Expectations of FTMs/transsexed men (Dylan's thread)

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I also think these 'expectations' put undo pressure on transmen to then BE more 'sensitive' or 'pleasing' or face nasty commentary like, "I would think you'd be more aware of that, being that you used to be a woman". Um, I was never a woman. I may have been female-bodied, but I've never been a woman. Don't expect me to be anything but a man.

Not ALL of us transmen are more sensitive. Don't 'expect' us to be more knowing or more in tune. While aware of social conditioning, some of us picked up the social conditioning of <shock of all shocks> MEN, because we ARE men.

If you think you're getting a 'really masculine woman' or someone who's been 'sensitized' by past experience, you're A) seeing transmen as female, and B) setting yourself up for disappointment if you think this is how all transmen act.

I don't 'get' women anymore than your dad, brother, uncle, or cousin. If you think I'm going to want to 'process' anymore than your dad, uncle, ex husband, brother, etc...you're in for an unpleasant surprise. If you think I'm 'the best of both worlds', we're going to have some problems. If you think I'm going to magically know how to 'read your mind', you're in for another unpleasant surprise. And honestly, if you think any of these things, you're seeing me as 'has been woman'...because these aren't expectations you have of men. EXPECT me to be (your picture of) a man, and I might surprise you, by remembering your birthday. EXPECT me to 'be more sensitive', and you'll be sadly disappointed.


Dylan

On the flip side a lot of trans men are going to be sadly disappointed if they expect queer femmes to be exactly like straight women.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by BullDog

On the flip side a lot of trans men are going to be sadly disappointed if they expect queer femmes to be exactly like straight women.

Is there a transman in this thread or on this site who has said they expect queer femmes to be exactly like straight women?


Because I'm Not Seeing Your Point,
Dylan...would think ANYONE with expectations is going to be disappointed when dating REAL people

[BullDog]

If a queer femme is to see trans men exactly as they see non-trans men, then in order to be attracted to a trans man she's supposed to be attracted to all men? How does this work if one is queer?

Why are there so many expectations put on queer femmes to understand men (trans and non-trans) in a queer community and not so much the other way around?

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by BullDog

If a queer femme is to see trans men exactly as they see non-trans men, then in order to be attracted to a trans man she's supposed to be attracted to all men? How does this work if one is queer?

Why are there so many expectations put on queer femmes to understand men (trans and non-trans) in a queer community and not so much the other way around?

Shock of all shocks

Queer does NOT mean lesbian...this is NOT a lesbian community, this is a QUEER community, and QUEER doesn't mean lesbian

I never said anyone is 'supposed to be' attracted to anyone they're not attracted to

I said (basically), don't expect transmen to act a certain way or lump us all together with (gross) stereotypes...there's a big difference between that and what you're saying


You're Mixing My Words And You're Mixing My Words With The Words Of Other Posters,
Dylan

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Shock of all shocks

Queer does NOT mean lesbian...this is NOT a lesbian community, this is a QUEER community, and QUEER doesn't mean lesbian

I never said anyone is 'supposed to be' attracted to anyone they're not attracted to

I said (basically), don't expect transmen to act a certain way or lump us all together with (gross) stereotypes...there's a big difference between that and what you're saying


You're Mixing My Words And You're Mixing My Words With The Words Of Other Posters,
Dylan

Yup, it is a Queer community, but also one embracing the B-F dynamic. And there are a whole lot of lesbian queers here, too. Butches and femmes.

Nope.... lumping any group of people into neat little stereotypes is not a good idea! When I look at all of the Transmen I know (and I mean, really know), they are all quite unique and sure don't fit into any particular box. Nor do the MtF’s I know. The same goes for all of the different butch-femme, queer folks I know and have met through this very online community. I'm a butch woman who is a lesbian which I see as just one part of the entire queer community. Lesbians don't fall into one category, either. Then we have all of the differing kinds of sexuality within the queer community.

Thinking, however, that I have not seen the numbers of generalizations and stereotypes I have in the B-F community since I was a teenager and straight! I'm 59 now. Why is this community so closed minded and at the same time pretends to aspire to diversity?

I'm thinking, (but do not know this, as I am not a Transperson) that any person on the trans spectrum would want someone to be attracted to them due to their entire persona just like attraction works for all people. I mean the past, present and future promise in a person's experience and growth. Sure, physical appeal (which really is in the eye of the beholder) has to be present, but so do common values, politics, goals.... And the element of magic, yanno, the chemistry that just happens to us all.

I would hope to hell that someone would not do to a Transperson the same that some straight people do in experimenting with queer folks without really caring for them! And, we have all seen star-fucking in action throughout life!

Hummm... are we talking just attraction here, or attraction as it relates to relationship building? Asking because, I know that how I acted on just pure physical attraction in my teens and 20's is a hell of a lot different than when I was older.. and very different now.

I guess I am seeing a difference between the basic fuck-factor and attraction and the fuck-factor plus phenomena concerning attraction. Seems like both would apply to all of us, No?

I still at times find non-Transmen attractive and yes, that means that my ovaries spin just as they do when I am very attracted (for me that means a totality of factors about an individual including the physical) to a woman or a femme (yes, I am attracted to non-femmes, sometimes). Also, I have had attractions to MtF’s and Transmen that are gay men (Sean Dorsey and other FtM’s like him are fine!). Go figure! Humm, to date, I have not been attracted to a Transman that is straight. Or one that identifies as queer as in within the B-F community.

Shit, this is complicated! And… diverse! I hope I didn’t mix anything up with my distinctions! And Heaven forbid, my butch-card could be discredited by admitting different attractions! Again, I speak of how closed ( and really quite conformist) I often view this community to be (which makes me sad).

LOL... I'm cussing, again! I hardly ever swore until I joined the B-F community.... see what ya'll are doing to me! Nah, its all good... really it ALL is good!

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Bitches and femmes.

I love typos. I promise I'm not making fun of you.

Like on the news the other day when the newscaster said "Christless counselors are on the scene" (meaning CRISIS counselors) It killed me a whole lot.

[TenderKnight]

Originally Posted by BullDog

If a queer femme is to see trans men exactly as they see non-trans men, then in order to be attracted to a trans man she's supposed to be attracted to all men? How does this work if one is queer?

Mmmm.. You don't need to be attracted to ALL men.. But, if a queer femme is attracted to me, I would want them to be attracted to me as the man I am and always have been, rather then as someone that was a woman and now looks like a man.. you know?

Why are there so many expectations put on queer femmes to understand men (trans and non-trans) in a queer community and not so much the other way around?

mmmm.. I get your frustration here, and I agree that it isn't fair for the full weight of understanding be put on a femme's shoulders.. I posted in another thread about how I am "relearning" a lot of what I learned about femmes.. Just as a bio guy would have to "relearn" a lot of the stereotypes put out there about what a woman is, isn't and supposed to be..

Just my input.

-Tony