The Femme Continuum: The "Highs" and "Lows" of Visibility

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Yes and many masculine women who are not butch or lesbian/queer are often read as lesbian/queer as well.

I guess my point was, the standard for lesbian/queer seems to lean more towards the androgynous/masculine side than to the feminine side.

I wonder why that is? Is it just THAT ingrained? Remember when K.D. Lang was on the cover of some magazine with Cindy Crawford giving her a shave?

On one hand it was kind of hot, just because I adore K.D. Lang. But it kind of pissed me off that she was up there with a hyper feminine straight girl. I felt uber icky about that.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I wonder why that is? Is it just THAT ingrained? Remember when K.D. Lang was on the cover of some magazine with Cindy Crawford giving her a shave?

On one hand it was kind of hot, just because I adore K.D. Lang. But it kind of pissed me off that she was up there with a hyper feminine straight girl. I felt uber icky about that.

What femme lesbians existed back then? How would you know? (and I'm thinking mainstream media models -- IIRC, this was for a fashion magazine)

I think that was one of the prime examples of femmes being invisible (I know Crawford -- or at least I believe she isn't -- gay but how would we know?).

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Linus

What femme lesbians existed back then? How would you know? (and I'm thinking mainstream media models -- IIRC, this was for a fashion magazine)

I think that was one of the prime examples of femmes being invisible (I know Crawford -- or at least I believe she isn't -- gay but how would we know?).

What mainstream media models of femme exist NOW for that matter?

[Linus]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

What mainstream media models of femme exist NOW for that matter?

True. If they are there, we don't know or they choose to keep quiet.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Linus

True. If they are there, we don't know or they choose to keep quiet.

I can't think of any. Not that I don't sometimes want to label somebody, like say...Portia Derossi and Ellen. The thing is, they haven't mentioned it and though I'd love it, it's not so. The very FACT that I want to label them a cute Butch Femme couple is wrong. I think it comes from desperately wanting role models and people "like me" in my every day media.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I can't think of any. Not that I don't sometimes want to label somebody, like say...Portia Derossi and Ellen. The thing is, they haven't mentioned it and though I'd love it, it's not so. The very FACT that I want to label them a cute Butch Femme couple is wrong. I think it comes from desperately wanting role models and people "like me" in my every day media.

I don't think that's wrong. I know that Kirsten Vangsness is gay and for some reason struck me as femme but not sure why. (I don't believe she's in a B-F relationship however). I think the media is stuck on the idea that a femme is a non-existent being (being lesbian and being feminine is not allowed as far as the MSM is concerned -- unless it's pr0n.)

[DamselFly]

as to the continuum, i've been all over the place as to outer appearances:in the beginning wearing "the uniform" back in the 70s, if y'all remember that: looking as girly as could be, and frequently mistaken for a straight woman (which i HATE), and now somewhere in the middle, i guess, wearing short hair b/c of being a Roshi and jeans around the farm, but dresses or feminine pants and shirts, polished nails, lipstick, etc when i go to town. if i go in my "farmhand attire", i run the risk of being mistaken for a kid, even by other kids, lol.
i do think that femmes get judged both ways by the way they dress, and that there IS a hierarchy from "High femme" being the Queen Bee, so to speak, and "low femme" being seen as an androgyne in hiding, though if you're "High femme", you sometimes get castigated for being "too straight" and "low femme", you're not seen at all.
i really dislike this hierarchy, though i've seen less expectation of it here than on some other sites and some other real time places. to me a femme is a femme, and how she chooses to express herself is her (and if she wishes, her partner's) business. i am no less a femme b/c i am not constantly in dresses w/high heels, my make-up always so, etc. my current lifestyle does not permit that, even if i still wanted it. as i've grown older, i've become more myself and less what i thought the world, even the B/f world, wanted. i am a Roshi, so my hair is very short. because of my modesty code, i wear longer usually free-flowing skirts or dresses, when i'm not in "farmhand attire". because i walk with a cane, heels are no longer an option. i realize that this puts me "out of the radar" of some butches, but then, i wouldn't be accepted as me, even if somehow noticed. i want S/someone who wants me for me! i'm very up-front about who i am! (as if Y/you hadn't noticed that by now, lol.)
my 2 cents.
DamselFly

[PumaJ]

I'm High Femme and very, very girlie in many ways, though I'm not a "princess". I know how to use power tools, for example, and have used them when necessary. I'm definitely a feminist & am not into any of the "I can't do such & such because I'm the Femme, or 'you' have to do such & such because you are the Butch/Stud/Boi". Blech on that, though, in the bedroom 'roles' do get a bit more defined;-)

I suppose that in some ways the fact that I am a lesbian has been invisible to some people. The fact that my being a High Femme lesbian has never been invisible to Butches/Studs/Bois is all that matters to me. In regard to other styles of lesbians, they either get it, or not. I really don't care.

I did find the early years of Second Wave feminism to be difficult for me. Even though I did my best to wear the 'uniform" I could never quite give up the mascara and lip stick. That was an issue for some. A few years ago, I used to attend a monthly Sunday brunch for Jewish lesbians in my neck of the woods. I was always the most glam lesbian in the group. At first some of the other women looked a bit askance at me, but over time they got over it. I figured I presented an opportunity for them to put their money where their mouths were, so to speak, in regard to their professed feminism, i.e. they really did get it about one being a woman identified woman, or they didn't. In other words, those that had some issues with my way of being got to learn that High Femme has absolutely zero to do with the dominant culture's rules regarding the feminine and females. Fortunately for the group only a few of the members had to stretch & grow in that area. Everyone else was very chill.

[blush]

Originally Posted by DamselFly

i do think that femmes get judged both ways by the way they dress, and that there IS a hierarchy from "High femme" being the Queen Bee, so to speak, and "low femme" being seen as an androgyne in hiding, though if you're "High femme", you sometimes get castigated for being "too straight" and "low femme", you're not seen at all.

DamselFly

Is there a hierarchy? I purposefully don't use a modifier before the word "femme" because usually high or low or whatever was ascribed TO ME by well-meaning friends or partners. It perpetuates the idea that being femme is all about our appearence.