Setting the bar high?

imperfect_cupcake · 09-23-2017, 06:53 PM

If you mean "changing the bar" yeah, there are things I've changed in the last five years that I thought were really important and found out were actually just icing things.

1) Dress sense. I do find large urban metropolis metrosexual masculine (dandy wear) to be insanely hot. Just do. Sharp urban dress sense can turn my head on the street, it's pretty much one of the only things that can. I used to think that meant a partner needed at least a bit of that.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
As long as they have some fucking clue about how to iron shirt/jeans (even a high quality tshirt) and wearing good clothes (I mean, things that aren't worn out) and *clean,* and know not to wear a fucking baseball hat, hiking boots, or a polar fleece jacket on a date - then I'm good. Just show me you've taken 20 minutes to try? (environment appropriate of course). Because people showing up looking like they popped on something "this doesn't smell yet" isn't hot. My bar is still higher than that. Yes it's happened. A lot. Vancouver, innit.

2) They need to ID as a butch, and have been IDing for at least 5 years.
I remember why I made that rule, and I think at the time it was OK. I was dating purely from the dash site, and thus only from the US, and it was 1999-2003. I think I got very fed up with people discovering they were butches, that a femme desired them, then running off and shagging every femme that moved in their direction.

Being "My First Femme" was pissing me off at that point.

However, when I moved to the UK the whole ID thing isn't the same puddle as it is in the US. So, I had to change it and drop that bar again. Yes, I put my shingle out again as My First Femme, quite a bit, and yes, that did smart, but I started getting teased by friends that "well babs, everyone has a purpose in life... you sure are educating a lot of newbie butchies lolz" :s
I'd just joke back I took my Butch Conversion Kit with me wherever I went.
It doesn't bother much anymore. I don't really care if people shag other folks, I've never cared too much about that. It's the running off and having new primary relationships that has pissed me off.
But that bar has changed - I no longer care too much about other girlfriends anymore either. As long as I don't get Drama By Proxy (DO NOT pull me into any other relationship drama, I'm not interested, EVER, and it will end ours really *fast*). So I think I'm ok with being My First Femme, still. Hypothetically. I'm not out there presently.

So yeah, bars like that shift. Some are icing (like dress sense) and some are really important questions - Do I take up with newbs? What about open r'ships? What kind?

Kätzchen · 09-23-2017, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imperfect_cupcake

If you mean "changing the bar" yeah, there are things I've changed in the last five years that I thought were really important and found out were actually just icing things.

1) Dress sense. I do find large urban metropolis metrosexual masculine (dandy wear) to be insanely hot. Just do. Sharp urban dress sense can turn my head on the street, it's pretty much one of the only things that can. I used to think that meant a partner needed at least a bit of that.
No, it doesn't, not at all.
As long as they have some fucking clue about how to iron shirt/jeans (even a high quality tshirt) and wearing good clothes (I mean, things that aren't worn out) and *clean,* and know not to wear a fucking baseball hat, hiking boots, or a polar fleece jacket on a date - then I'm good. Just show me you've taken 20 minutes to try? (environment appropriate of course). Because people showing up looking like they popped on something "this doesn't smell yet" isn't hot. My bar is still higher than that. Yes it's happened. A lot. Vancouver, innit.

2) They need to ID as a butch, and have been IDing for at least 5 years.
I remember why I made that rule, and I think at the time it was OK. I was dating purely from the dash site, and thus only from the US, and it was 1999-2003. I think I got very fed up with people discovering they were butches, that a femme desired them, then running off and shagging every femme that moved in their direction.

Being "My First Femme" was pissing me off at that point.

However, when I moved to the UK the whole ID thing isn't the same puddle as it is in the US. So, I had to change it and drop that bar again. Yes, I put my shingle out again as My First Femme, quite a bit, and yes, that did smart, but I started getting teased by friends that "well babs, everyone has a purpose in life... you sure are educating a lot of newbie butchies lolz" :s
I'd just joke back I took my Butch Conversion Kit with me wherever I went.
It doesn't bother much anymore. I don't really care if people shag other folks, I've never cared too much about that. It's the running off and having new primary relationships that has pissed me off.
But that bar has changed - I no longer care too much about other girlfriends anymore either. As long as I don't get Drama By Proxy (DO NOT pull me into any other relationship drama, I'm not interested, EVER, and it will end ours really *fast*). So I think I'm ok with being My First Femme, still. Hypothetically. I'm not out there presently.

