Weinstein

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by ksrainbow

https://www.advocate.com/commentary/...lesbian-spaces

Quoting the author:

"Harassment is harassment, no matter the identity of the perpetrator or the victim," -- Chanelle Tyson.

Tysons oped on sexualized harassment is timely because this type of harassment is not localized to males. Females are sometimes perpetrating this type of harassment too.

Thanks for posting the Advocate article, ksrainbow.

[homoe]

In the past week, two women have publicly accused Dustin Hoffman of sexual harassment, allegations which have renewed interest in Meryl Streep’s nearly-four-decade-old claim that her Kramer vs. Kramer co-star introduced himself by grabbing her breast. A Time article from 1979 — the year the film came out — in which Streep recalls auditioning for a play Hoffman was directing. “He came up to me and said, ‘I’m Dustin — burp — Hoffman,’ and he put his hand on my breast,” the actress told Time. “What an obnoxious pig, I thought.”

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by homoe

In the past week, two women have publicly accused Dustin Hoffman of sexual harassment, allegations which have renewed interest in Meryl Streep’s nearly-four-decade-old claim that her Kramer vs. Kramer co-star introduced himself by grabbing her breast. A Time article from 1979 — the year the film came out — in which Streep recalls auditioning for a play Hoffman was directing. “He came up to me and said, ‘I’m Dustin — burp — Hoffman,’ and he put his hand on my breast,” the actress told Time. “What an obnoxious pig, I thought.”

I think these men have more victims then what is portrayed. I'm anxious to see who else speaks up against these men.

[Allison W]

I originally tried to copypasta the article here but it's almost twice the forum's character limit, so I'll just link it. Harvey Weinstein's Army of Spies: The film executive hired private investigators, including ex-Mossad agents, to track actresses and journalists.

[Kobi]

This is becoming an opportunity wasted.

What is being uncovered is a very well known, well tolerated, very deliberate patterns of behavior that is enabled on so many levels and allowed through a conspiracy of silence.

People, in general, seem more titillated about who is going to come forward with what allegations against whom. People, in general, seem less concerned about the behavior itself and how it is used. Is this really an issue that should turn into tabloid fodder?

It doesnt matter to me how many victims Weinsten had or who those victims were. Same with Spacey or Hoffman or Cosby or anyone else.

What matters to me, is that for every predator uncovered, there are hundreds or thousands that remain in place. They are protected by the same system that was willing to give up or sacrifice Weinstein and others while they continue to protect those who have yet to be exposed.

I see a lot of action going on to expel people from guilds and academies and to fire them. That is damage control behavior, not change behavior.

Change behavior is when Jada Pickett Smith reamed the academy for the "lack of diversity". Suddenly, the academy is going to redo the membership to ensure there was more visible diversity, they were nominating films for awards that were on no one's lists, and these films were winning. As I write this, I'm thinking these actions might have been more placating than change oriented. But, it was still a deliberate change.

I am disappointed by some of the actresses who have come forward but been oddly verbal about their experiences. Angelina Jolie is a well known activist and very verbal about the causes that are near and dear to her. Her statement was very subdued.

Meryl Streep can rip Trump a new one without blinking and eye. But, on this issue, the best she has is "Hoffman grabbed my boob once"?

There is an actors union which has been strangely silent. The media isnt even asking them to weigh in. Hello?

What organizations to help women have picked up the ball and tried to run with it? None. Not a single one.

Where is NOW? Where are all these new feminist groups? Do you really think #metoo and social media's waning outrage is changing anything or sprurring any in your face activitists who will not let this be swept back under the rug?

Women who work in or used to work in Congress are coming forward. The Woman's Caucus is nowhere to be found.

Where is the ACLU? Or, maybe women as a whole, comprising over half the population dont have civil rights?

What message is this lack of action and activism sending to predators, victims, potential victims, and society at large?

