Transgender People in the Military

[DapperButch]

Hi, folks. I decided to make a separate thread on this topic, rather than just updating in the "Trans News" thread, as I believe this will be ongoing.

"Last we heard", Trump wanted to kick us out, but 4 federal courts ruled against the ban. Subsequently, things continued on and individuals were able to continue to sign up.

Trump is at it again with another tweet, most likely as a way to shift the focus from the two most recent women who have come out saying they had an affair with him.

Based on what I have read (one of the articles here: https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/pol...Z0J/story.html), unless you have been deemed as stable (defined as no symptoms of gender dysphoria over the past 18 months), you are not allowed to enter.
People who have not yet had any treatment (hormones, surgeries), and continue to have "gender dysphoria" (I assume they mean the "diagnosis" specifically), are not allowed in. Looks like they are seeing Gender Dysphoria as a mental illness and also have this crazy thinking that "transition" (I am assuming surgeries), will cost them massive amounts of money they are avoiding...or you know, it could just be discrimination.

SOOOO, I guess the way to "get in" is to have any surgeons you want completed, show proof of being on your hormones for 18 months (you have to be on hormones for 12 months before any lower surgery, anyway), and have a "medical professional" (per the above article), say you no longer have any symptoms of gender dysphoria. It appears as though the person can still take hormones in the military. Huckabee Sanders said something about following medical standards, and many cis men take testosterone.

The above proposed policy was written in December 2017.

Fortunately, since the 4 federal courts have ruled against the ban, things should continue to carry on.

"Earlier Friday, Maj. David Eastburn, a Pentagon spokesman, said the announcement of a new policy would have no immediate practical effect on the military because the Pentagon is obliged to continue to recruit and retain transgender people in accordance with current law."

So, yeah...that is the latest.

I actually feel that this will be ok. I just don't see federal courts reversing things. And big picture, it is much easier for many people to get surgeries due to insurance paying for it. More states are requiring all employers in their state to provide trans health coverage for their employees (minus self insured companies). The KICKER though, is that some states (proud of mine!), is now requiring Medicaid to cover it, as well. And Medicare has been covering it for a number of years now. It used to be hard to find a surgeon who would take Medicare, but with more and more university hospital systems starting surgical trans health programs, people with Medicare have greater access to surgeries.

It is not uncommon for trans people to move to states where they can either get private insurance that will pay for surgeries, or most often to states where Medicaid will cover it. Not only are more states requiring to have coverage, but many more are at least saying trans coverage can't be "excluded" in policies. This gives people a way to at least fight for their surgeries to be covered. Too, there has started to be groups out there who will help guide people as to how to fight their insurance.

So, progress for coverage continues to move forward at least outside the military.

Since this just "came out", it is possible the small number of articles that I have read on the subject are not completely accurate on the nuances of this policy. Please feel free to correct anything I stated above.

[Andrea]

I believe the reason Dear Leader has brought this up again is both as you say to distract from other news and as a way to retain his standing with the Evangelical Christians. He needs someone to feed his ego.

While the stated provisions appear tolerable, they are not fair. No one should have to wait to join the military until they are certain they have completed all medically necessary surgeries and therapy.

I have known people that didn't understand they were trans until later in life and I know people that have no desire to have all the surgeries others have had. At what point are they considered done? What if they change their minds later and want an additional surgery or when a surgery they are comfortable with comes along?

And not everyone needs 18 months of therapy to know they are transgender and want to transition.

Transgender people are just people with regular medical needs. They should be treated like any other person that joins the service or is in the service.

I am most certainly not an expert and can only base my thoughts on people I know and things I read, so please feel free to correct me if I have interpreted the requirements incorrectly or misunderstand the needs of anyone wanting to transition.

[DapperButch]

yep. Yep. YEP! Wonderfully, written post!

Originally Posted by Andrea

I believe the reason Dear Leader has brought this up again is both as you say to distract from other news and as a way to retain his standing with the Evangelical Christians. He needs someone to feed his ego.

While the stated provisions appear tolerable, they are not fair. No one should have to wait to join the military until they are certain they have completed all medically necessary surgeries and therapy.

I have known people that didn't understand they were trans until later in life and I know people that have no desire to have all the surgeries others have had. At what point are they considered done? What if they change their minds later and want an additional surgery or when a surgery they are comfortable with comes along?

And not everyone needs 18 months of therapy to know they are transgender and want to transition.

Transgender people are just people with regular medical needs. They should be treated like any other person that joins the service or is in the service.

I am most certainly not an expert and can only base my thoughts on people I know and things I read, so please feel free to correct me if I have interpreted the requirements incorrectly or misunderstand the needs of anyone wanting to transition.

[Andrea]

Bumpity Bump!

[DapperButch]

This article talks about how it is Pence that set Trump to ban trans people in the military. Mattis's February report said they should stay, but Pence changed things up.

https://thinkprogress.org/pence-resp...-f4d3b67bde47/


"When President Trump announced a new ban on transgender people serving in the military late Friday, it was somewhat of a surprise — Defense Secretary Jim Mattis had reportedly recommended in February that Trump allow transgender people to serve. It turns out that Vice President Pence and some of the country’s most prominent anti-LGBTQ activists had a role in reversing the outcome, which explains why the report explaining the decision is rife with anti-trans junk science.

Slate’s Mark Joseph Stern reported Friday night that, according to multiple sources, Pence played “a leading role” in creating the report, along with Ryan T. Anderson of the Heritage Foundation, which has been dubbed “Trump’s favorite think tank,” and Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council (FRC), an anti-LGBTQ hate group. Both Heritage and FRC praised the report Friday. According to Stern’s reporting, it was true that Mattis favored allowing transgender military service, but Pence “effectively overruled” him."

