Ask a trans person!

[Esme nha Maire]

Hi all!

I hope some of you gents won't mind indulging my curiosity on this, but the impression I have up to this point is that, in general (and understanding that there is nevertheless wide variation in folk going in both directions) MTFs seem to feel surer of their gender identity earlier than FTMs. So I'm wondering if that is the case - do many of you just know you were actually male from an early age, or is it more often a dawning realisation a little later in life?.

NB: I'm not on about making decisions re surgery - I well understand why one might be hesitant about signing up for FTM surgery - I'm asking only about when one becomes sure of ones gender identity. I ask not merely out of curiosity, but also because in the last couple of months I've become aware of two FTMs in my extended social circle, both of them surprisingly (to me) old. Could be coincidence, but I'm hoping they're acting on innate feelings rather than external pressures, but if innate, I'm surprised they didn't act earlier.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Hi all!

I hope some of you gents won't mind indulging my curiosity on this, but the impression I have up to this point is that, in general (and understanding that there is nevertheless wide variation in folk going in both directions) MTFs seem to feel surer of their gender identity earlier than MTFs. So I'm wondering if that is the case - do many of you just know you were actually male from an early age, or is it more often a dawning realisation a little later in life?.

NB: I'm not on about making decisions re surgery - I well understand why one might be hesitant about signing up for FTM surgery - I'm asking only about when one becomes sure of ones gender identity. I ask not merely out of curiosity, but also because in the last couple of months I've become aware of two FTMs in my extended social circle, both of them surprisingly (to me) old. Could be coincidence, but I'm hoping they're acting on innate feelings rather than external pressures, but if innate, I'm surprised they didn't act earlier.

Hey there! Great question! Did you meant to say MTF earlier than FTM or the opposite? You said MTF twice.

[Esme nha Maire]

Thanks, Dapper - I'm still a bit floaty on painkillers and didnt notice. I meant wondering if MTFs tend to be sure of their gender earlier than FTMs. I;ve now edited my post to correct this.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Thanks, Dapper - I'm still a bit floaty on painkillers and didnt notice. I meant wondering if MTFs tend to be sure of their gender earlier than FTMs. I;ve now edited my post to correct this.

That is what I thought you meant.

Interesting question!

Based on my reading of trans people, historically MTFs were aware of their gender identity earlier than FTMs.

As a gender therapist, I have seen this to be the case, as well. I believe that the reason for this is because FTMs have another identity to describe some of the conflicting feelings...tomboy. There is a word, and identity that they can "kind of" fit into. MTFs only have gay and female.

It tends to be puberty when the boys (FTMs) put it all together. The changes in their body triggers the realization that they are not female. Some even talk about thinking that puberty would "never happen to them because they were a tomboy/other word that is similar".

90% of my adolescents are FTMs. However, I don't think that this points to there being more trans boys than trans girls. I believe it is because the girls are getting therapy earlier. Since I only see kids 14 and up, and the girls are coming out earlier, I wouldn't see them. I can tell you that when I go to trans health conferences, the parent/child section has more than double the little girls (MTF) running around than the little boys (FTMs).

What I do see is that the FTM adolescents do transition earlier than the MTFs. Parents are much more nervous about their trans girls coming out. I see them wanting the girls to hold out until college. Sometimes they will put them on hormones, but they insist that they wait until college to socially transition. College is much "safer". My main goal with the parents of trans girls is to at least put them on testosterone blockers. That I can usually get parents to do because they hear me when I say that their children will have a much harder go of it the more their face masculinizes. Boys I am usually more hesitant about going on testosterone because of the voice change that can't be reversed. I would say that I am much more conservative than the typical gender therapist when it comes to boys getting on to testosterone. Nowadays the parents are ahead of me. Some come in the door almost ready for their trans boys to get on testosterone. This is all because they come in super educated. It is not like it used to be only a few years ago. I don't like Caitlyn Jenner, but she sure did help the trans community when it comes to "coming OUT".

------------------

For myself, I think that finding "butch" as gender is what held me up. I kept telling myself that I wasn't a woman (that my only gender was Butch), but that I was ok with being female (my sex). Female masculinity is somewhat accepted in our culture, so I could essentially live as a "man" (hair, clothing), so it "held me together". I didn't realize how free I would feel after I came OUT and got on testosterone. I didn't realize how much anxiety (social and general), was the reason for my irritability and angst (which unfortunately impacted others), was due to not having the "right hormone" in my body. I am so much more calm and emotionally level now. It really is freaky. I never knew if my clients emotionally leveled out due to hormones or due to anticipation of their body changing. Getting on hormones myself gave me the answer to that question (it is the hormone).

I started out with a small dose because I wanted to make sure it was the right decision. Pretty quickly a thought came to me..."I need the medication in my system...if the outcome of that is that I am masculinize to the point of looking male, then that is what the outcome is". That is how necessary this hormone is to my mental health. (Unfortunately, for the first 6 months I had to jump around to different dosages (long story), so my emotional state was not balanced at all).

Now, of course I am very happy with my changes, and very happy being male, but I think the above points to the power of hormones. And I don't know what evidence could make it more clear that this is a medical condition. Like many who are diabetic need insulin to have a balanced, healthy body and mental state, many trans people need cross sex hormones.