There is a well known and well documented pedophile ring operating in the entertainment field. It is getting some minor attention in the press for the moment. Hello? Where are the sexual victim police units? Where are all those organizations formed to protect children from sexual exploitation?

I was happy to see the article ks posted about the same types of behaviors occurring in lesbian/queer communities. I wish I could say I was surprised to learn the author didnt have a clue this happened in her own community. Maybe in a few years, when she has more experience, finds a voice, understands the many many ways in which this behavior is shown, experienced, and tolerated, she will write another article about how the community reacted to her when she spoke to the reality.

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by Kobi

This is becoming an opportunity wasted.

What is being uncovered is a very well known, well tolerated, very deliberate patterns of behavior that is enabled on so many levels and allowed through a conspiracy of silence.

People, in general, seem more titillated about who is going to come forward with what allegations against whom. People, in general, seem less concerned about the behavior itself and how it is used. Is this really an issue that should turn into tabloid fodder?

It doesnt matter to me how many victims Weinsten had or who those victims were. Same with Spacey or Hoffman or Cosby or anyone else.

What matters to me, is that for every predator uncovered, there are hundreds or thousands that remain in place. They are protected by the same system that was willing to give up or sacrifice Weinstein and others while they continue to protect those who have yet to be exposed.

I see a lot of action going on to expel people from guilds and academies and to fire them. That is damage control behavior, not change behavior.

Change behavior is when Jada Pickett Smith reamed the academy for the "lack of diversity". Suddenly, the academy is going to redo the membership to ensure there was more visible diversity, they were nominating films for awards that were on no one's lists, and these films were winning. As I write this, I'm thinking these actions might have been more placating than change oriented. But, it was still a deliberate change.

I am disappointed by some of the actresses who have come forward but been oddly verbal about their experiences. Angelina Jolie is a well known activist and very verbal about the causes that are near and dear to her. Her statement was very subdued.

Meryl Streep can rip Trump a new one without blinking and eye. But, on this issue, the best she has is "Hoffman grabbed my boob once"?

There is an actors union which has been strangely silent. The media isnt even asking them to weigh in. Hello?

What organizations to help women have picked up the ball and tried to run with it? None. Not a single one.

Where is NOW? Where are all these new feminist groups? Do you really think #metoo and social media's waning outrage is changing anything or sprurring any in your face activitists who will not let this be swept back under the rug?

Women who work in or used to work in Congress are coming forward. The Woman's Caucus is nowhere to be found.

Where is the ACLU? Or, maybe women as a whole, comprising over half the population dont have civil rights?

What message is this lack of action and activism sending to predators, victims, potential victims, and society at large?

There is a well known and well documented pedophile ring operating in the entertainment field. It is getting some minor attention in the press for the moment. Hello? Where are the sexual victim police units? Where are all those organizations formed to protect children from sexual exploitation?

I was happy to see the article ks posted about the same types of behaviors occurring in lesbian/queer communities. I wish I could say I was surprised to learn the author didnt have a clue this happened in her own community. Maybe in a few years, when she has more experience, finds a voice, understands the many many ways in which this behavior is shown, experienced, and tolerated, she will write another article about how the community reacted to her when she spoke to the reality.

Thank you for this articulate and astute observation Kobi.


In my case, it turned out to be two people in my family, two unrelated incidents with two separate pastors, and in most cases, people who sexually assaulted me were thought of as good hearted people, people you'd never expect in a million years of committing such egregious behaviors.

The mask that these "good hearted" people hide behind is the mask of the social standing in communities, which makes it even harder to Speak out about sexual harassment perpetrated upon the victim (myself and/or others).

I also think it's hard for people to really wrap their minds around the fact that "good hearted" people in ANY community or social groups are guilty of sexual harassment....which makes it all the harder for victims to press charges or speak out about such insidious crimes committed against other human beings.

Thanks for your personal commentary on sexual assault.

I appreciate your ability to grasp the scope and nature of this particular crime.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Kobi

This is becoming an opportunity wasted.

