The Psychology of Online Dating

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Greco

I no longer date online, period. Discovered that many PD (Personality Disordered) folks basically make online dating, etc their "hunting grounds". As a consequence of my experience with a femme narcissist I dove deeply into my healing from it. And began researching people with personality disorders for several years and now work with people who have also survived these abusive and dangerous people/relationships.

Online dating? No way.

Greco

I want to clarify that when I post of online dating, I am talking specific dating sites such as Match.Com; not forum sites or other online sites, where making casual friends or acquaintances may be the goal, rather than meeting a potential partner.

When I specifically date from an online dating site and state that I only date locally, all of my dates were first at a local Starbucks or Peets for coffee (and even meeting for coffee is a casual date).

After that, one or both of us would decide if we wanted to meet again or just agree there was no chemistry to pursue something.

Online "dating" can mean different things to different people.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by girl_dee

do you consider long distance dating, online dating?

I think one leads to the other.

Originally Posted by Lyte

Another ... major issue... not yet mentioned is logistics. Two people feel they've hit it off and are perfect for one another! So... who's going to give up they're current life/location and move? Give up their home, if they own, give up their job, if they were working on a career there and give up friends... and family... if they still live in their home town. <-- that's a hell of a lot for one person to give up on a hell of a lot less insight/intimacy that comes from being in the person's presence.

Having been in this boat, if a couple is at that point, the one who is more flexible in terms of employment/lifestyle/etc usually is the one to move or else both will move to a neutral location together.

Most of the time, this decision isn't made lightly and there's a lot of conversation and thought put into it. It's not like someone is saying "I love you" and "I want to live with you" after only two days/dates/visits. Sure, there are some folks who click right away or others who fall into the sucker category (been there....don't recommend it!) who will move faster than others but most folks take their time with this momentous of a decision. It's going to affect the direction of their lives going forward and change everything.

Originally Posted by Lyte

You make a valid, if not startling, point.

IF someone did have a PD ... or frankly ... was just an unpleasant person... and found themselves unsuccessful in real life, (friends, lovers and such) ... the internet is a place where they can learn/practice masking their issues. Or masking them sufficiently to have some kind of social life.

This is not to suggest that a good number of people who socialize online have issues! It simply means that the the internet gives them a better cover and makes it much more difficult for others to get the best "read" on them.

Questions...

What part has missing... or, let's be honest ignoring... red flags played in anyone's online dating?

Dating is often the first step we take when we're attracted to someone and want to learn and experience more of them. But... we enter a very tricky place with someone once we "officially" start dating and/or call us getting together a date. Does the getting to know someone require a "date?" Why not get to know someone and then say, if only to yourself... I want to date this person!

First, there's a bad apple in every barrel and also, there are people with some serious psychological issues sitting right next to you at work right now and you've not a clue. That's the nature of these conditions. The people who have them are experts at hiding the things that would stick out to the rest of the population.

Both of your dating versions could work. Each couple's relationship is individual and unique. As long as people are happy and healthy and treat one another well, I say do the damn thing.

[Lyte]

I'm all for dating sites (and even forums)! I think those are fine for better locating likeminded individuals... who are local.

Originally Posted by *Anya*

I want to clarify that when I post of online dating, I am talking specific dating sites such as Match.Com; not forum sites or other online sites, where making casual friends or acquaintances may be the goal, rather than meeting a potential partner.

[knight]

I think the truth of the person comes out regardless in real time, or face to face on skype. I think we always know from the beginning. I believe we see signs and we chose to ignore or pay attention. Reputation in real life and online has some validity but the source is always important to note. I know from myself from experience i have never listened to others opinions of people I always gave people a chance, even if they were right at the end.

Originally Posted by girl_dee

i will come back to this but one thing that is a positive for me.. is history.

Example..

i meet you in a bar.. i have no idea who you are.. how you treat femmes... if you are a player..

i meet you in a chatroom on this site... i probably know you from the threads... or reunions etc... i can see a history.. i can see if you and i have similar interests or opinions.. etc

if you ARE a player it will likely show up online somewhere...

a LOT of information can be gained when you decide to date someone online.


GREAT thread Knight!

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by knight

I think the truth of the person comes out regardless in real time, or face to face on skype. I think we always know from the beginning. I believe we see signs and we chose to ignore or pay attention. Reputation in real life and online has some validity but the source is always important to note. I know from myself from experience i have never listened to others opinions of people I always gave people a chance, even if they were right at the end.

i've always felt this way... i am a true believer that when someone shows you who they are, you should believe it.

