 or 11 (I think) they continued to believe in Santa...

We still celebrate Christmas cause most of the family does, but we also celebrate Solstice which is to me more important.

Bit thanks for the info on shamanism, it may have been new information. I think personally the red and white of santa's uniform in the Saami traditions is in reference to Amanita Muscaria, or Fly Agaric the magic mushroom. Reindeer love it and it is one theory of flying reindeer... but only one mind you!!!

11-22-2009, 08:19 AM	#1
Linus The Planet's Technical Bubba How Do You Identify?: FTM Preferred Pronoun?: He/Him/Geek Relationship Status: Married to my forever! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 5,440 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,929 Thanked 10,727 Times in 3,172 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	Hey everyone. I hope it's ok to ask this question but I was curious, for those who have kids, what did you do for winter celebration and how did you address the Santa for younger kids? K and I were discussing this and how we would address winter holidays, particularly with younger kids. (Although K is Atheist and I'm buddhist we both agreed that it would be fun and an important family time with the kids). __________________ Personal Blog \|\| [] \|\| Cigar Blog "We become Human Doings instead of Human Beings." -- Ram Dass

11-22-2009, 11:39 PM	#6
Bit Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Stonefemme Relationship Status: married to Gryph Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 2,177 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,126 Thanked 3,770 Times in 1,264 Posts Rep Power: 10778870	Building a Vibrant Broom Closet: Stealth Paganism We all find situations where we are just not able to be out as Pagans or Witches. Sometimes it's uncomfortable. Sometimes it would affect our children's school situation. Sometimes it could cost us a job. Sometimes we live with people of other faiths, or of no faith, and they're threatened. Does this mean we have to deny ourselves and our spirituality, allow the situation to stifle our growth? No, not at all. It means we have the opportunity to truly examine what it is that makes us Pagan, what it is that makes us a Witch. It means we are gifted with a chance to get down to basics and to strengthen some of our abilities that might not otherwise get much attention. When we're in the broom closet and living stealth, what gets emphasized is our attitude. We have certain choices... for instance, our Yule tree might look just like everyone else's Yule tree, right down to the five-pointed star on top... it can be as Pagan as we wish to make it, full of natural decorations including that classic animal companion of northern Shamans, the reindeer, and no one will know that it is Pagan. It will just fit right in. Our holiday or Yule cards can talk about "the Season" and never have to say the word "Christmas." Our Samhain/Halloween decorations can be as kitschy as anything you'd find at a dollar store, or they can be all natural, or they can incorporate the Mexican Day of the Dead decorations; they will all fit right in. Halloween is All Hallow's Eve (hallows means saints), and November 1st is All Saints' Day... in Mexico they call All Saints' Day the Day of the Dead--but it's all the same holiday at the root of it, concerned with ghosts and families. Day of the Dead is not focused on long-gone saints, btw, but on one's family members who have died. Unlike the scare-off-the-spirits approach of modern Halloween, Day of the Dead provides families with a way to honor and welcome their ancestors--but both holidays acknowledge the thinning of the veil between the worlds, that time when spirits are close. Thanksgiving is traditionally celebrated in September in Europe and they call it Harvest Home, but we're a retail nation now (rather than a farming nation) and the harvest food is on sale in November here... it is still, at the root of it, one of the oldest Pagan impulses we have: to celebrate the harvest and give our thanks. Easter is what remains of the Germanic Eostara celebrations; she was the Goddess of Spring and her symbols were the pig, the rabbit, and the egg... so yanno, ham for Easter dinner and the Easter Bunny bringing eggs, this is again a very old Pagan celebration. The Eastern European tradition of pysanky, or finely decorated eggs, makes use of very old Pagan symbols... again, a stealth way to incorporate Paganism without notice. The end of April/first of May--Beltane--is traditionally a time to celebrate the beginning of summer, and although the custom of giving May baskets full of flowers has fallen by the wayside, we can still celebrate with bouquets of flowers for the house or with a good day's work in the garden. Summer Solstice and Winter Solstice, Spring and Autumn Equinoxes, can all be marked and even celebrated as astronomy. When you think about it, that's pretty much what the early Pagans did anyhow. Memorial Day is the US's answer to Day of the Dead, and provides us with another time to honor our Ancestors, this time with flowers rather than pumpkins. The Fourth of July is not Pagan... but yanno, food and firecrackers... it oughta be! lol! We can participate in these same events everyone else does, and yet make them more meaningful to us by privately acknowledging the ways they fit into our Paganism. When we live in the Broom Closet, we do have to be cautious; maybe not as careful as our ancestors did in the Burning Times (from the 1400s to the 1800s, generally, especially in Europe), but still, we have a lot at stake and it pays to use discretion. We don't ever need to tell anyone what we are. There is an old philosophy that says there are four requirements for being a Witch: To Know, To Will, To Dare, and To Keep Silent. This came out of the Burning Times, when speaking about Witchcraft was punished by death, and over the centuries it has built up a strong reservoir of energy. We can keep silent about who we are and what we do, and we will be joining in with our ancestors in doing so. Have you noticed that you can build up lots of energy around something you're keeping secret, but once you talk about it, all the energy fizzles away? We can make this same principle work for us in the Broom Closet. By choosing not to speak about our Paganism, we can keep our everyday energy contained the same way we would in a working Circle, and gradually get used to working with larger and larger amounts of energy as it builds up. One of the key ways to stay stealth in the Broom Closet is to find the things that carry the same names as they do in the larger culture around us. For instance, many people grow up believing that "prayer" is something specific, that one is only praying if one is reciting specific words that other people wrote, but there is another, broader definition that says prayer is talking to God. And what are we doing when we do a spell, a working, a Circle, or when we send energy, but talking to God/Goddess/All That Is? There are many Pagan gods. One can fit in nicely by talking about God........ and just not specifying which one. Here is where it pays to be eclectic, as well... there is a very old saying in Islam, "All Gods are one God, and Allah is His Name." There is a very old tradition in Wicca that calls the Goddess the Lady of Ten Thousand Names. There is the known history of Paganism that equates various gods and goddesses in different cultures--for instance, Diana/Artemis, or Thor/Ares/Mars. If we take what is similar from these ideas and give it a Pagan twist, we have the statement that "all gods are one god--and the name doesn't matter." cheeky grin Practical matters... how can we have a Pagan altar when we are living completely stealth? Nearly everyone has a dressertop or countertop, a windowsill or bookshelf that could use a little... well, you know.... ornamenting. An interesting rock or crystal gives us Earth. A fresh flower in a vase or a seashell gives us Water. A candle gives us Fire. An incense burner or a pretty feather gives us Air. A living plant combines Earth and Water. A clear piece of glass gives us Fire and Air. A mirror gives us the Goddess or the God. A picture of our Totem animal calls them in. No one ever has to know this is a Pagan altar. In quiet moments, we can allow its simple peace to seep into our souls, grounding us and giving us an unobtrusive focus for our prayers and energy work. We can keep our Book of Shadows (if we choose to have one) on a computer--on a CD or a Flash drive. We can call it a journal--for what is more intimate to the workings of our souls than our own personal book of spirituality? We can develop our talents at writing poetry, singing, making art--these are especially appropriate in Celtic Wicca and Shamanism. We can become people of Nature, decorate with a natural theme, collect rocks, feathers, sticks, seashells, or other natural objects. We can watch the weather, keep a cloud journal, notice the temperatures and the path of the jet stream, chart the rain and snow or the varying speeds of the wind. We can wear jewelry made of stones and crystals, seashells, wood, bone. There are so many things we can do. What ways have you found to fit in, to pass unnoticed while still honoring your Paganism? Bright Blessings to us all! Cath

