Breaking The Stereotype!

[Beau]

I really don't understand how copping to stereotypical behaviors of male (if you're femme) or female (if you're butch) is breaking down any stereotypes at all. If anything, I believe it perpetuates the mindset that behaviors have some gender association.

I'm not trying to be a thread-kill or an asshole. I just. don't. get. it.

my existence is meant to break stereotypes,
Beau - butch, lesbian, woman, human being

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Beau

I really don't understand how copping to stereotypical behaviors of male (if you're femme) or female (if you're butch) is breaking down any stereotypes at all. If anything, I believe it perpetuates the mindset that behaviors have some gender association.

I'm not trying to be a thread-kill or an asshole. I just. don't. get. it.

my existence is meant to break stereotypes,
Beau - butch, lesbian, woman, human being

To me it's not about copping to behaviors, it's about celebrating the fact that these are all parts of me. The traditional and the not-so-traditional...and that's how I break the stereotype...just by being myself.

[Gayla]

Originally Posted by Beau

I really don't understand how copping to stereotypical behaviors of male (if you're femme) or female (if you're butch) is breaking down any stereotypes at all. If anything, I believe it perpetuates the mindset that behaviors have some gender association.

I'm not trying to be a thread-kill or an asshole. I just. don't. get. it.

my existence is meant to break stereotypes,
Beau - butch, lesbian, woman, human being

Beau - My intent was not have have people "cop" to behavior of the opposite gender but to talk about the things they do that could be seen as "un" by other member's of this community. In the past, I've been told I was not butch enough because I have a girly name, have worked in a predominately female profession, like trashy romance novels and play female characters in video games.

None of these things make me "un-butch" or "less butch" although there are many people in our community that think butch and femme are about what someone wears, likes/dislikes, does, says, etc. My point is that it doesn't. As has been often said, even in a dress and heels, I'm still butch.

The things I like and don't like are just personal traits that make me an individual. I think it's important to celebrate those things in a space that does not often do so.

[Beau]

I appreciate your perspective on this, Gayla. I was just responding to how it read to me after viewing a page or so of posts that seem to revert to the "girls play with dolls"/"boys play with trucks" mindset.

I get that it's not okay for some in this community to think of butches as being associated with certain behaviors/activities (and the same for femmes). I still stand by my reaction that it perpetuates the notion that behaviors and activities have a gender association. They don't, and that's the only point I was trying to make.

I appreciate any effort to help others have a more expansive view of gender even if I don't see it happening in this way.

Originally Posted by gayla

Beau - My intent was not have have people "cop" to behavior of the opposite gender but to talk about the things they do that could be seen as "un" by other member's of this community. In the past, I've been told I was not butch enough because I have a girly name, have worked in a predominately female profession, like trashy romance novels and play female characters in video games.

None of these things make me "un-butch" or "less butch" although there are many people in our community that think butch and femme are about what someone wears, likes/dislikes, does, says, etc. My point is that it doesn't. As has been often said, even in a dress and heels, I'm still butch.

The things I like and don't like are just personal traits that make me an individual. I think it's important to celebrate those things in a space that does not often do so.

[Massive]

Have to add this now, My given name is Rose.
I embrace My name, I love it, and does it make me less or more than who I am? Fuck No. It's Me, My name, I love it, My Mum gave it to Me and I wouldn't change a damn thing about it.
Does it change who I am? Nope!
I am who I am, regardless of how I ID, what I wear, what I do in My day to day life ...
If someone thinks less of Me because I enjoy sewing or making jewelry, then it's on their own head, I do what I do because I like it, not because someone who doesn't know Me thinks it's wrong ...

[Jett]

I love shopping... especially for clothes... cause I'm a clothes whore.

It takes me a long ass time to get ready to go out for the eve...

I love long hot bathes

I like specialty drinks like mimosa's and margaritas, made just so. If I get grief from a bud, I like to reply... "nevermind that... we're finally alone..." and wink.

Junebugs make me dance and swear F*@% me! F*@% me! F*@%% me!

... and.. ok...

... I wear eyeliner, something I hadn't done for 20 years... I've been told me eyes are my best feature, so hell... I like it... I don't care.