What is being uncovered is a very well known, well tolerated, very deliberate patterns of behavior that is enabled on so many levels and allowed through a conspiracy of silence.

People, in general, seem more titillated about who is going to come forward with what allegations against whom. People, in general, seem less concerned about the behavior itself and how it is used. Is this really an issue that should turn into tabloid fodder?

I think when you say "people" you should really be saying "the media." Because we are only able to know what is being said and done through what is being reported.

OF COURSE they are going to going to go for gossip and titillation-- you have to assume that the men who run every media organization have closets full of exactly these same type of skeletons. They are not going to present this coverage as anything more than a train wreck to gawk at.

This is why the Kevin Spacey story has been covered so disproportionately (IMHO) to the 9 other non-Weinstein straight men who were also busted this month-- it is extra bad, but the same-sex aspect opens a whole different channel, one step removed from the editors who are desperately hoping we'll look in that direction and not theirs.

Originally Posted by Kobi

I am disappointed by some of the actresses who have come forward but been oddly verbal about their experiences. Angelina Jolie is a well known activist and very verbal about the causes that are near and dear to her. Her statement was very subdued.

Meryl Streep can rip Trump a new one without blinking and eye. But, on this issue, the best she has is "Hoffman grabbed my boob once"?

I thought we were all on board with the idea of letting women find their own comfort level when and if they decide to share their story.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

I think when you say "people" you should really be saying "the media." Because we are only able to know what is being said and done through what is being reported.

OF COURSE they are going to going to go for gossip and titillation-- you have to assume that the men who run every media organization have closets full of exactly these same type of skeletons. They are not going to present this coverage as anything more than a train wreck to gawk at.

This is why the Kevin Spacey story has been covered so disproportionately (IMHO) to the 9 other non-Weinstein straight men who were also busted this month-- it is extra bad, but the same-sex aspect opens a whole different channel, one step removed from the editors who are desperately hoping we'll look in that direction and not theirs.

That is an interesting point. I do believe the media operates in such a way as to skew perceptions which in turn skews our understanding as well as our discussions - personal, private and public ones.

As consumers of the media, it is also our choice as to how we interpret things. It is also our choice to question what is being presented, how it is being presented, and why. The media is a tool. What we do with that tool is up to us as people. That has been my point through all my posts.

It is also up to us - as consumers and individual people to pick what it is we choose to focus on in our day to day interactions and discussions. The choices are endless. Do we choose to discuss the realities of sexual assault? Do we seek to enlighten ourselves as to what sexual harassment really means and what it looks like? Do we focus on individual stories? Do we see the bigger picture these stories represent? Do we see common themes across industries? Or, do we choose to keep something a different level?

I thought we were all on board with the idea of letting women find their own comfort level when and if they decide to share their story.

I dont understand what this has to do with what I said. I put things in certain contexts to communicate overall ideas. If the specifics are taken out of context, the meaning is lost.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I am disappointed by some of the actresses who have come forward but been oddly verbal about their experiences. Angelina Jolie is a well known activist and very verbal about the causes that are near and dear to her. Her statement was very subdued.

Meryl Streep can rip Trump a new one without blinking and eye. But, on this issue, the best she has is "Hoffman grabbed my boob once"?

Kobi i am really shocked at this. Do you not realize that "cutting 45 a new one" and speaking about being personally sexually assaulted are not even in the same Universe ?

[tantalizingfemme]

Originally Posted by girl_dee

Kobi i am really shocked at this. Do you not realize that "cutting 45 a new one" and speaking about being personally sexually assaulted are not even in the same Universe ?

My gut reaction is, since when did women owe the world their stories?

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by girl_dee

Kobi i am really shocked at this. Do you not realize that "cutting 45 a new one" and speaking about being personally sexually assaulted are not even in the same Universe ?

When something is taken out of context, the meaning is lost. It can then be mistaken to be something that was never said.