So yeah, bars like that shift. Some are icing (like dress sense) and some are really important questions - Do I take up with newbs? What about open r'ships? What kind?

If that's been your experience in your romantic life, Cupcake, then I don't blame you one iota for removing yourself from the dating and/or relationship pool, because what you've described makes my head hurt!

I can't say that I hear you because your experience is nowhere close to any experiences I've had in life.

But I would like to say, consider this: IF we are given an syllabus of course expectations and standards for a college course, THEN it is plausible to believe that if you have to bring your A-game to the college course to pass the course, then that's what ya gotta do, right?

The example I just gave is the closest example I can think of that lands in the same ballpark as...Setting the bar high.

In other words, if we know we got to bring our A-game to pass the course, then bring it or stay home.

Those other things that play a role in having your A-game to be A-game proper?? You know, things you mentioned above, like knowing who you are (are you butch, femme, trans, bi, queen et al?), being self sufficient of your own accord, having your life in order, not thriving on drama or causing trauma? These things are important to the A-game scenario and contribute to "setting the bar high."

My questions (two of them) to consider were as follows: 1)What purpose does it serve (ie, setting the bar high) and, 2) Does setting the bar high guarantee you will have a better chance at finding a lasting relationship?

I'm no therapist and I certainly don't have any definitive answers, but I do wonder at times about this thing called "setting the bar high."

I sometimes wonder if that's what the majority of people in healthy functioning relationships, relationships which have not devolved into throat punching or divorce or other things that are commonly known as deal breakers, tell themselves when they're in a relationship that is working to the satisfaction of both people in the romantic relationship.

Out of all the few experiences I've had, only one of relationship felt really good to me...did I bring my A-game? Not concsiously, but I imagine I was at the top of my game. They liked me a lot, we got along great. We vacationed together and we're very close with each other romantically. But I never once thought of myself as "setting the bar high." See what I mean?

I don't have any expectations for how this subject of discussion will go or flow, but I do know that in order for some sense of order, I'd like for people who respond to think of the two questions I've proposed. Think only of those two things and what it means to you.

Take what you need as food for thought. If nothing works for you, then pass it along to anyone you know who might be wondering too.

Relationships are not uncomplicated. Relationships, romantic or platonic, are as unique as each individual. Romantic love can be a pain in the ass. Love can also be a blessing. And sometimes, love is not enough.

Thanks for your post imperfect_cupcake, I think you asked some great questions and I appreciate your taking the time to share!

imperfect_cupcake · 09-23-2017, 10:17 PM

yeah, I did respond to those questions but I think you just brought up a different and really good point - expectations and lasting relationships.

I think I have changed my "game" altogether. I am not presently in the game because I have other shit to finish with, not because I don't wanna have a toe in.

When I get finished with that stuff, yeah, I'll be open to accepting offers. But my expectations and my entire game has changed. I no longer expect an escalator relationship. That means, I no longer expect me and A will meet, talk, date, start seeing each other, fall in love, make a promise to each other, move in, raise a dog and go on vacations together.

Or hower people have gradual progressive expectations of intimate relationships. I sincerely don't expect mine will last my lifetime. I don't believe that is the statistical average. I think it's extremely rare. So, I don't think it's healthy for me to expect that. I think it sets me up to expect promises that can't be properly kept although sincerely made, and for others to fail on their delivery. It sets up a feeling of failure in my relationships. I think it's unfair and hurtful, those expectations, for me and the other person. So, that's not the game I play anymore, nor is it a bar I am trying to jump over.

That does not mean I don't expect someone's respect, care, loyalty, honesty, and to work at building trust, companionship, and true friendship. I totally expect that. But no, I don't expect the romance and sex to last my lifetime. If it does, that would be awesome.

That also means my A-game - as you put it - with myself has changed completely. What my *self* expectations are are quite different. because I do not expect someone to be there for the rest of my life.