[AtLast]

Oh, yeah.. clothes shopping, love it! Love clothes and hats!

To be very honest, I do not like men's underwear much at all. Boxer briefs are OK, but I wear girl, cotton, high-cut briefs daily! You couldn't get me in a pair of tidy-whities... well, someone might be able too, but, it wouldn't be for my own sake.... and only once!

I don't pack. I tried it, don't care for it. Again, if requested, I might. But, maybe not.

I do wear some women's clothes mixed in with men’s. Funny, no one ever realizes this...

I shave my legs and underarms. And I can't stand facial hair on myself.

I am neat in terms of my home and can't stand dirty dishes sitting around. And I vacuum every day. Sometimes, twice, I have pets.

I hate working on cars, period!

I iron everything before going out, even if its just touching things up. And I take a long time to dress for a date or some special event. I like to look my best.

I wear a one-piece women's Speedo swim suit. I can't stand to swim in cut-offs and a T. I was a swimmer and played tennis in high school & college, and I'm still serious about doing the strokes right which you can't do with all that damn fabric!

I use tinted cover sometimes. Damn, skin!!!

I don't like to wear cologne. I never liked the smell of it when I was het and with men, so, why would I like it now and on my body?!

I wear regular bras most of the time. I have never bound my breasts and don't want to. I wear sports bras, too.

I can't stand my finger nails to be dirty.

Strapping is great when it is really a mutual desire, but not something I have to do! And I do not like realistic looking dildos. Oh, and I like penetration. So?

I am very, very sentimental and quite sensitive.

I don't hold back emotions. Well, unless I am around people that I don't want to share emotions with.

I carry a pack kind of purse most of the time because I don't like shoving everything in my pockets.

I love to cook.

I hate snakes and spiders.

...... Hummm... this felt good.....

[Venus007]

- I cannot abide pink, sparkly, froofy, frothy, girly anything, and hello kitty should give it up and say good bye. (of course I am speaking from my me place(I live in fear of the kittyites))

-I hate to shop

-I really enjoy working on my car and can do my own breaks and rotors, change my own oil, replace my own starter, I own a timing gun so I can do my own tune ups. The problem is that with the newer cars the computers are a racket designed to make you go to a mechanic, grumble grumble grumble

-I love math and do it in my head to help calm me down if I am tense

-I am rational and logical

-I love being out in the woods alone with my dog (bring on the bugs, dirt and snakes)

-I really like reptiles and have had several for pets not to mention I encourage the wonton breeding of the lizards that live on my porch by setting out trays of mealworms and playing Barry White on the stereo

-I am fascinated by bugs (it's their specialty that gets me) and have a collection of them under glass in a frame in my room.

-I strap and have on packed in public in a skirt none the less

[DapperButch]

Today I was sitting with a client (psychotherapy), and she told me that she was starting a business selling her cross stiching...

I thought back to my cross stiching a picture of a mouse holding a clarinet for my clarinet playing best friend in the 6th grade for Xmas (Mom's idea), and thought...I wonder if she still has that....I will need to call and ask...it is the only thing I ever cross stiched..

...and then I thought....hmmm...maybe I should try cross stiching again...maybe I would like it as an adult...

...then I realized that <cough>, my client had changed topics...

ETA: I just texted my clarinet playing friend....she does indeed still have the tiny 2x3 inch clarinet playing mouse in its little plastic frame. She has saved it all this time...we are now 40 years old!

[ravfem]

Originally Posted by Massive

Have to add this now, My given name is Rose.
I embrace My name, I love it, and does it make me less or more than who I am? Fuck No. It's Me, My name, I love it, My Mum gave it to Me and I wouldn't change a damn thing about it.
Does it change who I am? Nope!
I am who I am, regardless of how I ID, what I wear, what I do in My day to day life ...
If someone thinks less of Me because I enjoy sewing or making jewelry, then it's on their own head, I do what I do because I like it, not because someone who doesn't know Me thinks it's wrong ...

i love it when Massi sends a text and signs it "Daddy Rose", makes my heart melt.

