This is allowed as a political ad?!?!

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Diva

Is it just me? Or does it seem that some sort of "permission" has been granted for all of this 1960's behavior to resurface?

What is happening here? What did I miss? From where is this "courage" to be rude/racist/intolerant/etc. COMING???

A couple of things happened. For one, as MsD pointed out we elected a black man to the highest office in the land. For another, the Internet has allowed the proliferation of all kinds of speech with no kind of filtering. So now we have a culture where the following things are true:

1) People have a sincere belief that if you *believe* something is true, it is, in fact, *actually* true. Meaning that it doesn't really matter that Barack Obama was born in the United States, if you *believe* he was born in Kenya then he was born in Kenya and no one 'has the right to take away your free speech' and insist that you are wrong.

2) The Right has been so effective at crying 'political correctness' and the Left has been so effective at delivering themselves into the hands of the Right that now, they have completely inoculated themselves from any criticism of racism. (Thus this ad. The guy is going to be accused of racism in polite company and he's going to say that "if protecting America makes me a racist, I'm a proud racist") Can you imagine someone in 1980 saying that they were a proud racist? I can't.

3) Please forgive me for putting this quite so bluntly but there are a lot of white folks out there (not saying anyone here) who are doing the demographic math and not liking what they are seeing. Thus the 'take our country back' rhetoric. And from the point of view of lot of these older folks, they HAVE lost their country. I'm 43, I was born just as things were *really* starting to change. So imagine the perspective of someone who is 20 or 30 years older than me.

They were born in, say, 1947. When they were in their early twenties, you could still tell overtly racist jokes in polite company and everyone would laugh. If you were a man, it was exceedingly unlikely that you were going to have to compete with anyone except another white man for any given job. You could grope, grab and cat-whistle at women without anyone saying you were a cad (they might think it) and if they did, you and your buddies could all laugh at how ridiculous they were being. You could make fun of people of other religions, including Jews, with absolute impunity. You could do "Charlie Chan" impersonations of Asians and bad impersonations of the extras from Lawrence of Arabia with absolute and total impunity. Gays and lesbians, when you thought of them at all, were what you didn't want your children to be and would lock them up so that they could have an intimate understanding of the 'electro' part of the electromagnetic spectrum in the form of shock therapy.

Then it changed. First, my parents generation managed to convince the majority that they, too, were real and actual Americans and people and thus deserved to be treated as citizens and not children of some lesser god. Then women stood up and demanded that we, too, were citizens and not children of some lesser kind of goddess. At the same time, more and more non-white groups emigrated to America and because of the work of my parent's generation, they expected acceptance. Then queer people stood up and decided that, we too, should be included in that definition of 'citizen'. And all of this happened in a period, realistically, covering from 1950 to 2000. That's in the living memory of every generation born in the 20th century!

So here they are. No longer are they the undisputed masters and mistresses of the Universe. Hell, they are not even the undisputed masters and mistresses of America! Now, newly arrived immigrants expect to be treated like people and not just amusing local color. Now queer people are expecting to be treated like citizens and not some interesting curiosity nor are we willing to be silent while people hide behind their religion to justify their bigotry.

That's a lot to assimilate in a very short time. Now, I'm not saying that I feel particularly sorry for this lot--quite honestly, I don't. One thing I wish some thinker (and there are some very smart right-wing thinkers out there) on that side would realize is this: the demographic die that has them freaking out so much is already cast. If everyone keeps behaving just as they are right now, in between 35 and 45 years from now the United States will no longer be a majority white nation. How that goes for what will then be the white minority may be decided not then but now. Think about it, somewhere in a hospital in this country, a future President of the United States is being born as are future members of Congress and members of the Supreme court. Less loftily, future hiring managers and future voters are being born. Seems to me, if I were seeing that change coming down the track at me, I would want there to be something remotely resembling racial harmony in this country. This kind of thing seems really short-sighted and perhaps part of the issue is that this lot will, for the most part, not *be* here in 2050 but their children and grandchildren will be and they are making a very hard bed for their descendants to lie in.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

A couple of things happened. For one, as MsD pointed out we elected a black man to the highest office in the land. For another, the Internet has allowed the proliferation of all kinds of speech with no kind of filtering. So now we have a culture where the following things are true:

1) People have a sincere belief that if you *believe* something is true, it is, in fact, *actually* true. Meaning that it doesn't really matter that Barack Obama was born in the United States, if you *believe* he was born in Kenya then he was born in Kenya and no one 'has the right to take away your free speech' and insist that you are wrong.

2) The Right has been so effective at crying 'political correctness' and the Left has been so effective at delivering themselves into the hands of the Right that now, they have completely inoculated themselves from any criticism of racism. (Thus this ad. The guy is going to be accused of racism in polite company and he's going to say that "if protecting America makes me a racist, I'm a proud racist") Can you imagine someone in 1980 saying that they were a proud racist? I can't.