That means I have to be there for me. And it makes accepting other people's ability to only stay three years, five years, or seven years, or nine years a lot easier. Because I have *my* housing sorted out, *my* career sorted, *my* RRSP plans, *my* insurance premiums being paid, *my* friends I love, *my* local community, *my* education plans. So whether someone loves me romantically or not, that is all still there. Nothing falls apart if we decide it's changing to a friendship, or they move to Denmark, or they decide they want to suddenly get monogamously married to my co-worker (seriously, at this point in my life, that wouldn't even surprise me).

So, I have changed my own bar for me. My expectations on what I do, for me.

My first and most important lasting relationship will always be with me. I have to start acting like that's true by taking care of *me* first, by making sure *my* needs are met before I even think of trying to enter into dating again. I don't want to be dating because I'm trying to find security, or affirmation, or stave off loneliness.

So I suppose that's setting my own bar, for me, quite high. and in doing that, I hope to keep certain expectations of certain things from others, low. I still expect honesty, care, companionship. I just don't expect a specific length of time... because how long is a piece of string?

I know that's also not a popular take. I know things that are ok with me are usually deal breakers with others - shag who you want, I don't expect forever, we won't be living together, and I sure as fuck ain't doing your laundry.

But if I like you, it will be utterly sincere, there won't be games, I'm blunt as hell so you'll never have to guess, I'm generous, I'll make you laugh, I'm loyal, and I'll never pressure you. Your decisions will always be yours. I will always respect your privacy. And if you need to talk to me, I will put the friendship between us first, before the romance, always. That's the kind of girl I know I am because those are things I don't have difficulty with and are core to my values.

So I guess, yes. getting to really, really know myself, on my own, has been sorely needed to understand what I need to do for me, so I can bring things that are important to me (deep friendship, independence, self-responsibility, loyalty), rather than what I think most of the population wants (monogamy, promises of long term, interdependence, romance, fidelity, linked security).

Thanks for helping me articulate that.

imperfect_cupcake · 09-23-2017, 10:20 PM

so to answer your second question 2)

No. but the quality of relationship I'm hoping will be much better.

MsTinkerbelly · 09-24-2017, 12:51 PM

Answer to question #1. If I start out with a high bar, users and most losers (in my opinion) are not even an issue.

#2. There are no guarantees in this life...but at least I have given myself a chance to find someone that has qualities similar to mine.

Deborah* · 10-12-2017, 07:31 PM

Yes, I believe in setting the bar high.

I'm consistently working on myself to make sure I achieve my dreams, and I know what's really important is if I want to have a partner, this person will need to be a good fit for me, meaning the same type life goals, lifestyle etc. as myself.

One of my mentors said the five people closest to me color (influence) me the most, and therefore be cautious with choosing friends. How much more so the importance of who I should want for a partner. I know what I'm looking for and I won't settle for less.

Deborah

Amulette · 07-24-2019, 10:58 PM

Setting the bar high:
To establish an expected, required, or desired standard of quality.

To me that sounds like knowing what I want in a relationship. I think that self exploration of what that "bar" is, is necessary, because I would need to know myself intimately to know what I want and need from others.

So setting the bar high would mean to me: being true to myself and the vision I hold for my life. True love would never take me away from that. It would nourish and embellish that, for both of us. On an intellectual even emotional level I say yes, that makes perfect sense.

If only love was that rational. Love is messy. A friend always said to me "we can't control who our hearts choose to love." I have found that to be true. No matter how much someone fits my intellectual vision, if my heart is not 100% in, it's not worth it. If there's not chemistry, it's not worth it. So for me it's the dance of the two. The older I get the more discerning I get. I know myself better.

There is one more thing that I see play out for all the people I know. Where our hearts are damaged we attract people who force us to find healing. It often happens through pain. We attract the same situations in different flavors over and over again. It's like the movie "Groundhog Day". So I have come to believe that the only way to find that juicy satisfying love is the heal my own heart. Do the work. Make your beautiful heart whole again, then see what love brings you. You can't intellectualize that change.