11-22-2009, 11:01 AM	#2
Bit Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Stonefemme Relationship Status: married to Gryph Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 2,177 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,126 Thanked 3,770 Times in 1,264 Posts Rep Power: 10778870	Hi Penny, welcome! It's nice to meet you! Please feel free to comment or ask questions anytime! Linus, that's a great question! I don't have kids--maybe a couple others will talk about that--but I can tell you that Santa is the strongest memory we have of an indigenous Northern Shaman. Red, black, and white are the colors of the Goddess in all the most ancient cultures, because they are the colors of Life itself. In those far northern cultures, reindeer (caribou, on this side of the pond)were sacred, the givers of life. These days Shamans talk about the drumbeat being the "horse" they ride to do their work, but back in the mists of time, horses were unknown to the Northern peoples; their Shamans rode the flying reindeer in the drumbeat. Evidently there was a strong tradition of the Shaman visiting villages at Midwinter, telling stories, singing songs, wrapped in his sacred furs and bringing his sacred reindeer with him. I don't know if gifts were part of the celebrations, but certainly they have been part of many other cultures' Midwinter feasts, so they might have been---and the tie between Santa and gifts DOES go back several hundred years if not a thousand, so who knows? Maybe that was an integral part of "Scandiwhovian" Midwinters also. It might also very well be that the Shamans were also traders, bringing trade goods to the villages at Midwinter, and that the "gift" tradition is a dim memory of that. Hope this gives you a starting place!

11-22-2009, 11:24 PM	#5
Bit Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Stonefemme Relationship Status: married to Gryph Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 2,177 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,126 Thanked 3,770 Times in 1,264 Posts Rep Power: 10778870	Well, lol, no laundry--friends showed up. It was a happiness, since my freezer and fridge were overstuffed. I always feel like I have to share at Thanksgiving, yanno? It makes me feel "right" inside. Oh hey--twas Raven and I have a report on Megosh! We still can't tell if this is a true recovery or if it's the equivalent of a cancer patient's last rally before they die, BUT Megosh is more alert, willing to move around the apartment, and she's eating and drinking more and more... plus peeing more and more, but hey... Raven will deal with it if it means she has time with Megosh! Anyhow, I came back online to post that letter about Stealth Paganism, so that'll be next. I'm hoping it doesn't break the character limit! I'm known for that...

11-23-2009, 02:11 PM	#7
Bit Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Stonefemme Relationship Status: married to Gryph Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 2,177 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,126 Thanked 3,770 Times in 1,264 Posts Rep Power: 10778870	Here's a link to a new children's book. [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Growing-Up-Pagan-Workbook-Families/dp/0764331434"]Amazon.com: Growing Up Pagan: A Workbook for Wiccan Families (9780764331435): Raine Hill, Gillian M. Pearce: Books[/ame] There are many children's books linked to that page, btw.

11-23-2009, 05:17 PM	#8
foxyshaman Member How Do You Identify?: spiritually minded dirt dog Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: canada Posts: 898 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,957 Thanked 2,592 Times in 663 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Hi Linus, I did tell my kids that Santa was not real... and then I got a call from the school, cause it made other kids cry... and then I got a call from my ex mother in law... and then I decided to take a fox approach... Kids... Santa is an amazing magical being. Christmas is about Magic and the celebration of magic. Etc etc... They accepted that and until they were 10 or 11 (I think) they continued to believe in Santa... We still celebrate Christmas cause most of the family does, but we also celebrate Solstice which is to me more important. Bit thanks for the info on shamanism, it may have been new information. I think personally the red and white of santa's uniform in the Saami traditions is in reference to Amanita Muscaria, or Fly Agaric the magic mushroom. Reindeer love it and it is one theory of flying reindeer... but only one mind you!!!