3) Please forgive me for putting this quite so bluntly but there are a lot of white folks out there (not saying anyone here) who are doing the demographic math and not liking what they are seeing. Thus the 'take our country back' rhetoric. And from the point of view of lot of these older folks, they HAVE lost their country. I'm 43, I was born just as things were *really* starting to change. So imagine the perspective of someone who is 20 or 30 years older than me.

They were born in, say, 1947. When they were in their early twenties, you could still tell overtly racist jokes in polite company and everyone would laugh. If you were a man, it was exceedingly unlikely that you were going to have to compete with anyone except another white man for any given job. You could grope, grab and cat-whistle at women without anyone saying you were a cad (they might think it) and if they did, you and your buddies could all laugh at how ridiculous they were being. You could make fun of people of other religions, including Jews, with absolute impunity. You could do "Charlie Chan" impersonations of Asians and bad impersonations of the extras from Lawrence of Arabia with absolute and total impunity. Gays and lesbians, when you thought of them at all, were what you didn't want your children to be and would lock them up so that they could have an intimate understanding of the 'electro' part of the electromagnetic spectrum in the form of shock therapy.

Then it changed. First, my parents generation managed to convince the majority that they, too, were real and actual Americans and people and thus deserved to be treated as citizens and not children of some lesser god. Then women stood up and demanded that we, too, were citizens and not children of some lesser kind of goddess. At the same time, more and more non-white groups emigrated to America and because of the work of my parent's generation, they expected acceptance. Then queer people stood up and decided that, we too, should be included in that definition of 'citizen'. And all of this happened in a period, realistically, covering from 1950 to 2000. That's in the living memory of every generation born in the 20th century!

So here they are. No longer are they the undisputed masters and mistresses of the Universe. Hell, they are not even the undisputed masters and mistresses of America! Now, newly arrived immigrants expect to be treated like people and not just amusing local color. Now queer people are expecting to be treated like citizens and not some interesting curiosity nor are we willing to be silent while people hide behind their religion to justify their bigotry.

That's a lot to assimilate in a very short time. Now, I'm not saying that I feel particularly sorry for this lot--quite honestly, I don't. One thing I wish some thinker (and there are some very smart right-wing thinkers out there) on that side would realize is this: the demographic die that has them freaking out so much is already cast. If everyone keeps behaving just as they are right now, in between 35 and 45 years from now the United States will no longer be a majority white nation. How that goes for what will then be the white minority may be decided not then but now. Think about it, somewhere in a hospital in this country, a future President of the United States is being born as are future members of Congress and members of the Supreme court. Less loftily, future hiring managers and future voters are being born. Seems to me, if I were seeing that change coming down the track at me, I would want there to be something remotely resembling racial harmony in this country. This kind of thing seems really short-sighted and perhaps part of the issue is that this lot will, for the most part, not *be* here in 2050 but their children and grandchildren will be and they are making a very hard bed for their descendants to lie in.

I think a lot about why this is happening, about why we think the way we do and people we grew up with may or may not agree and what moment made the difference.

Was it church, was it school? Was it that we read and they didn't?

I am 46 and I remember how things were when I was a small kid when we would visit the US. It makes me so incredibly sad to see so many of those same things happening all over again.

Things I thought were past.

Internet, 24hour news channels, pundits...

Sorry for the ramble. I really hate negative political campaigning, and this ad may be the worst I have seen.

[waxnrope]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

A couple of things happened. For one, as MsD pointed out we elected a black man to the highest office in the land. For another, the Internet has allowed the proliferation of all kinds of speech with no kind of filtering. So now we have a culture where the following things are true:

1) People have a sincere belief that if you *believe* something is true, it is, in fact, *actually* true. Meaning that it doesn't really matter that Barack Obama was born in the United States, if you *believe* he was born in Kenya then he was born in Kenya and no one 'has the right to take away your free speech' and insist that you are wrong.

2) The Right has been so effective at crying 'political correctness' and the Left has been so effective at delivering themselves into the hands of the Right that now, they have completely inoculated themselves from any criticism of racism. (Thus this ad. The guy is going to be accused of racism in polite company and he's going to say that "if protecting America makes me a racist, I'm a proud racist") Can you imagine someone in 1980 saying that they were a proud racist? I can't.

3) Please forgive me for putting this quite so bluntly but there are a lot of white folks out there (not saying anyone here) who are doing the demographic math and not liking what they are seeing. Thus the 'take our country back' rhetoric. And from the point of view of lot of these older folks, they HAVE lost their country. I'm 43, I was born just as things were *really* starting to change. So imagine the perspective of someone who is 20 or 30 years older than me.

