Stone--Personal Definitions

Bit · 06-04-2010, 08:30 PM

Stoney's questions: If a woman is in a relationship with a stone butch , is she now a stone femme?

Cath: Not as far as I'm concerned, and I'll tell you why. For me personally and according to the other Stonefemmes who have shared with me, this identity is our own. It's not granted to us by the Stone Butch, nor is it contagious--they cannot somehow magically turn us into Stonefemmes.

This identity is consistent within us no matter whom we might choose as a partner. Many of us have had the experience of being with non-Stone Butches whom we loved very deeply and feeling just awful BECAUSE we weren't comfortable with them sexually; I myself thought I was somehow a badly defective Lesbian because I didn't enjoy "doing as was done to me," yanno? Discovering Stone Butches was a huge "coming home" after years of that kind of relationship, and believe me, the relief was so huge that I cried for weeks.

Stoney: Does that change an identity if the person you are with is stone? or would you simply identify as femme?

Cath: I think nothing external, including a partner, can change an internal identity. I will say that it might appear that way to onlookers, if the Femme is exploring her own identity and experiments with the Stonefemme label to see if it fits her, but to me that is still an internal identity exploration. I can tell you that I changed very drastically over the course of a couple years, and while the things Stone Butches and Transmen were saying served as a catalyst for the changes, it was still my own internal process. Actually, other Femmes of all kinds were a bigger influence in my identity exploration.

Stoney: If you would be changing your style of sex out of respect for the person you were with or is it a lifestyle you would continue to pursue even in a different relationship? also would a woman who identifies as a stone femme whether in a relationship or not only look to date a stone butch?

Cath: I prefer to date Stone Butches and Transmen, but I'm not limited to them. I've fallen in love with many a Butch who was neither. Gryph is neither.

Stoney: I know for me, being Stone isnt an issue if it was a casual thing but what about a different senerio, you fall in love with a person who wasnt stone before,

Cath: I admit that I was concerned! It hadn't gone so well in the past, falling in love with non-Stone Butches, and I wondered if I would be able to deal with it. What made me willing to try was that Gryph and I were completely compatible in the rest of our lives (well. Except for his infamous "butchelor pad" non-cleaning tendencies, that is), and I trusted him to be respectful of my boundaries as a Stonefemme. He is respectful of them, he does understand, and we've never had a problem.

Stoney: or maybe you fall in love with a stone butch and you arent....would you always feel like something was missing? Would you miss making love to a woman? I always wondered if my partner was feeling restricted from something she may desire to do with me or to me , just like I do her.

Cath: I've had a hard time shaking off the guilt because I wasn't "performing" the way some of my past lovers expected me to, but miss it? No. It's not my thing. I don't know any Stonefemmes who say they miss it, either... most of my friends over the years have said they, like me, are relieved to be able to concentrate on having sex that feels natural to us in relationships that work for us with partners we adore. I've heard that so consistently that I think maybe they feel that relief at finding the right kind of relationship in the same huge way I do.

Thank you for the questions!

Stoney · 06-04-2010, 08:58 PM

Bit!

thank you so much for all your answers. I honestly have been wondering about these things for years, what you said , I have heard my partner say," it takes the pressure off, it allows her to be comfortable, because we are so compatible in that way". I was hoping my questions came off genuine because they were. I never really understoond stone femme either, till recently , I am embarrassed to admit I was wrong for a long time on that,

It has helped me to see it and understand it , we are really so much alike arent we ?

Thank you so much Bit , Love all your posts too!

Peace Stoney

CherylNYC · 06-04-2010, 10:56 PM

I love Bit's line about stone not being a contagious disease. Ha! I am who I am. My partners are who they are.

As for telling my friends that I'm a stonefemme, its kinda personal. Except, that is, for this website. Online communities are a funny thing. Only a very few of my close friends know this fundamental thing about me, but I wrote it loud and clear for anyone to see on my profile. Hmmm. One of the reasons I endured the incredibly irritating heteronormative posturing on the other site was that it was the only place I could interact with anyone who was like me. One of the reasons I stay active in this online community is because I find my ID so utterly isolating.

While most people have some idea what it means to be a stone butch, even my friends in the sex-positive kink community have NO IDEA what it means to be a stonefemme. When I tell them their eyes open wide in disbelief. I can't blame them. I had no idea what it meant until a few years ago. To be honest, if I were not a stonefemme I would very likely have trouble getting my head around the idea. There's still a part of me that says, "stonefemme? WTF?". I still struggle with feelings of inadequacy.