[BullDog]

I do agree that red flags are often ignored but I don't agree that you always know from the beginning. That is why you get to know someone in the first place. That isn't just due to someone being potentially a bad apple or dishonest either. It's just getting to know them in all different situations. You need to be able to get along and communicate well - both when things are going well and when there is a misunderstanding or problem. And I also agree it is best to get to know someone on your own because you may have an entirely different way of viewing a person and getting along with them than another person does.

I have had many surprises - mostly good and some bad - from getting to know someone better in person. Some could definitely be from not paying attention to red flags but some things you just don't know until it happens. And I don't feel anyone has ever been fundamentally dishonest with me or tried to hide some bad part of herself. And I have done the same. I am always Me. There are definitely some things that I would have never, ever anticipated.

Logistics has also played a role because I tend to always be interested in someone who lives far away! I don't do that on purpose. I always have specific reasons why I am interested in someone. It just has made it difficult to have lots of time visiting in person before making a move due to money, time, distance, etc. So I have made moves based on limited amount of time spent in person, which isn't the greatest thing. It has however involved tons and tons of extensive communication and interaction, just not a lot in person. But I haven't moved out of some kind of desperation that I couldn't be alone or had to have instant marriage. It just was the next step and lots of visits were kind of not real practical at the time. It wasn't ideal. But I took the chance because I do have flexibility due to my work and situation, and real, enduring love and and sharing my life with the woman I love is worth it to me. If I had been able to spend more time in person before making a move would things have turned out differently in past relationships? I don't honestly know, but it is something I wish I could have done and if I can't... maybe it is something I need to pay attention to. It is something I have thought about a lot.

I would much prefer not to do LDR because it is hard enough without the extra factors, but it can be worth if you find the right person. However, when it doesn't work out it does take a huge emotional toll. So I definitely don't blame those who prefer to only date locally, but I understand those who are giving LDR a shot as well.

[Lyte]

We humans are such curious creatures! We're so alike and yet so different.

Preface... none of the peeps or situation I'm about to reference on here on BFP! Story time...

I met a gal (West Coast) and we hit it off quite well from the start! But... also from the start... I noticed some inconsistencies in some of the things she said. You know ... someone tells you that it's X ... but you're seeing/hearing a lotta Y and a lil bit of Z. lol Anyway... so this was within the first couple of weeks and I've no problem being direct. Gently direct, I hope. So, I asked her straight up ... "Are you involved" and/or "Are you living with someone?" I added that either way was fine with me since we're just chatting and that I was more than happy to continue talking with her. Her response was an equally straight up "No, I'm not." So, chatting turned to flirting and yadda yadda... this went on for about three months... I then discovered that she had been lying from day one and was in fact living with her fiancé! Oy!

In speaking with a friend afterwards I told her that I was surprised by how much I wasn't bummed! I was bummed at losing someone that I enjoyed chatting and flirting with but I wasn't nearly disappointed as I could have been had I took this stranger at her word ... and ignored the red flags. I felt way worse for her fiancé!

New story...

I have a friend who's last three girl friends came from meeting online. The first she met online in 2015. She shared with me her conversations with the first two and ... dang... flags... flags... flags!! Despite my efforts and ... coaching* ... for lack of a better word ... she decided to start a relationship each and even moved to be with them. Long story short... first and second where just awful! The second was abusive. She was heart broken over both. Curiously, she didn't say much to me about the third one... so... my fingers are crossed and so far... from what I hear... so good!

Point being... we're all so very much alike... we all want love... or maybe just some attention... and yet so different in what we're willing to do... what we're willing to endure ... to get that attention. There's no right or wrong here or judgment on my part. Just some observations from my first half of 2017.

*"Coaching" ... cuz she's brand new... just came out in her late 30's after having been married to a guy for 15+ years. She doesn't know the lay of the lesbian landscape.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by knight

