Expectations of FTMs/transsexed men (Dylan's thread)

[Dylan]

Bulldog, I swear sometimes, I wonder why I continue to engage with you when it continually seems like you don't read my posts at all. It seems like you just glance over them, pick out a few words, and fill in the blanks with a conversation you'd LIKE to have.


Jus' Sayin',
Dylan

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Bulldog, I swear sometimes, I wonder why I continue to engage with you when it continually seems like you don't read my posts at all. It seems like you just glance over them, pick out a few words, and fill in the blanks with a conversation you'd LIKE to have.


Jus' Sayin',
Dylan

Dylan, I feel the same about you. You don't appear to read my posts and I feel like you just play gotcha games with me. Maybe it's just a communication gap. Shrug.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Dylan, I feel the same about you. You don't appear to read my posts and I feel like you just play gotcha games with me. Maybe it's just a communication gap. Shrug.

There's no 'gotcha game', Bulldog

I assume your questions are in an attempt for clarification/knowledge

When I answer your questions, you start a defensive line of 'no I didn't' (when no one said you did) instead of just listening.

I mean, why come into two trans threads now to talk about how you didn't say anything? Why ask questions in the Trans Zone if you're not going to listen to the answers? What's the point of that? Because the only point I can see is to start something.


Dylan

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Dylan

There's no 'gotcha game', Bulldog

I assume your questions are in an attempt for clarification/knowledge

When I answer your questions, you start a defensive line of 'no I didn't' (when no one said you did) instead of just listening.

I mean, why come into two trans threads now to talk about how you didn't say anything? Why ask questions in the Trans Zone if you're not going to listen to the answers? What's the point of that? Because the only point I can see is to start something.


Dylan

Dylan, I am not being the slightest bit defensive. I never said I didn't say anything- that actually doesn't make sense. I think this is derailing the conversation. So please enjoy your conversation. I am taking a bow- and no I am not "quitting" or leaving in a huff. Enjoy your conversation.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I have to ask cause I am taking a break and I am curious..

What would happen if a guy went into a FIB thread and started this sort of dialogue?

What would be the response would they be welcomed?

I truly am curios here..

[adorable]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Bulldog, I swear sometimes, I wonder why I continue to engage with you when it continually seems like you don't read my posts at all. It seems like you just glance over them, pick out a few words, and fill in the blanks with a conversation you'd LIKE to have.


Jus' Sayin',
Dylan

Originally Posted by BullDog

Dylan, I feel the same about you. You don't appear to read my posts and I feel like you just play gotcha games with me. Maybe it's just a communication gap. Shrug.

And yet......

It would be fanfreakingtastic if we could have a discussion where you two DIDN'T feel the need to do this. Whatever the hell "this" is...

[BullDog]

By all means have your conversation. Enjoy.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by BullDog

By all means have your conversation. Enjoy.

I guess this answers my questions..

With all due respect Bulldog, I was merely curious, and no ill intent was behind my question, matter of fact I asked what I know is a question a couple people wanted to ask

I just ask cause well I am curious and I am not scared nor intimated into not asking difficult questions.

No one asked you to leave.. Just clarifying that as well.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I guess this answers my questions..

With all due respect Bulldog, I was merely curious, and no ill intent was behind my question, matter of fact I asked what I know is a question a couple people wanted to ask

I just ask cause well I am curious and I am not scared nor intimated into not asking difficult questions.

No one asked you to leave.. Just clarifying that as well.

No I understand. No offense taken. I think the dialogue between me and Dylan is not productive and is derailing. I will read the upcoming convo.

[Jett]

It is a queer site, it is very welcoming to all kinds of genders and sexes... but it is a Butch Femme queer site which by it's very nature (nobody jump me I'm not saying "natural") is female and lesbian orientated and historical roots is based in women's history. That's just a reality and not someone's attempt trying to keep anybody out... I personally think we're a very open site.

Who belongs here? Anyone who feels like they belong here and feel a connection to these things in what-ever way.

That said there aren't any men who aren't of a trans experience here (that I know of nor have I seen any before), not because it's law but because they don't feel any connection apparently. Perhaps this is part the reason a few femmes feel a connection to transmen and not other men. Maybe sometimes, it's really a lot simpler motive or what-ever when people make the distinction of transman rather than man... even just that some peeps be making things clearer for their own personal reasons b/c some might wonder why there's a man of non-trans experience on the site if they never mention he's of trans experience?

Anyway I don't see why people in some instances seeing a difference whatever as that may be as their experience (though I don't agree with generalizations) as a big problem.

I've heard a couple transmen (agreed not many want anything to do with it) have expressed they feel they "get" women more, and they honor and value much of the part of their lives before transition, and I don't think that makes them any less as men... that may also be how some people view a difference between some transmen and men who aren't trans.

Dylan more specifically to you.

Why do you care how other transmen and femmes run their relationships? Or more specifically how they refer to each other (you keep commenting on what you see in other transmen's relationships), if the guy in question isn't having a problem with it why do you care? If he does, shouldn't he be the one to deal with it? I think when someone paints these scenarios as some femme who doesn't see her guy as a real man and he just folds to it, it makes it real hard for them BOTH all around because your putting your spin on their relationship.

Also you started this up with, transmen aren't some duality of genders and anymore sensitive than whatever, I agree most seem to feel that way... but to go on to drag all kinds of people into the mud, femmes who've experienced transman as more sensitive is inferring somehow they're not real men, questioning the motives of couples who've referred to each other in a way that Dylan doesn't like, then the whole B-F community cause maybe it's their fault for putting the screws to trans couples and pulling queer cards (really?), and female ID's are the most sexist talking people around (worse than roofers even).

This is all off the top of my head and sure talk about anybody you want however you want but then you want to complain about generalizations?

Anyway I know transmen who want to be recognized as transmen, who make a distinction between between themselves, experiences and feelings and men who aren't of a trans experience.

I just feel like if you want people to call you a man, that's fine, scream it from the rooftops, but I don't think it's necessary to make it out that this community just doesn't respect transmen... all transmen are different (just like the rest of us human beings) and I don't think we should start referring to anyone by just one person's personal preferences.

Transmen are a piece of this community, and should be respected as such but it works both ways and the community, femmes, butches of any ID, no one should be dragged through the mud to make a point anymore than they should. Whether you think you are doing that... I'm just saying what it looks like too me.

And, personal level... I never have responded well to people going around in demanding tone that I respect their "man-ness". Again personal level, I have respect for transmen, men, males... just not just that scenario. That tends to just get a "get over you bad self" reaction from me. How about if I just call you Dylan and think of you as male... cause that's what I usually do with guys here who have a transition experience.

Metropolis

An add... "formerly female"? Never ever seen that to sum up transmen... could have missed it, who knows... I agree it would seem disrespectful depending on the context.

And, Snow... I know that was to Bull, but in my experience I've never ever started a thread about FIB where males of whatever ID trans included didn't come in with their "pov".... many times in droves.

[The_Lady_Snow]

This is where it gets icky for me and I bounce out of the convo.. I watch this and *remember* the beginning of what started a rush fire of label and gender threads. I think that is AWESOME, but now with all this and all this finger pointing on who is more welcomed here than whom I must say it's yucky. I can't understand why there can not be a conversation in a queer space without it turning into what is going on here.

Can't just everyone have space here?

I am truly curious cause I can't see how we want the straights to accept us when we can't even fucking be nice to one another.. That means all of us...