My late gf was nearly stone. She let me know in every way that we had the best sex she had in her life. That helped. A lot. My partner previous to her was not stone. She wanted me to reciprocate and neither of us knew why I just couldn't do what we both expected me to want to do in bed. She felt rejected, and I felt like a failure whenever it came up. Unfortunately she died suddenly in an accident in '03. Even though it's irrational, I still feel guilty that she died without getting what she wanted from me. We communicated a lot after she passed. I feel like she knows that I really did the best I could, and that I was only guilty of ignorance, but I soooo wish that she were alive to have that conversation with me.

I'm a BDSM masochist and a sexual bottom. Both my late partner and my late gf were big, bad- ass butch tops. That top/bottom dynamic can foster a stone sexual relationship even with couples who don't ID as stone. You know- aggressor/receiver, pitcher/catcher, dominant/submissive. That's how my late partner and I managed to have sizzling, screaming, mind-blowing sex even though we had unresolved issues around reciprocity. We both chalked it up to our sexual D/s dynamic.

It's all knotted up with guilt and mortality for me, but right now I'm just not secure enough in my stone ID to risk a romance with a butch who is not stone. I might be able to do it later in my life, but not now. I think those who can do it must have awesome communication skills. Maybe I'll get there one day.

Stoney · 06-05-2010, 07:02 AM

cheryl, thank you so much,

great perspective, great post,

Im learning alot .

Peace Stoney

Toughy · 06-05-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

I'm a BDSM masochist and a sexual bottom. Both my late partner and my late gf were big, bad- ass butch tops. That top/bottom dynamic can foster a stone sexual relationship even with couples who don't ID as stone. You know- aggressor/receiver, pitcher/catcher, dominant/submissive. That's how my late partner and I managed to have sizzling, screaming, mind-blowing sex even though we had unresolved issues around reciprocity. We both chalked it up to our sexual D/s dynamic.

I wanted to piggyback on this idea.....

I am not sexually stone, except when I am.

When I am in Top kink space, I am about as sexually stone as you could possibly be. I am totally cock-identified and my clit is not a cock ever. I don't have a clit or breasts.

Outside of Top kink space, it is about the energy between the femme in my (her) bed and me. It's very fluid (from stone to all access) and very satisfying.

I also want to point out there are Femmes who are sexually stone.......meaning they don't want penetration or breasts played with or clit sucked. They get their pleasure from fucking/making love to the butch in their bed.

I also think everyone has sexual boundaries that must be respected. Sexual boundaries is not a phenomenon of Stone id.

TenderKnight · 06-16-2010, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

I also think everyone has sexual boundaries that must be respected. Sexual boundaries is not a phenomenon of Stone id.

THANK TOU for this post.. I do not ID as stone, although I thought that maybe I was for a while. I do have sexual bounderies, however.. Sometimes I get very frustrated in bed, if I am not strapped. My cock is part of my sexual identity..

I have certain ways I want to be touched, there are also some things that I just don't like to do *to* a partner, because to *me*, it puts me into "lesbian" head space.. I still have memories of being a lesbian, I had a 4 year lesbian relationship.. It is a bad mindfuck for me, because then I feel femininized. I have had partners that don't get it, just as I've had partners that totally get it and enjoy the energy there.

It all comes down to mutual respecting of personal head space and bounderies for me. If a sexual partner asks me not to do something, I don't do it. It doesn't make them any less of a femme, butch, tranguy, cisguy, transwoman, or what ever they ID as.. The point is to connect with my partner and to have a good time.

There are somethings I really *need* to do with a partner I am in a relationship with.. One of those is strapping on one of my cocks and makeing love or fucking with it. If it's a hook up, it's diffrent for me.. The point there is to get off. In a relationship, the point is to share in the experience and maybe eventually, we get to get off too

I hope that my contribution helps add to the convo here.. As I said, I am not stone, but I *get* where being stone comes from and what it's about.

Thank you to all that have posted, I have been enjoying the read

-Tony

Soon · 11-18-2010, 03:01 PM

Some really wonderful sharing of people's personal definitions of Stone.

Thank you to all who have participated (or will!).

cinderella · 06-05-2010, 03:00 PM

Wow, Bit, what a sigh of relief when I read your post!! You are describing my experience to a T. Thank you for posting this. You have reaffirmed any hint of vestigial doubt I may still have had regarding this issue. I couldn't have said it any better - very well expressed.

