Crone Femmes?

[Jess]

I always thought the progression was " maiden( nymph), warrior, Queen, Crone.
The four major segments of ones life. This could be also in the male, perhaps.. boy( son), warrior, king, elder( sage/ crone).
Wars are fought by warriors, either in the trenches or in our own communities. We see our young ( 20 somethings ) warriors being the ones forging new definitions for themselves and demanding to no longer be viewed by our older terms. Warriors create a new language and wear a new armor, while our "queens/ kings" attempt to incorporate the new into their vocabulary and our crones/ elders watch with contemplative pleasure, knowing all is as it should be.

I love the term Crone as I sit in my King/ Queen stage looking both behind and ahead. I look forward to the peace that comes after releasing the hold I still have on my "warrior" years.

Thanks.. good food for thought!

[Bit]

Ah, I learned that saying differently Jess, "Maiden Mother Warrior Crone"--and only Maiden tied to a specific age range. We're all different, eh?

So Dusa, "Crone" is the same word as "Crow" and it's tempting to think of it disrespectfully, yanno, old women in widow's weeds (black from head to toe), those raucous and troublesome "old crows" clustered around the village wells...

What people forget is that "Crone" and "Crow" are also the same word as "Crown." We were originally talking about the rightful tribal rulers, eh? The person who, in modern times, would be a Queen--and there was no male equivalent, since kings are a later invention, so we are talking about the ultimate power and authority in the land being vested only in female-bodied people.

Although the Greek image of Athena and Her Bird is indelible in our culture today, owls are not the only birds of wisdom. Tis the European Goddess's Sacred Crow who crowns a woman with wisdom and makes her a crone.

I'm so glad you included Butches in the discussion, because I have lived with two Butches who considered themselves Crones, and deservedly so--and I know there are many more.

That said, I must say that associating the image of power--a Crowned Woman with a Sacred Crow on her shoulder, reigning authority and avatar of the Goddess Herself for an entire people--associating that image with Femmes makes me glow inside. I love this reclamation of a term for ancient power by our largely invisible population which has difficulties being perceived by society as powerful in any way. Yes, let us take this word back; let us restore the image it once carried!

Today, Crone is generally acknowledged as "a woman fifty (sometimes 52) or over who has the benefit of a lifetime's experience and hard-learned wisdom to share," and it's most often used in the Pagan, Wiccan, Women's Spirituality, and Queer/Lesbian communities.

For me personally, a Crone is someone--no matter her age--who is allied with the Hag Goddesses, Hecate, Bridey, Mother Holle, Hel, Hurta, etc--all those ugly old-woman goddesses who were originally the power of the Earth Herself brought to vivid life in the most powerful image our ancestors could conceive: an old Crone, crowned with age and wisdom, leading the people safely through feast and famine alike.

How appropriate She comes to you now, at the beginning of Her Season of Snow. May She bless you abundantly with love and warmth, with family and happiness, and may She see you through the years with love and gentle care.

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by SyrJess

I always thought the progression was " maiden( nymph), warrior, Queen, Crone.
The four major segments of ones life. This could be also in the male, perhaps.. boy( son), warrior, king, elder( sage/ crone).

SyrJess, this is an interesting four that correlates back to the Tarot in a way.

In traditional Tarot decks there are four court cards. Usually they are the Page, the Knight, the Queen, the King.

I can see a feminine four there as well as a masculine four. Thanks for this thought!

[Duchess]

I love this thread Medusa. This is truly enlightening. I've never heard of a crone femme. I must read on.

Duchess

[Isadora]

In my pagan tradition a woman is "Croned" when she has completed her second Saturn return. My tradition will Crone anyone who is over 56 and completed her return. It is also a woman's choice as to when she is Croned. I have not chosen to do this, I do not feel it is time. I have a lot more to learn.

To me the Crone represents not only wisdom, she represents the oral/written history of the community. They are the teachers and the protectors. The Crone is the beauty of graceful acceptance of the aging process. The Crone is the one who holds silence and also speaks brutal truths. She understands the value of being not doing.

While the maiden is new to sex, the mother is the creatrix of sex, the Crone is the teacher and the pure pleasure of sex. *cackle*

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by Isadora

In my pagan tradition a woman is "Croned" when she has completed her second Saturn return. My tradition will Crone anyone who is over 56 and completed her return. It is also a woman's choice as to when she is Croned. I have not chosen to do this, I do not feel it is time. I have a lot more to learn.

To me the Crone represents not only wisdom, she represents the oral/written history of the community. They are the teachers and the protectors. The Crone is the beauty of graceful acceptance of the aging process. The Crone is the one who holds silence and also speaks brutal truths. She understands the value of being not doing.

While the maiden is new to sex, the mother is the creatrix of sex, the Crone is the teacher and the pure pleasure of sex. *cackle*

This is very in-line with my own Trad in terms of age and astrological tenets.

You however, need to accept that gift that you are and the gifts that you bring. Darling, you may not have put on the crown, but it is right there on your pretty head already. Now sit down and let them put the decorations on as well. LOL

But this was a beautiful speaking of who I know Crones to be. Particularly the holding silence and speaking brutal truths. It is not easy to be honest to someone. That type of self-honest is so hard to find. So I think that age does not always bring wisdom, does it?

Here's to the Crones. May they be ever-wise and ever-vigilant. May we remember to thank them and be grateful for their presence in our lives. May we grow to be more like them every day.

[foxyshaman]

Originally Posted by Isadora

In my pagan tradition a woman is "Croned" when she has completed her second Saturn return. My tradition will Crone anyone who is over 56 and completed her return. It is also a woman's choice as to when she is Croned. I have not chosen to do this, I do not feel it is time. I have a lot more to learn.

To me the Crone represents not only wisdom, she represents the oral/written history of the community. They are the teachers and the protectors. The Crone is the beauty of graceful acceptance of the aging process. The Crone is the one who holds silence and also speaks brutal truths. She understands the value of being not doing.

While the maiden is new to sex, the mother is the creatrix of sex, the Crone is the teacher and the pure pleasure of sex. *cackle*

That's fascinating. What pagan tradition do you practice and why the Saturn return? I agree Crones are representatives of what you have written above. In some shamanic traditions women were not allowed to practice until they were well past their child bearing/rearing stage. In some traditions women who had children could not be shamans. Anyway... a bit off topic.

But for me the Crone where I will be one day. We have celebrated Crones in our circles many times over the years with special ceremonies. They are also given special duties within the community.

The Crone is often so misrepresented in myths and storys. But alas is that not the way it has been for many years. I am grateful for conversations regarding the Crone, the honor of the Crone and the rightful place within our socieity for Crones.

Yeah Crones!!!

[Sweet Bliss]

Bumping