The psychology of online dating
Face to face dating in general can be very positive, difficult, exciting, disappointing and at times energy consuming. Add online to the mix and you have a variety of factors to add to the list above. I speak here only from experience and opinion. I claim not, that I am an expert of any kind, I am only feeling my way through the experience just like everyone else.
Regardless of identity, most human beings experience dating at one time or another in their lives. There seems to be this interesting stigma (again I speak only from experience) when it comes to dating in the Butch/Femme world.
Again regardless of preferences within the dynamic of Butch/Femme… dating seems to be an “ugly” word. My approach to dating is simple, is to try to connect with people of like interest. If I find myself in a position where I simply lack capacity for investing time in a serious relationship I am very transparent and forth coming about it. When I feel completely open to the idea of a serious relationship, it starts with dating.
I have had the great pleasure of dating amazing women online and truly enjoyed the exchange that we had. I am sometimes baffled by the opinions that I hear of individuals like me. Dating someone is not a marriage certificate, it is simply dating. My approach to dating or choosing a partner has never come from a scarcity model. We all have a lot to offer, and one should simply never settle just because we think this is as good as it gets. The dating pool is a large pool, it’s not this desperate place where one feels that they have to attach to the first person that gives them attention.
I think the process of dating allows you to know the individual, and not just go on the initial infatuation. Deciding to end or continue dating is a big decision that requires a lot of care. Having to decide that an individual that you are dating is simply not going to work out is always difficult and disappointing. A lot of energy and time are spent while dating someone, emotions as well as intimacy have been shared. But to put it simply, regardless of the pain, the loss and the disappointment, isn’t this why we actually date people instead of marry them from hello?
Dating is an exchange, both individuals gain from the experience and if it does not work out, they both feel the loss.
I would love to have a dialogue with others on this topic, so what is your psychology on online dating?

i don't agree with our dating pool being a large pool. i feel it's small in the grand scheme of things. Being an invisible femme, i feel its quite small. This is a forum where we gather, and we can get to know each other. There is no place else i can go and be among the BF community.

i do think in any situation its best to cut your losses before continuing if it's "just not working out".

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by girl_dee

i don't agree with our dating pool being a large pool. i feel it's small in the grand scheme of things. Being an invisible femme, i feel its quite small. This is a forum where we gather, and we can get to know each other. There is no place else i can go and be among the BF community.

i do think in any situation its best to cut your losses before continuing if it's "just not working out".

I agree. My dating pool is not large. As my profile states I am a Dominant Stone Butch Daddy, so just finding someone who complements me on these fundamental aspects alone cuts my dating pool way way down down and that is just for starters.

Also, I live in a town of 600 people in a remote area where the closest cities of any size are 4 to 5 hours away.

However that doesn't mean I operate from a scarcity mindset. I have spent long stretches of my adult life single and always take plenty of time in between serious relationships - usually years. I also know from past experience that it is much better to be alone than to be in a bad relationship or one that is not right for me. I live alone and the closest person to me is a good friend who is 4 hours away. I am very self sufficient. So although my dating pool is small I'm fine with that and will only date or be in a relationship that is right for me.

[kittygrrl]

When I have been single I consider real time and online dating perfectly equal and well worth the time and attention you decide to give it. If you meet someone interesting online I don't believe there is so much difference in what you may know....you either find the information you discover intriguing and have fun finding out more or you find you don't have much in common (your choice, with no worry)...Online may be more preferable because certain qualities you are looking for may be more easily understood...If you are a visual person-you may find it frustrating not to tangibly touch the person you are dating....so this medium would not be your cup of tea.

For me personally, I've always found online meeting ever so much more intriguing and interesting...Touching you tangibly would only excite me if you had already turned on my mind..I prefer to take my time and know well in advance if, when and where I want to go there...

[Princess]

Online dating has always been a part of my world. I have met some amazing partners through this medium. Still today, they are a huge part of my everyday world. For me, the dating pool is tiny. Our community here is seemingly non-existent these days. So, if I find someone online who peaks interest I am always willing to put in the time.
I can definitely understand why it wouldn't be someone's cup of tea. It definitely isn't for everyone. I think, there is something to be said for getting to know someone without the immediate physicality of it. The long talks and conversations build a connection that, for me has to exist before anything else. I also think there is something to be said about waiting to meet. The leading up to that point, the longing, there is a romantic aspect to that.
Technology has come a long way since I first started online. Being able to peek in to someone's world at any time tends to help a lot.
Now I am just rambling lol! Subscribing. Love the thread!

[*Anya*]

I only dated someone long distance once. I have nothing negative to say about the experience.

It only lasted a short time but distance was only a part of it. No regrets.

I learned enough to know that a ldr is not for me but totally understand how it can work for others.

After that, I absolutely used an online dating site.

I only dated locally. (I will only date locally again).

My recent longer-term ex was 18 miles from me. I really loved it. I enjoyed the easy planning for dates, the spur-of-the-minute dates, "would you like to go to the beach for lunch today? I can pick you up in an hour". Oh yes!

