Butch Femme Planet  

Go Back   Butch Femme Planet > GENDER AND IDENTITY > The Femme Zone

The Femme Zone For all things "Femme"

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-25-2009, 12:40 PM   #1
Jess
Timed Out - Permanent

How Do You Identify?:
decidedly indifferent
Preferred Pronoun?:
other
 
Jess's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Patrick Springs, VA
Posts: 2,812
Thanks: 9,247
Thanked 5,700 Times in 1,682 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Jess Has the BEST ReputationJess Has the BEST ReputationJess Has the BEST ReputationJess Has the BEST ReputationJess Has the BEST ReputationJess Has the BEST ReputationJess Has the BEST ReputationJess Has the BEST ReputationJess Has the BEST ReputationJess Has the BEST ReputationJess Has the BEST Reputation
Default

I always thought the progression was " maiden( nymph), warrior, Queen, Crone.
The four major segments of ones life. This could be also in the male, perhaps.. boy( son), warrior, king, elder( sage/ crone).
Wars are fought by warriors, either in the trenches or in our own communities. We see our young ( 20 somethings ) warriors being the ones forging new definitions for themselves and demanding to no longer be viewed by our older terms. Warriors create a new language and wear a new armor, while our "queens/ kings" attempt to incorporate the new into their vocabulary and our crones/ elders watch with contemplative pleasure, knowing all is as it should be.

I love the term Crone as I sit in my King/ Queen stage looking both behind and ahead. I look forward to the peace that comes after releasing the hold I still have on my "warrior" years.

Thanks.. good food for thought!
Jess is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jess For This Useful Post:
Old 11-25-2009, 04:41 PM   #2
Bit
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
Stonefemme
Relationship Status:
married to Gryph
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 2,177
Thanks: 1,126
Thanked 3,770 Times in 1,264 Posts
Rep Power: 10778870
Bit Has the BEST ReputationBit Has the BEST ReputationBit Has the BEST ReputationBit Has the BEST ReputationBit Has the BEST ReputationBit Has the BEST ReputationBit Has the BEST ReputationBit Has the BEST ReputationBit Has the BEST ReputationBit Has the BEST ReputationBit Has the BEST Reputation
Default a Women's Spirituality/Eclectic Pagan take on Crones

Ah, I learned that saying differently Jess, "Maiden Mother Warrior Crone"--and only Maiden tied to a specific age range. We're all different, eh?

So Dusa, "Crone" is the same word as "Crow" and it's tempting to think of it disrespectfully, yanno, old women in widow's weeds (black from head to toe), those raucous and troublesome "old crows" clustered around the village wells...

What people forget is that "Crone" and "Crow" are also the same word as "Crown." We were originally talking about the rightful tribal rulers, eh? The person who, in modern times, would be a Queen--and there was no male equivalent, since kings are a later invention, so we are talking about the ultimate power and authority in the land being vested only in female-bodied people.

Although the Greek image of Athena and Her Bird is indelible in our culture today, owls are not the only birds of wisdom. Tis the European Goddess's Sacred Crow who crowns a woman with wisdom and makes her a crone.

I'm so glad you included Butches in the discussion, because I have lived with two Butches who considered themselves Crones, and deservedly so--and I know there are many more.

That said, I must say that associating the image of power--a Crowned Woman with a Sacred Crow on her shoulder, reigning authority and avatar of the Goddess Herself for an entire people--associating that image with Femmes makes me glow inside. I love this reclamation of a term for ancient power by our largely invisible population which has difficulties being perceived by society as powerful in any way. Yes, let us take this word back; let us restore the image it once carried!

Today, Crone is generally acknowledged as "a woman fifty (sometimes 52) or over who has the benefit of a lifetime's experience and hard-learned wisdom to share," and it's most often used in the Pagan, Wiccan, Women's Spirituality, and Queer/Lesbian communities.

For me personally, a Crone is someone--no matter her age--who is allied with the Hag Goddesses, Hecate, Bridey, Mother Holle, Hel, Hurta, etc--all those ugly old-woman goddesses who were originally the power of the Earth Herself brought to vivid life in the most powerful image our ancestors could conceive: an old Crone, crowned with age and wisdom, leading the people safely through feast and famine alike.

