Gender/ID breakdown

Melissa · 06-01-2010, 07:26 PM

I've been thinking about this thread and tracing all the gender IDs I've had over the last 20 years. Here's my ID chain

Gay -> Lesbian -> Lesbian Femme -> stone femme...........

I've noticed that my ID seems to change along with Rufuboi's ID. I was just a plain ol lesbian femme when I met Rufusboi who ID'ed as a stone butch. What's a stone butch, I asked, when we first met. Rufusboi explained. What's a stone femme, I asked. Well, he thought it was a person who dated stone butches. So your now a stone femme, he said. Ok, cool.

Rufusboi is now transitioning and will be going on T. We talked about how he would ID. I asked him will you ID as male, a transman, a FTM. He decided he will ID as a transman. ok, cool.

So now I'm thinking I will change my ID again. Transfemme? Translesbian? Translesbianfemme? Translesbianstonefemme? gaylesbianstonetransfemme?

Oh how I wish for the days of just being gay!

Oh and let's not forget my neighbors think Rufusboi is my husband. It appears, we have just recently discovered, that we pass as a heterosexual couple. Who knew!!!! I'm leaving hetero out of the ID mix though, as its the one thing I've never envisioned myself.

Melissa [the hetero passing gaylesbianstonetransfemme]

Gayla · 06-01-2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melissa

I've been thinking about this thread and tracing all the gender IDs I've had over the last 20 years.

This is why I just went with butch.

My chain is probably just as long but it started with butch and has gone through a bunch of different other things that are butch-related. When I think through all the links in my chain, I think I even confuse myself with some it! All of them have been important and many are still valid today but I can't say they will be tomorrow. I can say, with 99.1% certainty, that the butch part still will be though, so I picked it!

Darth Denkay · 06-06-2010, 11:27 AM

My experience exactly. I started out identifying as butch, then went through a whole series of additional identity tags (butch was always there) and now I'm back identifying as butch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gayla

This is why I just went with butch.

My chain is probably just as long but it started with butch and has gone through a bunch of different other things that are butch-related. When I think through all the links in my chain, I think I even confuse myself with some it! All of them have been important and many are still valid today but I can't say they will be tomorrow. I can say, with 99.1% certainty, that the butch part still will be though, so I picked it!

Rockinonahigh · 06-06-2010, 04:21 PM

I could have clicked several things but I dont need to.Im jus little old me,dont need labels or tags..im a butch and there is no way anyone can miss it.Besides all the labes and tags are confuseing..whay cant we all just be without it all?

JustJo · 06-01-2010, 07:40 PM

Hi Melissa

No snarkiness here, but a genuine question...why do you see your ID changing simply because your partner's ID changes? To me, that feels like the old Mrs. xyz...when a woman's identity, status, etc. was determined by her husband's.

I see the need for gender/ID, a way to describe ourselves...for expediency if nothing else. And let's face it...it's one of the first questions we ask when someone has a baby right? Oooooo....did they have a boy or a girl? It's one of the earliest ways we learn to identify the people in our world. I totally get that not everyone's gender/identity matches their genitals. I am all for everyone identifying themselves any way they feel best represents them.

I guess it just feels weird to me to identify who you are in relation to someone else. Can you talk more about this?

For me, I'm a woman first...lesbian femme second. That's who I am regardless of who I'm with....or if I'm single...or if I'm celibate.

I'd love to hear more about if this change was spurred by any changes within you...or if the changing ID (based on your partner's) inspired any changes in you...if you're willing to share, of course!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melissa

I've been thinking about this thread and tracing all the gender IDs I've had over the last 20 years. Here's my ID chain

Gay -> Lesbian -> Lesbian Femme -> stone femme...........

I've noticed that my ID seems to change along with Rufuboi's ID. I was just a plain ol lesbian femme when I met Rufusboi who ID'ed as a stone butch. What's a stone butch, I asked, when we first met. Rufusboi explained. What's a stone femme, I asked. Well, he thought it was a person who dated stone butches. So your now a stone femme, he said. Ok, cool.

Rufusboi is now transitioning and will be going on T. We talked about how he would ID. I asked him will you ID as male, a transman, a FTM. He decided he will ID as a transman. ok, cool.

So now I'm thinking I will change my ID again. Transfemme? Translesbian? Translesbianfemme? Translesbianstonefemme? gaylesbianstonetransfemme?

Oh how I wish for the days of just being gay!

Oh and let's not forget my neighbors think Rufusboi is my husband. It appears, we have just recently discovered, that we pass as a heterosexual couple. Who knew!!!! I'm leaving hetero out of the ID mix though, as its the one thing I've never envisioned myself.

Melissa [the hetero passing gaylesbianstonetransfemme]

Melissa · 06-01-2010, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJo

Hi Melissa

No snarkiness here, but a genuine question...why do you see your ID changing simply because your partner's ID changes? To me, that feels like the old Mrs. xyz...when a woman's identity, status, etc. was determined by her husband's.