[QUOTE=Bit;122860]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=teal]
*snip*
This identity is consistent within us no matter whom we might choose as a partner. Many of us have had the experience of being with non-Stone Butches whom we loved very deeply and feeling just awful BECAUSE we weren't comfortable with them sexually; I myself thought I was somehow a badly defective Lesbian because I didn't enjoy "doing as was done to me," yanno? Discovering Stone Butches was a huge "coming home" after years of that kind of relationship, and believe me, the relief was so huge that I cried for weeks.

dark_crystal · 06-05-2010, 04:18 PM

my fetlife profile says the following:

The orientation and identity i identify strongest with is Stone Femme:
*Definition from wikipedia via the old butch-femme.com: Stone femme is a lesbian identity whose name was patterned after the more widely-known term stone butch. Identification with the term is not necessarily dependent upon the stone femme's physical appearance or gender expression, or upon the identity of the stone femme's partner.

Stone femme has many different meanings:

- a femme who is the bottom in sexual interactions
- a femme who is attracted to or partnered with masculine or stone butches; who does not wish to sexually touch her partners' genitals, or whose partner does not wish to have her/hys/his biological genitals touched
- an exceptionally femme femme
- a femme top who does not wish to be genitally stimulated or touched by her partner during sex

Some people use the term 'stone femme' to describe their identity in regards to their sexual identity or gender identity, their boundaries regarding the expression of either, or their sexual boundaries. Some stone femmes identify as queer, as dykes, and/or as lesbians. Others do not identify as lesbians due to the disconnect between the political and sexual connotations of the word and the reality of their experiences.*

This identity does have certain nuances for me- i predict many curious-about-me profile visitors will read "a femme (...) who does not wish to sexually touch her partners' genitals" with alarm- herein lies the nuance:

sexually my default mode is very passive and i could be mistaken for a “pillow princess.” NOT SO! i enjoy touching and tasting my partners in any way or amount they desire! It is just that, because i am extremely passive and submissive, i must be ordered specifically to do so. Once i am under orders my efforts are enthusiastic (and skilled!), i assure you. And no, a standing order is not affective.

06-04-2010, 10:56 PM	#3
CherylNYC Member How Do You Identify?: Stonefemme lesbian Preferred Pronoun?: I'm a woman. Behave accordingly. Relationship Status: Single, not looking. Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NYC Posts: 1,467 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,474 Thanked 7,112 Times in 1,205 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	I love Bit's line about stone not being a contagious disease. Ha! I am who I am. My partners are who they are. As for telling my friends that I'm a stonefemme, its kinda personal. Except, that is, for this website. Online communities are a funny thing. Only a very few of my close friends know this fundamental thing about me, but I wrote it loud and clear for anyone to see on my profile. Hmmm. One of the reasons I endured the incredibly irritating heteronormative posturing on the other site was that it was the only place I could interact with anyone who was like me. One of the reasons I stay active in this online community is because I find my ID so utterly isolating. While most people have some idea what it means to be a stone butch, even my friends in the sex-positive kink community have NO IDEA what it means to be a stonefemme. When I tell them their eyes open wide in disbelief. I can't blame them. I had no idea what it meant until a few years ago. To be honest, if I were not a stonefemme I would very likely have trouble getting my head around the idea. There's still a part of me that says, "stonefemme? WTF?". I still struggle with feelings of inadequacy. My late gf was nearly stone. She let me know in every way that we had the best sex she had in her life. That helped. A lot. My partner previous to her was not stone. She wanted me to reciprocate and neither of us knew why I just couldn't do what we both expected me to want to do in bed. She felt rejected, and I felt like a failure whenever it came up. Unfortunately she died suddenly in an accident in '03. Even though it's irrational, I still feel guilty that she died without getting what she wanted from me. We communicated a lot after she passed. I feel like she knows that I really did the best I could, and that I was only guilty of ignorance, but I soooo wish that she were alive to have that conversation with me. I'm a BDSM masochist and a sexual bottom. Both my late partner and my late gf were big, bad- ass butch tops. That top/bottom dynamic can foster a stone sexual relationship even with couples who don't ID as stone. You know- aggressor/receiver, pitcher/catcher, dominant/submissive. That's how my late partner and I managed to have sizzling, screaming, mind-blowing sex even though we had unresolved issues around reciprocity. We both chalked it up to our sexual D/s dynamic. It's all knotted up with guilt and mortality for me, but right now I'm just not secure enough in my stone ID to risk a romance with a butch who is not stone. I might be able to do it later in my life, but not now. I think those who can do it must have awesome communication skills. Maybe I'll get there one day. __________________ Cheryl

11-18-2010, 03:01 PM	#7
Soon Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Relationship Status: attached Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: . Posts: 6,896 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29,046 Thanked 13,093 Times in 3,386 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	bump Some really wonderful sharing of people's personal definitions of Stone. Thank you to all who have participated (or will!).