They were born in, say, 1947. When they were in their early twenties, you could still tell overtly racist jokes in polite company and everyone would laugh. If you were a man, it was exceedingly unlikely that you were going to have to compete with anyone except another white man for any given job. You could grope, grab and cat-whistle at women without anyone saying you were a cad (they might think it) and if they did, you and your buddies could all laugh at how ridiculous they were being. You could make fun of people of other religions, including Jews, with absolute impunity. You could do "Charlie Chan" impersonations of Asians and bad impersonations of the extras from Lawrence of Arabia with absolute and total impunity. Gays and lesbians, when you thought of them at all, were what you didn't want your children to be and would lock them up so that they could have an intimate understanding of the 'electro' part of the electromagnetic spectrum in the form of shock therapy.

Then it changed. First, my parents generation managed to convince the majority that they, too, were real and actual Americans and people and thus deserved to be treated as citizens and not children of some lesser god. Then women stood up and demanded that we, too, were citizens and not children of some lesser kind of goddess. At the same time, more and more non-white groups emigrated to America and because of the work of my parent's generation, they expected acceptance. Then queer people stood up and decided that, we too, should be included in that definition of 'citizen'. And all of this happened in a period, realistically, covering from 1950 to 2000. That's in the living memory of every generation born in the 20th century!

So here they are. No longer are they the undisputed masters and mistresses of the Universe. Hell, they are not even the undisputed masters and mistresses of America! Now, newly arrived immigrants expect to be treated like people and not just amusing local color. Now queer people are expecting to be treated like citizens and not some interesting curiosity nor are we willing to be silent while people hide behind their religion to justify their bigotry.

That's a lot to assimilate in a very short time. Now, I'm not saying that I feel particularly sorry for this lot--quite honestly, I don't. One thing I wish some thinker (and there are some very smart right-wing thinkers out there) on that side would realize is this: the demographic die that has them freaking out so much is already cast. If everyone keeps behaving just as they are right now, in between 35 and 45 years from now the United States will no longer be a majority white nation. How that goes for what will then be the white minority may be decided not then but now. Think about it, somewhere in a hospital in this country, a future President of the United States is being born as are future members of Congress and members of the Supreme court. Less loftily, future hiring managers and future voters are being born. Seems to me, if I were seeing that change coming down the track at me, I would want there to be something remotely resembling racial harmony in this country. This kind of thing seems really short-sighted and perhaps part of the issue is that this lot will, for the most part, not *be* here in 2050 but their children and grandchildren will be and they are making a very hard bed for their descendants to lie in.

some of "this lot", unfortunately, are among us ... and that is not only a shame, it is stupid.

[torchiegirl]

You have got to be kidding! This is so outlandish I'm still laughing! This has to be one of the more ridiculous things I have seen. O.k., this was a skit on late night television, right?

[T D]

I'm still having problems accepting the notion that this was/is a for REAL ad. I have so much trouble believing that people act like this and actually think it's OK!! And even worse that others think it's an OK or GOOD thing.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by T D

I'm still having problems accepting the notion that this was/is a for REAL ad. I have so much trouble believing that people act like this and actually think it's OK!! And even worse that others think it's an OK or GOOD thing.

Where truth is stranger than fiction.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by T D

I'm still having problems accepting the notion that this was/is a for REAL ad. I have so much trouble believing that people act like this and actually think it's OK!! And even worse that others think it's an OK or GOOD thing.

But given that there are people who do think like this and do think this ad is completely appropriate, wouldn't you rather know they are there so you can see them coming? As completely repulsive as the ad is, it's one more thing that we can point at and say, "okay, when we're talking about this bigotry this is what we mean..."

Anyone who, knowing about this ad, puts this guy's campaign sign on their lawn is advertising to their neighbors "I'm a bigoted prick and I vote my conscience". If I were that person's neighbor, I'd want to know that. Anyone who puts a bumper sticker with this guy's name on it is advertising to the world just where he stands. If I were that person's co-worker, I'd want to know where he stands so I can give them something of a wide berth.

It's still odious and obnoxious that people would think this kind of thing at all acceptable, but there are people who *do* think just that and if they make it that much easier to spot them so I can either avoid them or be on my guard well, all the better.

Lastly, that ad is going to be an albatross around his neck for the rest of his political career. If he ever aspired to national office, he can pretty much cash that one in because it's likely never going to happen now and if he *were* the national candidate for, say, some third-party formed by disaffected Republicans that ad would dog him through any campaign. Hell, he's running against Alan Greyson and he just handed Greyson a gift! You think for a minute Greyson won't use it against him in the general election? If his campaign manager doesn't have a copy of that ad tucked away someplace to be deployed when needed, then that person is guilty of gross professional negligence.

Cheers
Aj (Who loves Alan Greyson because he's willing to stand up for himself and what he believes in--makes me amazed he's actually a Democrat)

[Heart]

It's not just racism -- the U.S. is marching towards fascism.

[Diva]

May I just say that I am in the process of renewing my passport...in case I have to leave the country....

You think I'm kidding.