I see the need for gender/ID, a way to describe ourselves...for expediency if nothing else. And let's face it...it's one of the first questions we ask when someone has a baby right? Oooooo....did they have a boy or a girl? It's one of the earliest ways we learn to identify the people in our world. I totally get that not everyone's gender/identity matches their genitals. I am all for everyone identifying themselves any way they feel best represents them.

I guess it just feels weird to me to identify who you are in relation to someone else. Can you talk more about this?

For me, I'm a woman first...lesbian femme second. That's who I am regardless of who I'm with....or if I'm single...or if I'm celibate.

I'd love to hear more about if this change was spurred by any changes within you...or if the changing ID (based on your partner's) inspired any changes in you...if you're willing to share, of course!

Justjo - A lot of what I said is tongue- in- cheek. I don't think any of these words/IDs can fully express who we are in terms of biology, gender and sexuality.

If I had to pick one, it would be lesbian. Nothing else. Even partnered to a transman I still think of myself as a lesbian. In fact, I laughingly said to Rufusboi, you will be a transman married to a lesbian.

I am really wondering why we have all these gender IDs and what purpose they serve for us as individuals or as a larger community? We seem to argue about them more than anything else and we do not have one way of defining any of them.

Rufusboi picked transman after a lot of thought about how T will change him physically, how he thinks of himself in terms of gender, and also how he defines the terms male and FTM. Other people on this site define transman, male, and FTM totally differently than he does. I actually think he could easily adopt any of these terms to represent who he will be on T. He does not, he has a more set way of viewing and defining these terms. So my post above is more about how really effective are these terms?

Melissa [the anti-stepford wife]

Corkey · 06-01-2010, 08:37 PM

[QUOTE=Melissa;119861]Justjo - A lot of what I said is tongue- in- cheek. I don't think any of these words/IDs can fully express who we are in terms of biology, gender and sexuality.

If I had to pick one, it would be lesbian. Nothing else. Even partnered to a transman I still think of myself as a lesbian. In fact, I laughingly said to Rufusboi, you will be a transman married to a lesbian.

I am really wondering why we have all these gender IDs and what purpose they serve for us as individuals or as a larger community? We seem to argue about them more than anything else and we do not have one way of defining any of them. So you would negate all other gender labels but transman and lesbian? I mean if you are happy in your ID, why not give everyone who isn't lesbian or transman their due. As long as you are happy right?

Rufusboi picked transman after a lot of thought about how T will change him physically, how he thinks of himself in terms of gender, and also how he defines the terms male and FTM. Other people on this site define transman, male, and FTM totally differently than he does. I actually think he could easily adopt any of these terms to represent who he will be on T. He does not, he has a more set way of viewing and defining these terms. So my post above is more about how really effective are these terms?

Melissa [the anti-stepford wife]

The reason we have all these gender labels is because this is how this community see themselves. Each and every one of them need to be honored.
Corkey, the one who will honor everyone's ID even if he blows a gaskit.

Melissa · 06-01-2010, 08:50 PM

[quote=Corkey;119877]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melissa

Justjo - A lot of what I said is tongue- in- cheek. I don't think any of these words/IDs can fully express who we are in terms of biology, gender and sexuality.

If I had to pick one, it would be lesbian. Nothing else. Even partnered to a transman I still think of myself as a lesbian. In fact, I laughingly said to Rufusboi, you will be a transman married to a lesbian.

I am really wondering why we have all these gender IDs and what purpose they serve for us as individuals or as a larger community? We seem to argue about them more than anything else and we do not have one way of defining any of them. So you would negate all other gender labels but transman and lesbian? I mean if you are happy in your ID, why not give everyone who isn't lesbian or transman their due. As long as you are happy right?

Rufusboi picked transman after a lot of thought about how T will change him physically, how he thinks of himself in terms of gender, and also how he defines the terms male and FTM. Other people on this site define transman, male, and FTM totally differently than he does. I actually think he could easily adopt any of these terms to represent who he will be on T. He does not, he has a more set way of viewing and defining these terms. So my post above is more about how really effective are these terms?

Melissa [the anti-stepford wife]

The reason we have all these gender labels is because this is how this community see themselves. Each and every one of them need to be honored.
Corkey, the one who will honor everyone's ID even if he blows a gaskit.

Corkey - I do not negate any IDs. Lesbian and transman are just two of many gender IDs. They do not warrant any more due than any other ID. To me, all Ids are equal. I think you misunderstood my post. It is very hard to communicate ideas and tone online.

Thanks for answering my question about why you think we have gender IDs.

Melissa

Corkey · 06-01-2010, 09:11 PM

[quote=Melissa;119888]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corkey

Corkey - I do not negate any IDs. Lesbian and transman are just two of many gender IDs. They do not warrant any more due than any other ID. To me, all Ids are equal. I think you misunderstood my post. It is very hard to communicate ideas and tone online.

Thanks for answering my question about why you think we have gender IDs.

Melissa

You're welcome, and yes trying to convey gender labels often gets muddled.

ETA: No one asked for more, due just equal due.