For me, there is no real psychology in online dating other than: honesty and more honesty; being my real, true self with all of the good and bad; ensure that I write an accurate profile because anything not true will be pretty obvious darn quickly; be truthful, too; if there is no chemistry and you know fairly quickly that it is not going to develop.

I have written before that with my recent ex, I did not read her profile carefully enough. She clearly wrote all of the sports and activities she enjoyed but I first of all, was besotted by the handsome butchness of her picture and secondly, the very best behavior that she reflected when we began to date.

She had not written that she expected me to participate in her love of sports or I may have passed.

Who knows? We can always do Monday-morning quarterbacking after a relationship ends.

I should have done more in the beginning but did not. I spent just under 4 years with her and though I moved out last October; I still have not felt ready to date again yet. It takes me a long time to heal and to feel ready to open my heart again. That is just how I am.

By the time I am ready to date again, hopefully, I will have learned from it and will again avail myself of online dating from an identified online dating site.

Online dating sites are the only places that I have found, that I can sort out the butches from the femmes more easily. Speaking of that: I even put in my profile that I was attracted to butch lesbians and I still had femmes respond. Femmes will always be my best friends but I just do not feel attracted to women that look just like me.

Yin and yang, you know!

A final note: I am also struggling with how I would include that I now have physical health challenges that I did not have when I last dated. Do you include that in your profile? Do you tell someone on the first date? Do you wait until you have had a couple of dates? I am at a loss with this one.

[knight]

I wanted to use a broad term like psychology here because I was interested in the broad perspective of people's philosophy and behaviour towards the concept of dating. Conduct which is governed by ethics, morals and values is certainly part of the general psychology/philosophy to the approach of dating. Thank you for your input.

Originally Posted by *Anya*

I only dated someone long distance once. I have nothing negative to say about the experience.

It only lasted a short time but distance was only a part of it. No regrets.

I learned enough to know that a ldr is not for me but totally understand how it can work for others.

After that, I absolutely used an online dating site.

I only dated locally. (I will only date locally again).

My recent longer-term ex was 18 miles from me. I really loved it. I enjoyed the easy planning for dates, the spur-of-the-minute dates, "would you like to go to the beach for lunch today? I can pick you up in an hour". Oh yes!

For me, there is no real psychology in online dating other than: honesty and more honesty; being my real, true self with all of the good and bad; ensure that I write an accurate profile because anything not true will be pretty obvious darn quickly; be truthful, too; if there is no chemistry and you know fairly quickly that it is not going to develop.

I have written before that with my recent ex, I did not read her profile carefully enough. She clearly wrote all of the sports and activities she enjoyed but I first of all, was besotted by the handsome butchness of her picture and secondly, the very best behavior that she reflected when we began to date.

She had not written that she expected me to participate in her love of sports or I may have passed.

Who knows? We can always do Monday-morning quarterbacking after a relationship ends.

I should have done more in the beginning but did not. I spent just under 4 years with her and though I moved out last October; I still have not felt ready to date again yet. It takes me a long time to heal and to feel ready to open my heart again. That is just how I am.

By the time I am ready to date again, hopefully, I will have learned from it and will again avail myself of online dating from an identified online dating site.

Online dating sites are the only places that I have found, that I can sort out the butches from the femmes more easily. Speaking of that: I even put in my profile that I was attracted to butch lesbians and I still had femmes respond. Femmes will always be my best friends but I just do not feel attracted to women that look just like me.

Yin and yang, you know!

A final note: I am also struggling with how I would include that I now have physical health challenges that I did not have when I last dated. Do you include that in your profile? Do you tell someone on the first date? Do you wait until you have had a couple of dates? I am at a loss with this one.

[kassykit]

I will say that I have dated online for years. Part of my reason for this is I am not very confident in my real life. I also work at a major University in the bible belt!

In my real life I have to put on a mask of self-assurance, calm, and being in control. I hide behind various defense mechanisms to keep the real me from those who would hurt me.

I am a submissive woman. I am attracted to women. I do not care if a woman is butch, femme, or anywhere on that spectrum. I work in a job where I have to appear dominant. I have to be strict. I could never even hint that I am malleable, bendable, and well that i like my partner to "take control." It simply would not be appropriate.

Secretly I crave to find the one woman who doesn't mind my being on my knees so to speak. Someone who is comfortable being the dominant partner in the relationship. Someone who knows the difference between being in charge and being an abusive asshole. (If that makes any sense). So by dating a person online first I can get to know them, well at least the picture they paint of themselves.

