How about butch and butch?

[Jane Bond]

Lately I have, but usually I'm 98% drawn to femmes. I was all dressed up after work the other day then I stopped at the 7/11 and this adorable butch was behind me in line. In a nice mannish dark gray suit, super short hair and a diamond stud in one ear. She eyed me and I smiled but freaked out and went out to my car. But I stalled around until the butch came out, smiled at me again, then climbed into into a huge silver SUV. She looked over at me and smiled and kind of waved as she pulled out and I did the same, but I had an urge to jump out my car, run and jump into her big manmobile and say 'what's your pleasure' or some corny line.
I was too chicken.
But lately I've been thinking butches get kind of a raw deal in many ways. We pay for most of the dates, do the driving, pay the bills, lift the heavy stuff, mow the lawn, have to help with inside chores, and behave ourselves or else our femmes sometimes cut us off of sex until we toe the line. Do you other butches think we sometimes get the short end of the stick? I am considering having a flingette with a handsome, dapper butch who is a gentledyke
like me. I'll bet it would easier to get some uncomplicated sex, then maybe watch the game.

[Ascot]

Huh. I guess I should finally accept that I am a big fucking stereotype. I like to be the driver. I'm pretty good at lifting heavy things. I'm okay with picking up the check. The lawn, depending on the size, I'll hire a kid. Yeah, I'm probably going to hold the tongs or spatula at the grill. I like a good, short stick and can think of several uses for one right now.

To any woman who would consider withholding sex because I didn't "behave" I say, "To the moon, Alice!"

I have never been sexually or romantically attracted to other butches, but I understand how and why it appeals to many of my brethren.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Jane Bond is new, so I didn't jump all over the generalizations and the "butches do this" statements.

Maybe I'm mellowing in my old age?

I have nothing else to add...I don't get the butch on butch concept, so I won't join the discussion.

[Jane Bond]

Sorry, it's a complicated topic and hard to avoid generalizations. I should have said This Butch does this and that. All better?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Jane Bond

Sorry, it's a complicated topic and hard to avoid generalizations. I should have said This Butch does this and that. All better?

A bit better, but you might still get your butt chewed out by a person or two. Especially with what reads to be a patronizing apology.

I must admit I thought I would see a joke at the end of your stereotypes. I was shocked when I didn't see one. And I certainly couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the bullshit about femmes holding out. Pretty damn disrespectful.

[Jane Bond]

rolling my eyes...

[Jane Bond]

Originally Posted by T-Rex

[/B]


Hi Jane - Welcome to BFP. I am not moderating you, but just letting you know that the items I bolded were problematic because they are sexist. Not all Butches pay for everything, do all the driving, etc. Not all Femmes hate sports, or withhold sex (my personal favorite item of the whole post) I guess, the reason I came in here (as a moderator) is that even though people were gentle with you via discussion, you followed all that with a dismissive eyeroll comment.

If you want people to listen to you, it's a good idea to listen back and not roll your eyes. At least publically.

Please PM me if you have any questions.

<<<

Hi T-Rex..I try not to be sexist but sometimes I make inadvertently sexist comments, and when I do I'm often making broad, sweeping generalizations based on my personal experiences. I should have prefaced my words with "Lately, I have dated nothing but stereotypical, old-school femmes who did the following..."
The eye-roll thing was impolite and I apologize. Your advice seemed a mite presumptuous, but then I was fresh off a fling where the femme was a real piece of work and I was feeling very cranky and defensive. As I was driving her to dinner the night before, her cell rang and she actually made a date with someone right in my face. Grrr.
Thanks for the tips...

[Daisy Chain]

Welcome Jane.
Your 7/11 butch sounded delightful ! Telepathy would be a wonderful thing at times eh?..{ not least on the boards, little Daisy joke there to lighten the mood..runs and hides behind the sofa !} Like when an invisible Femme such as myself second glances a butch and gets that `why the Hell are you staring at me` glower, when all I am thinking is..`Oh you look like a handsome fellow!`....any way...

as far as the thread topic goes, Butch on butch...fine...femme/femme also fine, bottom sub butches, top alpha Femmes...great...what a wonderful world if we can all just be exactly who we are and ask for what we want eh ? For myself personally ? I want/need to be with a top butch { I am !!} I am a Femme and happen to be a bottom. Those are my needs and tastes, that is who I am and what I like..for now at least..we are all evolving to some point. I defend my right to stand up and state that without judgement just as I defend someone elses right to say `oh thats not for me, I like this, that and sometimes the other`. Good luck to us all I say, be happy, open with your needs and pursue them.