Galahad · 06-01-2010, 09:16 PM

I clicked genderqueer. I really have a hard time with all the labels, nothing fits exactly. I like what someone here said once, about being liminal, I feel like I'm in a hallway with my foot and hands pushing against as many doors at once as I can manage. Multi thresholds. Liminal queer is a better word for me than genderqueer.

View Poll Results: How do you ID?
Lesbian/Femme	34	17.00%
Queer/Femme	27	13.50%
Femme	9	4.50%
Butch/Lesbian/Woman	19	9.50%
Queer/Butch (female-ID)	3	1.50%
Queer/Butch (male-ID)	4	2.00%
Butch	14	7.00%
FTM/Transguy	21	10.50%
Androgenous	0	0%
Other/no ID	7	3.50%
MTF/Transwoman	0	0%
Queer	6	3.00%
Stone Femme Queer	9	4.50%
Stone Femme Lesbian	4	2.00%
Stone Femme	4	2.00%
Stone Butch	8	4.00%
Stone Butch Lesbian	0	0%
Stone Butch Queer	2	1.00%
Queer Girl (Woman)	6	3.00%
Queer Boy/Boi (Man)	0	0%
Transgendered Male Id'd Butch Human	6	3.00%
Bi-Gender	2	1.00%
Intersexed	1	0.50%
genderqueer	7	3.50%
Transgender Stone Butch	7	3.50%
Voters: 200. You may not vote on this poll

06-01-2010, 08:37 PM	#7
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	[QUOTE=Melissa;119861]Justjo - A lot of what I said is tongue- in- cheek. I don't think any of these words/IDs can fully express who we are in terms of biology, gender and sexuality. If I had to pick one, it would be lesbian. Nothing else. Even partnered to a transman I still think of myself as a lesbian. In fact, I laughingly said to Rufusboi, you will be a transman married to a lesbian. I am really wondering why we have all these gender IDs and what purpose they serve for us as individuals or as a larger community? We seem to argue about them more than anything else and we do not have one way of defining any of them. So you would negate all other gender labels but transman and lesbian? I mean if you are happy in your ID, why not give everyone who isn't lesbian or transman their due. As long as you are happy right? Rufusboi picked transman after a lot of thought about how T will change him physically, how he thinks of himself in terms of gender, and also how he defines the terms male and FTM. Other people on this site define transman, male, and FTM totally differently than he does. I actually think he could easily adopt any of these terms to represent who he will be on T. He does not, he has a more set way of viewing and defining these terms. So my post above is more about how really effective are these terms? Melissa [the anti-stepford wife] The reason we have all these gender labels is because this is how this community see themselves. Each and every one of them need to be honored. Corkey, the one who will honor everyone's ID even if he blows a gaskit. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

06-01-2010, 07:26 PM	#1
Melissa Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: married Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 269 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 262 Thanked 587 Times in 195 Posts Rep Power: 2134101	I've been thinking about this thread and tracing all the gender IDs I've had over the last 20 years. Here's my ID chain Gay -> Lesbian -> Lesbian Femme -> stone femme........... I've noticed that my ID seems to change along with Rufuboi's ID. I was just a plain ol lesbian femme when I met Rufusboi who ID'ed as a stone butch. What's a stone butch, I asked, when we first met. Rufusboi explained. What's a stone femme, I asked. Well, he thought it was a person who dated stone butches. So your now a stone femme, he said. Ok, cool. Rufusboi is now transitioning and will be going on T. We talked about how he would ID. I asked him will you ID as male, a transman, a FTM. He decided he will ID as a transman. ok, cool. So now I'm thinking I will change my ID again. Transfemme? Translesbian? Translesbianfemme? Translesbianstonefemme? gaylesbianstonetransfemme? Oh how I wish for the days of just being gay! Oh and let's not forget my neighbors think Rufusboi is my husband. It appears, we have just recently discovered, that we pass as a heterosexual couple. Who knew!!!! I'm leaving hetero out of the ID mix though, as its the one thing I've never envisioned myself. Melissa [the hetero passing gaylesbianstonetransfemme]

06-06-2010, 04:21 PM	#4
Rockinonahigh Senior Member How Do You Identify?: stone butch Preferred Pronoun?: makes no diffrence,I know who I am. Relationship Status: single,maybe looking if the right person comes along. Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 4,907 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,682 Thanked 14,933 Times in 3,938 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	I could have clicked several things but I dont need to.Im jus little old me,dont need labels or tags..im a butch and there is no way anyone can miss it.Besides all the labes and tags are confuseing..whay cant we all just be without it all?

06-01-2010, 09:16 PM	#10
Galahad Member How Do You Identify?: do I have to? Relationship Status: single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: I.E. Southern California Posts: 425 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,300 Thanked 339 Times in 151 Posts Rep Power: 1446604	I clicked genderqueer. I really have a hard time with all the labels, nothing fits exactly. I like what someone here said once, about being liminal, I feel like I'm in a hallway with my foot and hands pushing against as many doors at once as I can manage. Multi thresholds. Liminal queer is a better word for me than genderqueer.