When i told someone Hys name, they responded, "oh, that's a really butch name," and laughed. i didn't understand her reaction because she is very outspoken about people not accepting her as the butch woman she is (and changed her name legally because it was too feminine).

i LOVE that Hy makes jewelry (ok, that could be because *i* am benefiting from that skill) and thank goodness Hy can sew, because i so cannot (and come to think of it, i'll be benefiting from that skill, too!).

And, Hy ROCKS the pink hair, that's all i'm sayin.

Hys proud girl, rhonda

[Heart]

I'm a femme and I fuck women.

[amiyesiam]

Hi I am a femme

I have never, ever, not once, in my life watched a chick flick willingly.
I do not watch lifetime or anything vagina vision like.
I don't watch romantic comedy's, love stories, etc

I am a sci fi, fantasy, action adventure kinda gal

I get ready to go out in 30 minutes

I don't go try on my whole closet to go out
I don't change my mind after I am dressed

I am not afraid of bugs, snakes or mice or rats (most of the time)

My decorating tastes run to simple, dark, basics , what would be considered masculine

I can change a tire


I find this thread very refreshing. I love it when people say this is who I am!!!!!!!!! diversity rocks!!!!!

[Rockinonahigh]

K i'll give it a try...

Being someone else was brave enough to go with real first names,i'll pitch mine out there.It's Mary Michael,most of my frinds and family call me by it tho some will call me Mike hear and there,I get some strange looks in gay bars when someone dose this..it use to bother for some reason,but now what the heck.

I hate spiders big time,if I see them first im ok,if not I sqeel like a girlie girl.

I love to cook and have ovr 60 cook books and colecting as many as I can.

can barely sew a button on but I do the best I can.

I hate to get my hands all messed up u can bet I keep them as nice as possable with hand cream.

I dont do work on cars/trucks even tho I know how.

I colect music boxes,wood carveings,figureines of wolves and eagles as well as have a hugh plate colection hanging at home from all over the world.

Ok now I have at least dented my butch card,but this is me.

[Corkey]

Hi, my name is Corkey and I hate spiders and mice and will climb up my wife to get away from them.
I love to garden and cook, grilling is life (don't judge me)
I am allergic to bees and anything that flies and stings, I will hurt you to get away from them.
I cry when any animal, mostly mammalian is hurt and have to turn away when watching other animals eat each other.
I am a softie when it comes to animals, but will cause a kid to cry if they act up and cause an animal harm.
I can change my oil, fix a flat and diagnose an engine problem. The AF wanted me to be an aircraft mechanic, but I chose to be a feminist and become one of the few (at the time) who were among the first flight to carry and use arms, in combat.
I love books and can do higher math only if interested, and yes I have to be interested to do so.
I cannot paint a flower, but the broad side of the barn looks lovely.
I love to work with my hands, but I cannot sew to save my life, yet can tie a bowline knot, go figure.
Oh and my wife burps louder than me. Hee hee!

[scootebaby]

i usually change 3 or 4 times b4 heading out..even just to hang out

i will model each outfit...checking to make sure it doesnt make my butt look too big

i love getting flowers

i detest sports.....unless there is money involved

[Rook]

Never really thought of those channels that way ......vaginavision.....this should be interesting next time I wonder what subject 'touched by an angel' tackles....or 'golden girls'

If I had a quarter for every time I put up with stares and "butcher-than-thou" gripes, I'd be a fuckin' millionaire...

My high school girlfriend tried teaching me cross-stitch, and crochet...I would literally doze off....but then, she returned the favor by staring off in space when I tried teaching her Chess.....
I don't "cop" to stereotypes, if I like something, I'll do it, try it out, or stick with it...I very rarely do something, or wear something cuz it's "Expected" of me...
Don't get me wrong, I don't wear pastels, flowers or summer dresses -cringe-....But, I don't because that's not comfortable, in the slightest bit for me...Not because I'm stone butch and somewhere in b-f Canon it's etched in "Stone"{no pun} "Thou shalt always wear boxer-briefs, and pleated trousers!!"

I read in an article..there was a Drag King contest, one boi was watching a buncha giggling girls, one of 'em signed up, hy groaned saying "there goes the neighborhood", the girl got decked out, head to toes, looked like a Chicano drag king, pose and all, her friends squealed and she giggled, the boi shook hys head, and when she took to the Stage she actually won, and strutted off...When she got to the gathered crowd of friends, she hopped around squawking, very proud, the boi shook his head, clicking hys tongue & adjusting hys soft pack apparently, the author said "Eventually, hy'll understand"...