How appropriate She comes to you now, at the beginning of Her Season of Snow. May She bless you abundantly with love and warmth, with family and happiness, and may She see you through the years with love and gentle care.
Bit is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bit For This Useful Post:
Old 11-25-2009, 10:40 PM   #3
Arwen
Joy Seeker

How Do You Identify?:
Smartly-Flavored
Preferred Pronoun?:
Goddess
Relationship Status:
Mrs. Syzygy 1/9/14
 
Arwen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Joyville, NM (aka Land of Enchantment)
Posts: 10,140
Thanks: 13,636
Thanked 28,119 Times in 6,414 Posts
Rep Power: 21474862
Arwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyrJess View Post
I always thought the progression was " maiden( nymph), warrior, Queen, Crone.
The four major segments of ones life. This could be also in the male, perhaps.. boy( son), warrior, king, elder( sage/ crone).

SyrJess, this is an interesting four that correlates back to the Tarot in a way.

In traditional Tarot decks there are four court cards. Usually they are the Page, the Knight, the Queen, the King.

I can see a feminine four there as well as a masculine four. Thanks for this thought!
Arwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2009, 11:28 PM   #4
Duchess
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
Absolute Femme
Preferred Pronoun?:
She
Relationship Status:
Toe curling :-)
 
Duchess's Avatar
 
2 Highscores

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,382
Thanks: 1,792
Thanked 5,592 Times in 1,521 Posts
Rep Power: 21474854
Duchess Has the BEST ReputationDuchess Has the BEST ReputationDuchess Has the BEST ReputationDuchess Has the BEST ReputationDuchess Has the BEST ReputationDuchess Has the BEST ReputationDuchess Has the BEST ReputationDuchess Has the BEST ReputationDuchess Has the BEST ReputationDuchess Has the BEST ReputationDuchess Has the BEST Reputation
Default

I love this thread Medusa. This is truly enlightening. I've never heard of a crone femme. I must read on.

Duchess
__________________
無料のライブ
Duchess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2009, 11:38 PM   #5
Isadora
Member

How Do You Identify?:
Momma, Ma'am
Preferred Pronoun?:
She/Her
Relationship Status:
I am in love. Truly Madly Deeply
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: California
Posts: 997
Thanks: 502
Thanked 2,126 Times in 559 Posts
Rep Power: 2369288
Isadora Has the BEST ReputationIsadora Has the BEST ReputationIsadora Has the BEST ReputationIsadora Has the BEST ReputationIsadora Has the BEST ReputationIsadora Has the BEST ReputationIsadora Has the BEST ReputationIsadora Has the BEST ReputationIsadora Has the BEST ReputationIsadora Has the BEST ReputationIsadora Has the BEST Reputation
Default

In my pagan tradition a woman is "Croned" when she has completed her second Saturn return. My tradition will Crone anyone who is over 56 and completed her return. It is also a woman's choice as to when she is Croned. I have not chosen to do this, I do not feel it is time. I have a lot more to learn.

To me the Crone represents not only wisdom, she represents the oral/written history of the community. They are the teachers and the protectors. The Crone is the beauty of graceful acceptance of the aging process. The Crone is the one who holds silence and also speaks brutal truths. She understands the value of being not doing.

While the maiden is new to sex, the mother is the creatrix of sex, the Crone is the teacher and the pure pleasure of sex. *cackle*
__________________
"I have a respect for manners as such, they are a way of dealing with people you don't agree with or like." Margaret Mead



Read me! www.leatherati.com
Isadora is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Isadora For This Useful Post:
Old 11-26-2009, 09:53 AM   #6
Arwen
Joy Seeker

How Do You Identify?:
Smartly-Flavored
Preferred Pronoun?:
Goddess
Relationship Status:
Mrs. Syzygy 1/9/14
 
Arwen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Joyville, NM (aka Land of Enchantment)
Posts: 10,140
Thanks: 13,636
Thanked 28,119 Times in 6,414 Posts
Rep Power: 21474862
Arwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST ReputationArwen Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isadora View Post
In my pagan tradition a woman is "Croned" when she has completed her second Saturn return. My tradition will Crone anyone who is over 56 and completed her return. It is also a woman's choice as to when she is Croned. I have not chosen to do this, I do not feel it is time. I have a lot more to learn.