Ascot...my honey too is {your phrase here..`a big fucking stereo type`} its what I love and adore about Hym...I smiled as I read your description !

In reply to some of Jane`s points.....a Butch and a Femme can equally find themselves with a raw deal if they are coupled with someone who does less than their fair share or has limited skills or inclination to do more. If you find thats you then speak up and say how you feel put upon and negotiate a reasonable, flexible arrangement to care for your home, obligations and each other in a way you are both content and happy with your lot.

Hold out on sex is not the way to go whether Butch or Femme..{ why would I punish myself ? !!}

OK Daisy Humor alert ahead...said in jest folks..

Jane, when you find your butch and have your flingette, long after both the uncomplicated sex and the game are over, which one of you is going to wiggle about the house in a French maid`s outfit with a feather duster putting it all pretty again?...just asking !

Daisy

[The_Lady_Snow]

If someone was to say

Snow you ain't getting no nookie cause you (insert whatevs)

I'd laugh, and go get me some nookie elsewhere, period..


As for your desires, I say go for it, life is way to fucking short to miss out, you may have missed out on some super hot sexy time with SUV driving hottie, oh well at least you have spank bank material.


PS

As for that french maid who's gonna wear that conundrum, tight leather pants and an aline shirt look mighty fine around a butch physique...

Just sayin'

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Jane Bond

Lately I have, but usually I'm 98% drawn to femmes. I was all dressed up after work the other day then I stopped at the 7/11 and this adorable butch was behind me in line. In a nice mannish dark gray suit, super short hair and a diamond stud in one ear. She eyed me and I smiled but freaked out and went out to my car. But I stalled around until the butch came out, smiled at me again, then climbed into into a huge silver SUV. She looked over at me and smiled and kind of waved as she pulled out and I did the same, but I had an urge to jump out my car, run and jump into her big manmobile and say 'what's your pleasure' or some corny line.
I was too chicken.
But lately I've been thinking butches get kind of a raw deal in many ways. We pay for most of the dates, do the driving, pay the bills, lift the heavy stuff, mow the lawn, have to help with inside chores, and behave ourselves or else our femmes sometimes cut us off of sex until we toe the line. Do you other butches think we sometimes get the short end of the stick? I am considering having a flingette with a handsome, dapper butch who is a gentledyke
like me. I'll bet it would easier to get some uncomplicated sex, then maybe watch the game.

I agree with Daisy. The 7-11 butch sounds quite lovely.

However, what makes you think that a flingette with a handsome, dapper butch would be uncomplicated?

You've got to be careful with generalizations, of any kind. That hot, sexy butch could be your own 'single white female' or 'fatal attraction' waiting to occur.

Putting people into boxes sucks.

Originally Posted by Jane Bond

Sorry, it's a complicated topic and hard to avoid generalizations. I should have said This Butch does this and that. All better?

Agreed. We should be very specific when it comes to rants. Toes get stepped on otherwise.

No, not quite.....for the reason that Dapper mentions below. Sincerity is key for apologies.

Originally Posted by DapperButch

A bit better, but you might still get your butt chewed out by a person or two. Especially with what reads to be a patronizing apology.

I must admit I thought I would see a joke at the end of your stereotypes. I was shocked when I didn't see one. And I certainly couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the bullshit about femmes holding out. Pretty damn disrespectful.

Agreed. People that 'hold out' are playing a power game and are seeking control of something they feel they can't or don't control. That is not specific to Top or bottom, femme or butch or FTM or MTF or any flavor of the rainbow in between.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

If someone was to say

Snow you ain't getting no nookie cause you (insert whatevs)

I'd laugh, and go get me some nookie elsewhere, period..