♦ I'm almost always entertained by bubbles...If I see one, I'll try to pop it after enjoying the visual...

♦ I lurv Butterflies {and some Moths}, in Old San Juan city there's a store/restaurant called "The Butterfly People", I would go there a lot, sometimes alone, sometimes with company..Most of their walls are covered with a wide variety of Butterflies...

♦ I also luv Angelic Art

♦ Most of my snail mail Will have stickers that reflect the Occasion or the Mood...Sometimes both...And my closest friends know better than to carelessly rip the envelope open...their floor will be covered with confetti of different designs...

♦ I'll spend most of my weekend mornings watching old favorite kiddie cartoons in my PJ's with cereal..{Flintstones, jetsons, Pink Panther, Garfield, Rocko's Modern Life, etc..} Unless I hafta run errands.

♦ While my style of clothing is a small reflection of who I am and how I portray myself, it's not the be-all-end-all...
I'll happily wear fleece pj bottoms with cupcakes -shrug-...

♦ I've had very long hair in the past....I only cut it cuz it's much easier to deal with, and comfortable...Sometimes...~glares @ bangs~

♦ I did try my damnedest not to cry during Hachiko A dog Story.....I did sniffle during Philadelphia....and I was a quiet mess during Schindler's List....

[Daryn]

Originally Posted by gayla

Beau - My intent was not have have people "cop" to behavior of the opposite gender but to talk about the things they do that could be seen as "un" by other member's of this community. In the past, I've been told I was not butch enough because I have a girly name, have worked in a predominately female profession, like trashy romance novels and play female characters in video games.

None of these things make me "un-butch" or "less butch" although there are many people in our community that think butch and femme are about what someone wears, likes/dislikes, does, says, etc. My point is that it doesn't. As has been often said, even in a dress and heels, I'm still butch.

The things I like and don't like are just personal traits that make me an individual. I think it's important to celebrate those things in a space that does not often do so.

Here. Here.

A number (more than 5) of years ago, I got together with a group of b-f peeps around here to go fishing. I asked for help with something and got a raft if crap questioning my butchness and masculinity for asking for help. WTF? The cis-guys I work with ask for help from others when they need it, despite the whole guys never ask for directions (and yeah I will ask for directions rather than get lost or more lost) b.s.

Most cis guys worry about being perceived as male enough by their peers too. Why is it that we cannot just let people be?

[Rook]

K, for starters..
as a Butch...I am not 'just like men', I may be masculine, I may be emotionally TG, but physically I'm a womyn, true...
I don't act like a man, or what society deems is a mans behavior or mannerisms....
If a butch wore a long skirt, with pink blouse & heels, within the butch/femme community there are those who'd find it highly strange of That butch due to the common perception of a Butchs appearance and rejection of the typically feminine attire in favor of much more comfortable Gender neutral and / or masculine attire, nevermind the Reason why said individual wears it {it could be a mandatory uniform, they could be in the Closet, it could even be a cultural issue}...My mother's boyfriend{bio-male} once educated me {shock!!!} when I was 16...there's a difference between man, male, masculine...and woman, female, feminine....
One can be masculine w/o being physically a Man....And feminine w/o being a woman physically {MtF}, male and female are society binary to validate ones absolute Sex, not Gender.
When an individual is Intersex, that theory goes right out the window and makes a few people nervous, since they have no fuckin clue which Box to shove that individual in, oftentimes it won't matter either way, that person will choose for themself.
That stayed in my mind for some time...And every now and then I'll be reminded of it after a comment, remark, or snub...

{♦ Lovin the Femmes list here, almost as much as the Butches....}

[SuperFemme]

I like this thread, and it IS empowering to see how many of you don't feed into those pesky binary gender stereotypes.

That is the whole point, no? How ridiculous it is that a woman who changes oil isn't Femme? Or how a Butch who maybe likes doors held open for her/hym is somehow less Butch?

We are all human beings.

[amiyesiam]

can we all sing She Bop by Cindy Lauper?