To me the Crone represents not only wisdom, she represents the oral/written history of the community. They are the teachers and the protectors. The Crone is the beauty of graceful acceptance of the aging process. The Crone is the one who holds silence and also speaks brutal truths. She understands the value of being not doing.

While the maiden is new to sex, the mother is the creatrix of sex, the Crone is the teacher and the pure pleasure of sex. *cackle*

This is very in-line with my own Trad in terms of age and astrological tenets.

You however, need to accept that gift that you are and the gifts that you bring. Darling, you may not have put on the crown, but it is right there on your pretty head already. Now sit down and let them put the decorations on as well. LOL

But this was a beautiful speaking of who I know Crones to be. Particularly the holding silence and speaking brutal truths. It is not easy to be honest to someone. That type of self-honest is so hard to find. So I think that age does not always bring wisdom, does it?

Here's to the Crones. May they be ever-wise and ever-vigilant. May we remember to thank them and be grateful for their presence in our lives. May we grow to be more like them every day.
Arwen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Arwen For This Useful Post:
Old 11-26-2009, 01:34 PM   #7
foxyshaman
Member

How Do You Identify?:
spiritually minded dirt dog
 
foxyshaman's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 898
Thanks: 3,957
Thanked 2,592 Times in 663 Posts
Rep Power: 21474852
foxyshaman Has the BEST Reputationfoxyshaman Has the BEST Reputationfoxyshaman Has the BEST Reputationfoxyshaman Has the BEST Reputationfoxyshaman Has the BEST Reputationfoxyshaman Has the BEST Reputationfoxyshaman Has the BEST Reputationfoxyshaman Has the BEST Reputationfoxyshaman Has the BEST Reputationfoxyshaman Has the BEST Reputationfoxyshaman Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isadora View Post
In my pagan tradition a woman is "Croned" when she has completed her second Saturn return. My tradition will Crone anyone who is over 56 and completed her return. It is also a woman's choice as to when she is Croned. I have not chosen to do this, I do not feel it is time. I have a lot more to learn.

To me the Crone represents not only wisdom, she represents the oral/written history of the community. They are the teachers and the protectors. The Crone is the beauty of graceful acceptance of the aging process. The Crone is the one who holds silence and also speaks brutal truths. She understands the value of being not doing.

While the maiden is new to sex, the mother is the creatrix of sex, the Crone is the teacher and the pure pleasure of sex. *cackle*
That's fascinating. What pagan tradition do you practice and why the Saturn return? I agree Crones are representatives of what you have written above. In some shamanic traditions women were not allowed to practice until they were well past their child bearing/rearing stage. In some traditions women who had children could not be shamans. Anyway... a bit off topic.

But for me the Crone where I will be one day. We have celebrated Crones in our circles many times over the years with special ceremonies. They are also given special duties within the community.

The Crone is often so misrepresented in myths and storys. But alas is that not the way it has been for many years. I am grateful for conversations regarding the Crone, the honor of the Crone and the rightful place within our socieity for Crones.

Yeah Crones!!!
foxyshaman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to foxyshaman For This Useful Post:
Old 07-31-2013, 08:35 PM   #8
Sweet Bliss
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
I Am
Preferred Pronoun?:
she
Relationship Status:
solo
 
Sweet Bliss's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: the Beach, Pacific side
Posts: 4,160
Thanks: 5,354
Thanked 7,268 Times in 2,159 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856
Sweet Bliss Has the BEST ReputationSweet Bliss Has the BEST ReputationSweet Bliss Has the BEST ReputationSweet Bliss Has the BEST ReputationSweet Bliss Has the BEST ReputationSweet Bliss Has the BEST ReputationSweet Bliss Has the BEST ReputationSweet Bliss Has the BEST ReputationSweet Bliss Has the BEST ReputationSweet Bliss Has the BEST ReputationSweet Bliss Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Bumping
Sweet Bliss is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sweet Bliss For This Useful Post:
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:55 AM.


ButchFemmePlanet.com
All information copyright of BFP 2018