09-23-2017, 06:53 PM	#1
imperfect_cupcake Senior Member How Do You Identify?: feminine dolly dyke Preferred Pronoun?: Your Grace Relationship Status: I put my own care first Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: In a gauze of mystery Posts: 1,776 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,426 Thanked 9,712 Times in 1,611 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	If you mean "changing the bar" yeah, there are things I've changed in the last five years that I thought were really important and found out were actually just icing things. 1) Dress sense. I do find large urban metropolis metrosexual masculine (dandy wear) to be insanely hot. Just do. Sharp urban dress sense can turn my head on the street, it's pretty much one of the only things that can. I used to think that meant a partner needed at least a bit of that. No, it doesn't, not at all. As long as they have some fucking clue about how to iron shirt/jeans (even a high quality tshirt) and wearing good clothes (I mean, things that aren't worn out) and clean, and know not to wear a fucking baseball hat, hiking boots, or a polar fleece jacket on a date - then I'm good. Just show me you've taken 20 minutes to try? (environment appropriate of course). Because people showing up looking like they popped on something "this doesn't smell yet" isn't hot. My bar is still higher than that. Yes it's happened. A lot. Vancouver, innit. 2) They need to ID as a butch, and have been IDing for at least 5 years. I remember why I made that rule, and I think at the time it was OK. I was dating purely from the dash site, and thus only from the US, and it was 1999-2003. I think I got very fed up with people discovering they were butches, that a femme desired them, then running off and shagging every femme that moved in their direction. Being "My First Femme" was pissing me off at that point. However, when I moved to the UK the whole ID thing isn't the same puddle as it is in the US. So, I had to change it and drop that bar again. Yes, I put my shingle out again as My First Femme, quite a bit, and yes, that did smart, but I started getting teased by friends that "well babs, everyone has a purpose in life... you sure are educating a lot of newbie butchies lolz" :s I'd just joke back I took my Butch Conversion Kit with me wherever I went. It doesn't bother much anymore. I don't really care if people shag other folks, I've never cared too much about that. It's the running off and having new primary relationships that has pissed me off. But that bar has changed - I no longer care too much about other girlfriends anymore either. As long as I don't get Drama By Proxy (DO NOT pull me into any other relationship drama, I'm not interested, EVER, and it will end ours really fast). So I think I'm ok with being My First Femme, still. Hypothetically. I'm not out there presently. So yeah, bars like that shift. Some are icing (like dress sense) and some are really important questions - Do I take up with newbs? What about open r'ships? What kind?

09-23-2017, 10:17 PM	#3
imperfect_cupcake Senior Member How Do You Identify?: feminine dolly dyke Preferred Pronoun?: Your Grace Relationship Status: I put my own care first Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: In a gauze of mystery Posts: 1,776 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,426 Thanked 9,712 Times in 1,611 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	yeah, I did respond to those questions but I think you just brought up a different and really good point - expectations and lasting relationships. I think I have changed my "game" altogether. I am not presently in the game because I have other shit to finish with, not because I don't wanna have a toe in. When I get finished with that stuff, yeah, I'll be open to accepting offers. But my expectations and my entire game has changed. I no longer expect an escalator relationship. That means, I no longer expect me and A will meet, talk, date, start seeing each other, fall in love, make a promise to each other, move in, raise a dog and go on vacations together. Or hower people have gradual progressive expectations of intimate relationships. I sincerely don't expect mine will last my lifetime. I don't believe that is the statistical average. I think it's extremely rare. So, I don't think it's healthy for me to expect that. I think it sets me up to expect promises that can't be properly kept although sincerely made, and for others to fail on their delivery. It sets up a feeling of failure in my relationships. I think it's unfair and hurtful, those expectations, for me and the other person. So, that's not the game I play anymore, nor is it a bar I am trying to jump over. That does not mean I don't expect someone's respect, care, loyalty, honesty, and to work at building trust, companionship, and true friendship. I totally expect that. But no, I don't expect the romance and sex to last my lifetime. If it does, that would be awesome. That also means my A-game - as you put it - with myself has changed completely. What my self expectations are are quite different. because I do not expect someone to be there for the rest of my life. That means I have to be there for me. And it makes accepting other people's ability to only stay three years, five years, or seven years, or nine years a lot easier. Because I have my housing sorted out, my career sorted, my RRSP plans, my insurance premiums being paid, my friends I love, my local community, my education plans. So whether someone loves me romantically or not, that is all still there. Nothing falls apart if we decide it's changing to a friendship, or they move to Denmark, or they decide they want to suddenly get monogamously married to my co-worker (seriously, at this point in my life, that wouldn't even surprise me). So, I have changed my own bar for me. My expectations on what I do, for me. My first and most important lasting relationship will always be with me. I have to start acting like that's true by taking care of me first, by making sure my needs are met before I even think of trying to enter into dating again. I don't want to be dating because I'm trying to find security, or affirmation, or stave off loneliness. So I suppose that's setting my own bar, for me, quite high. and in doing that, I hope to keep certain expectations of certain things from others, low. I still expect honesty, care, companionship. I just don't expect a specific length of time... because how long is a piece of string? I know that's also not a popular take. I know things that are ok with me are usually deal breakers with others - shag who you want, I don't expect forever, we won't be living together, and I sure as fuck ain't doing your laundry. But if I like you, it will be utterly sincere, there won't be games, I'm blunt as hell so you'll never have to guess, I'm generous, I'll make you laugh, I'm loyal, and I'll never pressure you. Your decisions will always be yours. I will always respect your privacy. And if you need to talk to me, I will put the friendship between us first, before the romance, always. That's the kind of girl I know I am because those are things I don't have difficulty with and are core to my values. So I guess, yes. getting to really, really know myself, on my own, has been sorely needed to understand what I need to do for me, so I can bring things that are important to me (deep friendship, independence, self-responsibility, loyalty), rather than what I think most of the population wants (monogamy, promises of long term, interdependence, romance, fidelity, linked security). Thanks for helping me articulate that.