As for your desires, I say go for it, life is way to fucking short to miss out, you may have missed out on some super hot sexy time with SUV driving hottie, oh well at least you have spank bank material.

PS

As for that french maid who's gonna wear that conundrum, tight leather pants and an aline shirt look mighty fine around a butch physique...

Just sayin'

Agreed. Leather and A line tees are a nice look.

I like to see foofoo costumes and Leather outfits and everything in between and I like to see them on butches and femmes and FTMS and MTFs and every other flavor out there.

I am pro femme/femme, pro butch/butch, pro FTM/FTM, pro MTF/MTF....basically as long as it's consensual, I'm all for it.

[Jane Bond]

Originally Posted by Daisy Chain

Welcome Jane.

Jane, when you find your butch and have your flingette, long after both the uncomplicated sex and the game are over, which one of you is going to wiggle about the house in a French maid`s outfit with a feather duster putting it all pretty again?...just asking !

Daisy

<<<

That was funny! I think that phase has slowed down considerably 4 me.
I figured out what the deal was with that butch thing. I recently changed colognes, and this new one is some kind of space age molecular lab project that contains only alcohol and one ingredient that is supposed to meld with the user's body chemistry and amp it up so people either don't notice it at all or they ask what it is, follow you home, try to get in your car, or lick you on the neck.
I think butches must like it because they usually don't respond to me like that---all smiley and twinkly eyed. But it turns out femmes like it, too! WooHoo!
There is another cologne called Pheromone that attracts men and butches but ... I gave my bottle to my straight sister.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Jane Bond

Sorry, it's a complicated topic and hard to avoid generalizations. I should have said This Butch does this and that. All better?

Actually no, it isn't all better; that last sarcastic bit made it just that much worse. It is actually very easy to avoid generalizations by saying something like "the women I have dated" do this or that. Your statements, and I'm sure you are very aware, were meant to bring all femmes into this shitty stereotype you've put out there. Perhaps you should broaden your horizons and meet a few femmes that can actually pump their own gas, cut their own meat, and make a living for themselves.

[QueenofSmirks]

Back to the topic...

Although I've always considered myself open-minded, I recognize that I had some very close-minded ideas in my early 20's. I'm ashamed to admit, but I thought bisexuals were afraid of commitment, and butches wanted to be like men. However, at the same time, I was one of the few in the queer community at large who understood, and lived, the butch-femme dynamic. That was a no-no in those days; in fact, being femme was frowned upon where I lived. I was accused of "trying to pass for straight."

Over the years I came to realize that people can be fluid in their gender identity, and who they love, fuck, build lives with, etc. can also be fluid.

As long as people are happy, and it's consensual, it's all good.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by Jane Bond

Lately I have, but usually I'm 98% drawn to femmes. I was all dressed up after work the other day then I stopped at the 7/11 and this adorable butch was behind me in line. In a nice mannish dark gray suit, super short hair and a diamond stud in one ear. She eyed me and I smiled but freaked out and went out to my car. But I stalled around until the butch came out, smiled at me again, then climbed into into a huge silver SUV. She looked over at me and smiled and kind of waved as she pulled out and I did the same, but I had an urge to jump out my car, run and jump into her big manmobile and say 'what's your pleasure' or some corny line.
I was too chicken.
But lately I've been thinking butches get kind of a raw deal in many ways. We pay for most of the dates, do the driving, pay the bills, lift the heavy stuff, mow the lawn, have to help with inside chores, and behave ourselves or else our femmes sometimes cut us off of sex until we toe the line. Do you other butches think we sometimes get the short end of the stick? I am considering having a flingette with a handsome, dapper butch who is a gentledyke
like me. I'll bet it would easier to get some uncomplicated sex, then maybe watch the game.