The end. lol

ETA: I started transitioning in my mid- 40's. Based on the several "over 40" trans men FB groups I am on, most of these men came out late in life, as well (mid 40's, early 50's). A very large percentage of them identified as butch lesbians prior to coming out as trans. I still identify with butch as part of my gender identity.

[Esme nha Maire]

Thank you, Dapper. See, what puzzles me is that whilst I know it's certainly not the case for all MTF's to know, from a very early age, as I did, that they are female (I was somewhere in the range 4 to 5 - essentially, I can't recall ever having any sense of gender identity other than female), I get the impression that it's rarer for FTM's to have such strong gender dysphoria at such an early age, and if that is indeed the case, I cannot help but wonder why.

One would imagine that if it didn't take puberty for me to realise that something was horribly wrong (and at that age, I had no concept of sexuality, let alone homosexuality) that the same would hold true for FTMs. I take your point re the tomboy identity (funnily enough, that was kind of how I thought of myself, once I knew that word!) possibly seeming a 'nearest fit' , but as my gender dysphoria was a very strongly physical thing, the social stuff was very much secondary to me, I'm surprised if it isn't so in others, I guess.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Thank you, Dapper. See, what puzzles me is that whilst I know it's certainly not the case for all MTF's to know, from a very early age, as I did, that they are female (I was somewhere in the range 4 to 5 - essentially, I can't recall ever having any sense of gender identity other than female), I get the impression that it's rarer for FTM's to have such strong gender dysphoria at such an early age, and if that is indeed the case, I cannot help but wonder why.

One would imagine that if it didn't take puberty for me to realise that something was horribly wrong (and at that age, I had no concept of sexuality, let alone homosexuality) that the same would hold true for FTMs. I take your point re the tomboy identity (funnily enough, that was kind of how I thought of myself, once I knew that word!) possibly seeming a 'nearest fit' , but as my gender dysphoria was a very strongly physical thing, the social stuff was very much secondary to me, I'm surprised if it isn't so in others, I guess.

I appreciate your return post.

Something that popped into my head as a possibility......

Pre puberty trans girls are looking at something between there legs that don't want there, something that doesn't belong there. They see it, they feel it. There is awareness of it every day. Every time you go to the bathroom, etc.

I think having something you don't want, something you can see and feel that is causing you dysphoria is more powerful than something NOT being there is causing dysphoria.

In puberty, trans boys get breasts. Like the trans girl wants the penis off, the trans boys wants those breasts OFF, like TODAY! Something that we don't want there is more powerful than something we feel is missing.

We hear about trans girls wanting to cut off their penis. It is when trans boys are in puberty that you hear about them wanting to cut of their breasts.

Too, it isn't that uncommon for trans guys to NOT want bottom surgery. And this isn't just about thinking that the bottom surgeries available to men are not good enough (which is a real thing). It is that they just don't have dysphoria (or much dysphoria), in that area. Or they want just minimal surgical reconstruction to ease dysphoria that does no include the creation of a penis, or the closing of the vagina.

However, I never heard a trans guy say he didn't want top surgery (unless they had super small chests...and even then there is only 1-2 times that I have heard/read that).

It's very interesting.

[Esme nha Maire]

- removed in edit. I was being slow-of-thinking. Thank you Dapper, I believe you've answered my question. Hmmnn! Thank you for the insight!

[JDeere]

Have any of yall ever heard of a transman Mark Angelo Cummings?

[Esme nha Maire]

No, but evidently you have and think they are notable. What about them, JDeere? Bear in mind that the object of this thread is for folk to ask transfolk questions about stuff regarding transfolk that they don't know or arent sure about (eg: what sort of effects does HRT therapy have on your emotions? Can anything be done to make a masculine-type voice sound more feminine or vice-versa?).

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

No, but evidently you have and think they are notable. What about them, JDeere? Bear in mind that the object of this thread is for folk to ask transfolk questions about stuff regarding transfolk that they don't know or arent sure about (eg: what sort of effects does HRT therapy have on your emotions? Can anything be done to make a masculine-type voice sound more feminine or vice-versa?).

Im asking because i was watching his youtube channel and he seems ummm off if you know what i mean. I was wondering if anyone else had come across him, to see if other see him the same way as i do.

[Esme nha Maire]

Originally Posted by JDeere

Im asking because i was watching his youtube channel and he seems ummm off if you know what i mean. I was wondering if anyone else had come across him, to see if other see him the same way as i do.

Ok, well, perhaps it may have been better had you said that in your original post, m'dear - we're not mind-readers! :-}

Personally, I don't go trawling Youtube looking for channels by transfolk. I tend to look for channels on subjects that interest me, and for me that tends to be the sciences, history, and lesbianism. Due to the latter, I am aware of a few transfolk out there, and that some of them have some peculiar (and in some cases, downright bad, IMO) notions indeed.

Now, I do not have time to go through that person's channel and see if anything they're saying seems 'off' to me, so it'd be best if you simply explained what it is that you think odd that they've said, JD. I would say, having quickly taken a peek at their channel that it states that "Mark Angelo Cummings is a Two-Spirited human with a Trans history" - and due to that I would urge some caution in comparing them to folk from an ultimately European cultural background.

Whilst I don't pretend to entirely understand it, I am aware that the indigenous American concept of two-spirited people is not identical with the European concept of folk being transgendered. So depending on what it is that they've said that you think is odd, it might just be that you've tripped up on a cultural difference, rather than anything else. So what is it about them that's bugging you, JD?