09-23-2017, 10:20 PM	#4
imperfect_cupcake Senior Member How Do You Identify?: feminine dolly dyke Preferred Pronoun?: Your Grace Relationship Status: I put my own care first Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: In a gauze of mystery Posts: 1,776 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,426 Thanked 9,712 Times in 1,611 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	so to answer your second question 2) No. but the quality of relationship I'm hoping will be much better.

09-24-2017, 12:51 PM	#5
MsTinkerbelly Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ... Preferred Pronoun?: ... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ... Posts: 6,573 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,737 Thanked 22,902 Times in 5,017 Posts Rep Power: 0	Answer to question #1. If I start out with a high bar, users and most losers (in my opinion) are not even an issue. #2. There are no guarantees in this life...but at least I have given myself a chance to find someone that has qualities similar to mine.

10-12-2017, 07:31 PM	#6
Deborah* Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Relationship Status: single and not looking Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Texas Posts: 354 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 304 Thanked 420 Times in 180 Posts Rep Power: 2658955	Yes, I believe in setting the bar high. I'm consistently working on myself to make sure I achieve my dreams, and I know what's really important is if I want to have a partner, this person will need to be a good fit for me, meaning the same type life goals, lifestyle etc. as myself. One of my mentors said the five people closest to me color (influence) me the most, and therefore be cautious with choosing friends. How much more so the importance of who I should want for a partner. I know what I'm looking for and I won't settle for less. Deborah

07-24-2019, 10:58 PM	#7
Amulette Member How Do You Identify?: Ma chérie, a sweet thing. Preferred Pronoun?: feminine Relationship Status: Following the scent of flowers. Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: La vie bohem Posts: 489 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 544 Thanked 796 Times in 232 Posts Rep Power: 0	Setting the bar high: To establish an expected, required, or desired standard of quality. To me that sounds like knowing what I want in a relationship. I think that self exploration of what that "bar" is, is necessary, because I would need to know myself intimately to know what I want and need from others. So setting the bar high would mean to me: being true to myself and the vision I hold for my life. True love would never take me away from that. It would nourish and embellish that, for both of us. On an intellectual even emotional level I say yes, that makes perfect sense. If only love was that rational. Love is messy. A friend always said to me "we can't control who our hearts choose to love." I have found that to be true. No matter how much someone fits my intellectual vision, if my heart is not 100% in, it's not worth it. If there's not chemistry, it's not worth it. So for me it's the dance of the two. The older I get the more discerning I get. I know myself better. There is one more thing that I see play out for all the people I know. Where our hearts are damaged we attract people who force us to find healing. It often happens through pain. We attract the same situations in different flavors over and over again. It's like the movie "Groundhog Day". So I have come to believe that the only way to find that juicy satisfying love is the heal my own heart. Do the work. Make your beautiful heart whole again, then see what love brings you. You can't intellectualize that change.