Butch/Femme Dynamic vs "Masculinity" and "Femininity"

[Martina]

Originally Posted by ardentfemme

“I begin to imagine myself being the woman that a woman always wanted. That’s what I begin to eroticize. That’s what I begin to feel from my lover’s hands. I begin to fantasize myself becoming more and more female in order to comprehend and meet what I feel happening in her body. I don’t want her not to be female to me. Her need is female, but it’s butch because I am asking her to expose her desire through the movement of her hands on my body and I’ll respond. I want to give up power in response to her need. This can feel profoundly powerful and very unpassive.”
— Amber Hollibaugh, “What We’re Rollin Around in Bed With: Sexual Silences in Feminism: A Conversation Toward Ending Them” by Amber Hollibaugh and Cherríe Moraga, 1981

I was just reading this and I wanted to share it. To me, it speaks volumes about the distinctiveness of the b/f dynamic.

That's her experience and perhaps yours. I dare say it's a lot of femmes' experience, but there are femme tops and butch bottoms. There are also many butch femme couples whose sex does not include experiencing the butch partner's need as female.

[Stone-Butch]

I agree with Bulldog. Those who don't might want to read, "Female Masculinity" and then decide if it is male or female or both.

Judith Halberstam is the author

[kittygrrl]

i believe i am at the point where labels, male, female, masculine, etc have only small meanings. I measure the person, consider their ideas and i do not see any good reason for splaying the flesh off and considering (the) why it is or (the) what it means to be this or that..it's enough for me that you are you and i love it...the mystery of how you became you is something we can savor with delightful rapport, whenever you are inspired to share it

[ardentfemme]

Originally Posted by Martina

That's her experience and perhaps yours. I dare say it's a lot of femmes' experience, but there are femme tops and butch bottoms. There are also many butch femme couples whose sex does not include experiencing the butch partner's need as female.

Hi Martina,

Yes, I completely agree with you! I definitely appreciate the diversity of b/f dynamics and I grasp the complexity of gender, especially as it plays out in intimate relationships.

In fact, the quote I cited does not resonate with all my personal experiences. So I understand where you're coming from.

I just liked the quote and the author.

I'm just now parsing the previous posts on this thread and trying to formulate a cogent response. As always, there's a lot to chew on here! For now, though, I'm thinking about the idea of butch as a gender. Quite a few writers have conceptualized it this way (Bergman, Coyote, etc.) and many butches I've known have viewed their butchness in this way - not as mere presentation or expression, but as an innate part of their being. In any case, it's an interesting assertion. I wouldn't claim to know about being butch, since I'm at the very opposite end of the spectrum, but I do find it to be an interesting and potentially useful perspective.