[Femmewench]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

It turns out that Vice President Pence and some of the country’s most prominent anti-LGBTQ activists had a role in reversing the outcome, which explains why the report explaining the decision is rife with anti-trans junk science.

Slate’s Mark Joseph Stern reported Friday night that, according to multiple sources, Pence played “a leading role” in creating the report, along with Ryan T. Anderson of the Heritage Foundation, which has been dubbed “Trump’s favorite think tank,” and Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council (FRC), an anti-LGBTQ hate group. Both Heritage and FRC praised the report Friday. According to Stern’s reporting, it was true that Mattis favored allowing transgender military service, but Pence “effectively overruled” him."

And this is why I want Trump to remain in office until 2021. Unless he, Pence and the next six people in line for the presidency all go at the same time, it can be worse than Trump. He's just crazy and has no political savvy. The next seven people in line for his job have the political savvy along with the security of their righteousness of their beliefs to try and eradicate all gains which have been made in the last 60 years.

[DapperButch]

From the TransAdvocate (whole article):

Military Ban is stayed, once again

In yet another rebuke of President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence, a federal judge has once again barred the implementation of the administration’s ban on transgender people serving openly in the United States Military.

The Government had been arguing that their ban on transgender service members was a new one, claiming that the previous ban was revoked, and the new ban replaced it fully. In reviewing the ban, however, U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman disagreed, declaring that the new ban, “did not substantively rescind or revoke the ban, but instead threaten the very same violations that caused it and other courts to enjoin the ban in the first place.”

In reaching this decision, Judge Pechman went a step further, declaring that transgender people themselves were a protected class and that the actions against the military ban issued in December of last year should remain in place.

In discussing the history of discrimination faced by transgender people in the face of this ban, Judge Pechman said, “the history of discrimination and systemic oppression of transgender people in this country is long and well-recognized. Transgender people have suffered and continue to suffer endemic levels of physical and sexual violence, harassment, and discrimination in employment, education, housing, criminal justice, and access to health care.” Meanwhile, Judge Pechman also concluded that “discrimination against transgender people clearly is unrelated to their ability to perform and contribute to society.

Meanwhile, Judge Pechman did not focus on the current justifications of the ban, largely due to the haste in which they were presented to her. While lawmakers are questioning exactly who is behind the current version of the ban, Judge Pechman essentially left this up to the President himself.

“As no other persons have ever been identified by defendants — despite repeated court orders to do so — the court is led to conclude that the ban was devised by the president and the president alone,” said Judge Pechman.

It is widely believed that the ban may have come from Vice President Pence, and was drafted with the assistance of Ryan T. Anderson of the Heritage Foundation and Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council.

While we are far from seeing an end to the efforts of this administration against transgender service members — and all transgender people — this ruling is a significant setback on the current ban, and may point to further difficulties in the courts. It also points to how vital it is that attempts to fill the courts with religious fundamental judges need to continue to be resisted.

http://transadvocate.com/gender-nati...-2_n_22362.htm

[Kätzchen]

*** bumpity bump ***

Any new news Dapper or Andrea???

Thanks for this thread about VA news and Trans rights for those serving in the military.

--K.

[MrSunshine]

Ugh. He is so exhausting. I feel for the Trans folk already in and those wanting in. I believe it is only going to get worse.

What also makes me sick, is I knew Hitler would build his own Military Force although he says it's for an Outer Space Force? WTF! I would like to Force something from outer space, well you know.
Then this dipshitery about becoming Pres for life! Yeah, I saw him get aroused when XI Jinping did that crap in China. Ugly image, sorry for that.
I just feel like people keep boarding the trains to Auschwitz.
Apologies for getting off topic a bit.

[dark_crystal]

71% of 17-24 year-olds are ineligible to serve.

Recruitment is down.

The number of transgender people who want to serve has to be vanishingly small-- so small that any conceivable impact they will have is statistically insignificant.

To be picking nits about gender identity among willing and qualified potential recruits makes the whole thing performative.

They do not care one bit about the actual military-- they care about exerting theocratic power.

The fact that this issue has now been thrown at the wall four(?) times since 45's inauguration is unconscionable.

It's terrorism. They are singling out a very small, very vulnerable population for periodic ritual public menacing just to show that they can-- just to wink at theocrats and remind them Pence is pulling for them.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

71% of 17-24 year-olds are ineligible to serve.

Recruitment is down.

The number of transgender people who want to serve has to be vanishingly small-- so small that any conceivable impact they will have is statistically insignificant.

To be picking nits about gender identity among willing and qualified potential recruits makes the whole thing performative.

They do not care one bit about the actual military-- they care about exerting theocratic power.

The fact that this issue has now been thrown at the wall four(?) times since 45's inauguration is unconscionable.

It's terrorism. They are singling out a very small, very vulnerable population for periodic ritual public menacing just to show that they can-- just to wink at theocrats and remind them Pence is pulling for them.

I love the way you weaved these thoughts together. Spot on.

Interestingly, studies show that trans people are twice as likely to join the military than cis people. It can be described as a "flight into hypermasculinity". For trans women, it is a last ditch effort to try to live as male. I can say that I have seen this in my own clinical practice. A larger percentage of trans women I work with have been in the military than the cis people I have worked with over the years. I can't say the same for trans men, I have my own theories as to why, but I haven't seen any studies saying there is a higher percentage of trans women having a history in the military than trans men.

---------------

Katzchen, there is nothing new. Trans people are still currently allowed to join. I don't know what is happening with their surgeries being authorized, but I assume they still are for those who want surgery.