I am starting to feel this way myself. The part about a flingette that is. But I do see the connection between butch and butch. I am open to being with a femme, butch or ftm.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Jane Bond

...
But lately I've been thinking butches get kind of a raw deal in many ways. We pay for most of the dates, do the driving, pay the bills, lift the heavy stuff, mow the lawn, have to help with inside chores, and behave ourselves or else our femmes sometimes cut us off of sex until we toe the line. Do you other butches think we sometimes get the short end of the stick? I am considering having a flingette with a handsome, dapper butch who is a gentledyke
like me. I'll bet it would easier to get some uncomplicated sex, then maybe watch the game.

Hello Jane, and welcome to BFP. It's been a little while since I checked in here. That's a lucky thing for you. I'll follow the prevailing energy and react gently since, as they say, you're new around here.

Besides being sexist as T-Rex patiently pointed out to you, what you wrote is fairly disgusting and dismissive. It sounds like comical posturing to me, though. Have you really dated women who expect all the above from you? And it seems you claim to have delivered the above in fear of getting cut off from sex. Really? And then after you lifted some heavy objects in exchange for your bj, did she demand a diamond tennis bracelet before she put out a little more? Or, are you spinning some fantasy for yourself of what it means to be butch?

Like most of the adult women here, I work for a living and lift my own heavy loads, thankyouverymuch. If I choose a partner again, she'll be my equal.

[Jane Bond]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Hello Jane, and welcome to BFP. It's been a little while since I checked in here. That's a lucky thing for you. I'll follow the prevailing energy and react gently since, as they say, you're new around here.

Besides being sexist as T-Rex patiently pointed out to you, what you wrote is fairly disgusting and dismissive. It sounds like comical posturing to me, though. Have you really dated women who expect all the above from you? And it seems you claim to have delivered the above in fear of getting cut off from sex. Really? And then after you lifted some heavy objects in exchange for your bj, did she demand a diamond tennis bracelet before she put out a little more? Or, are you spinning some fantasy for yourself of what it means to be butch?

Like most of the adult women here, I work for a living and lift my own heavy loads, thankyouverymuch. If I choose a partner again, she'll be my equal.

Hi Cheryl,
Perhaps because I have been out for three decades, I have indeed run into more than a few femmes who acted exactly as I described. Of course I agree that most femmes have evolved since the 70's and 80's, but as I told T-Rex, I recently dated three blast from the past gimme gimme-style femmes, and it freaked me out. I should have slept on it a few more days before posting. I'm sorry if I ruffled your feathers with my Neanderthal grumblings. Subtlety has never been my long suit.

[The_Lady_Snow]

"Ruffled your feathers"

WTF, are you a troll? Or really that fucking dense?


Maybe just MAYBE you pick douche bag dates because you get what you give?


Seriously, stop typing...

[Jane Bond]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

"Ruffled your feathers"

WTF, are you a troll? Or really that fucking dense?


Maybe just MAYBE you pick douche bag dates because you get what you give?


Seriously, stop typing...

WTF? What's wrong with the term, "ruffled your feathers"? What should I have used, some banal cliche that's generic enough to suit everyone? The name calling in your post is what's really offensive. Then to cast aspersions on my dates by calling them douche bags? You've ruffled my feathers and I suspect you're they type who must have the last word, so go ahead, then please block me.
This thread was between me and two women, but had nothing to do with you. Yet your excess aggression said more more about you than me. Bye now.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Jane Bond

Hi Cheryl,
Perhaps because I have been out for three decades, I have indeed run into more than a few femmes who acted exactly as I described. Of course I agree that most femmes have evolved since the 70's and 80's, but as I told T-Rex, I recently dated three blast from the past gimme gimme-style femmes, and it freaked me out. I should have slept on it a few more days before posting. I'm sorry if I ruffled your feathers with my Neanderthal grumblings. Subtlety has never been my long suit.

Jane Bond- Perhaps your use of the term 'ruffled feathers' wouldn't sound quite as dismissive had you not prefaced it with your previous dismissive and sexist posts. 'Ruffled feathers' is one way that men habitually speak about women who remind them of clucking hens. I have no feathers to ruffle, being an adult woman, and all. In fact, I was and am legitimately disgusted by your language and your attitude. I should remind you that YOU ARE a woman. When you write in a derogatory way about women in general, you're writing about yourself.

I was rather gentle in my first response to you. I advise you not to poke me again.