I am not a skinny girl. People have told me I am pretty but well I rarely feel that way. I am awkward, introverted, and caring. The face I show to the world is none of those things. I play the role of extroverted PhD Candidate pretty darn well, and I hate it.

Does anyone else just crave for a place, a person that they can just be the person they are on the inside? Here, online, at least I can in the smallest bit. Yes, my ultimate dream is to find myself a partner who is dominant, self-assured, and secure in herself (or if preferring male pronouns, himself).

[knight]

In my case the pool is large mostly to the fact that i live in a very open mostly pansexual town, and i present very masculine.
You are right about it being smaller due to femme invisibility, I totally see that. I think many factors play here, especially visibility and community Thank you for that comment.

Originally Posted by girl_dee

i don't agree with our dating pool being a large pool. i feel it's small in the grand scheme of things. Being an invisible femme, i feel its quite small. This is a forum where we gather, and we can get to know each other. There is no place else i can go and be among the BF community.

i do think in any situation its best to cut your losses before continuing if it's "just not working out".

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by knight

... There seems to be this interesting stigma (again I speak only from experience) when it comes to dating in the Butch/Femme world.
Again regardless of preferences within the dynamic of Butch/Femme… dating seems to be an “ugly” word. ...

Knight, It isn't clear to me what you mean by this. What experiences have you had that led you to feeling that dating is considered ugly?

[CherylNYC]

My own experiences dating someone I met online have been negative. I met two women that way and I doubt I'll try it again. it's easy for a person to present the best of themselves when they sit down to write or speak on the phone, (or Skype or FaceTime), and my usual tools to sniff out a liar or someone who is flat out nuts, for example, aren't deployable until I've already established a connection. At that point the connection, especially when there's already been sexy talk and deep conversation, easily overwhelms my voice of reason. I'm far better able to sense danger in person.

Both of the above failed relationships were with extraordinarily handsome and photogenic butch women who wrote well. Those qualities made them even more attractive online and further disabled my 'sniffer'. I like this community for many reasons. One of the biggest draws for me is that being a stonefemme here is an accepted and an acceptable identity. I'm pretty isolated outside of this little bubble. Even though it would save me plenty of time as well as a world of humiliation and rejection, I doubt I'll put myself out there online again.

[gotoseagrl]

I think what was meant was that sometimes the status of dating - just to feel things out & see how it goes with time - is looked down upon because some people want to skip into the full on relationship expecting everything to be etched in stone from the start. That is unrealistic, in my opinion, and I feel anyone in their right mind would want the chance to let time reveal if its something they really want. Just dating at first can provide that opportunity. And sometimes even after we think we are have it figured out, we can still realize we made a mistake and choose to either stay or move on. Regardless of anything, only time tells. Words arent everything, time and the various situations life presents are.

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Knight, It isn't clear to me what you mean by this. What experiences have you had that led you to feeling that dating is considered ugly?

[knight]

First I am sorry for taking a long time to respond, I had no idea that this thread would have so much interest. I wanted to give people a chance to comment..

What I meant by "ugly" i think from experience that there is a misconception about an individual that is open to dating people online with the understanding that this is a tool to learn about a person. It is not necessarily a tool to find a wife/partner but it can certainly lead to that. I am not speaking here of a person that is cheating or dating several people the same time and lying about it. I speak here about being completely honest with needs, wants, and capacity. Knowing and preparing oneself for having to possibly date several people at different times to find that special person. To me its the "normal" part of dating. Of course this results in hurt feeling and disappointment, but its not an intentional thing. It is simply the result of two people finding out that they are not for each other.

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Knight, It isn't clear to me what you mean by this. What experiences have you had that led you to feeling that dating is considered ugly?

[Lyte]

I'm a tad confused.

If two people are on a "date" or are dating... shouldn't the safe presumption that each is ... in the long run... or at some point... looking for a wife/partner?

Yes, going dates is to learn more about a person but the inherent meaning behind going on a date is that the goal of the parties is to see if they can be ... more than friends. If either individual is not spending time with the other with that goal in mind... can we be more than friends... then that person has an obligation to be make it very clear... this is not a date.

Originally Posted by knight

What I meant by "ugly" i think from experience that there is a misconception about an individual that is open to dating people online with the understanding that this is a tool to learn about a person. It is not necessarily a tool to find a wife/partner but it can certainly lead to that.