06-05-2010, 03:00 PM	#8
cinderella Member How Do You Identify?: Pinky's mommy :) Preferred Pronoun?: Su Majestad Relationship Status: Happy with my puppy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pocono Mtns., Pa. Posts: 1,238 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4 Thanked 1,501 Times in 638 Posts Rep Power: 14266108	Wow, Bit, what a sigh of relief when I read your post!! You are describing my experience to a T. Thank you for posting this. You have reaffirmed any hint of vestigial doubt I may still have had regarding this issue. I couldn't have said it any better - very well expressed. [QUOTE=Bit;122860] [SIZE=3][COLOR=teal] snip This identity is consistent within us no matter whom we might choose as a partner. Many of us have had the experience of being with non-Stone Butches whom we loved very deeply and feeling just awful BECAUSE we weren't comfortable with them sexually; I myself thought I was somehow a badly defective Lesbian because I didn't enjoy "doing as was done to me," yanno? Discovering Stone Butches was a huge "coming home" after years of that kind of relationship, and believe me, the relief was so huge that I cried for weeks. __________________ Who needs reality when you have Turner Classic Movies!! The is an organ of fire.

06-04-2010, 08:30 PM	#1
Bit Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Stonefemme Relationship Status: married to Gryph Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 2,177 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,126 Thanked 3,770 Times in 1,264 Posts Rep Power: 10778870	Stoney's questions: If a woman is in a relationship with a stone butch , is she now a stone femme? Cath: Not as far as I'm concerned, and I'll tell you why. For me personally and according to the other Stonefemmes who have shared with me, this identity is our own. It's not granted to us by the Stone Butch, nor is it contagious--they cannot somehow magically turn us into Stonefemmes. This identity is consistent within us no matter whom we might choose as a partner. Many of us have had the experience of being with non-Stone Butches whom we loved very deeply and feeling just awful BECAUSE we weren't comfortable with them sexually; I myself thought I was somehow a badly defective Lesbian because I didn't enjoy "doing as was done to me," yanno? Discovering Stone Butches was a huge "coming home" after years of that kind of relationship, and believe me, the relief was so huge that I cried for weeks. Stoney: Does that change an identity if the person you are with is stone? or would you simply identify as femme? Cath: I think nothing external, including a partner, can change an internal identity. I will say that it might appear that way to onlookers, if the Femme is exploring her own identity and experiments with the Stonefemme label to see if it fits her, but to me that is still an internal identity exploration. I can tell you that I changed very drastically over the course of a couple years, and while the things Stone Butches and Transmen were saying served as a catalyst for the changes, it was still my own internal process. Actually, other Femmes of all kinds were a bigger influence in my identity exploration. Stoney: If you would be changing your style of sex out of respect for the person you were with or is it a lifestyle you would continue to pursue even in a different relationship? also would a woman who identifies as a stone femme whether in a relationship or not only look to date a stone butch? Cath: I prefer to date Stone Butches and Transmen, but I'm not limited to them. I've fallen in love with many a Butch who was neither. Gryph is neither. Stoney: I know for me, being Stone isnt an issue if it was a casual thing but what about a different senerio, you fall in love with a person who wasnt stone before, Cath: I admit that I was concerned! It hadn't gone so well in the past, falling in love with non-Stone Butches, and I wondered if I would be able to deal with it. What made me willing to try was that Gryph and I were completely compatible in the rest of our lives (well. Except for his infamous "butchelor pad" non-cleaning tendencies, that is), and I trusted him to be respectful of my boundaries as a Stonefemme. He is respectful of them, he does understand, and we've never had a problem. Stoney: or maybe you fall in love with a stone butch and you arent....would you always feel like something was missing? Would you miss making love to a woman? I always wondered if my partner was feeling restricted from something she may desire to do with me or to me , just like I do her. Cath: I've had a hard time shaking off the guilt because I wasn't "performing" the way some of my past lovers expected me to, but miss it? No. It's not my thing. I don't know any Stonefemmes who say they miss it, either... most of my friends over the years have said they, like me, are relieved to be able to concentrate on having sex that feels natural to us in relationships that work for us with partners we adore. I've heard that so consistently that I think maybe they feel that relief at finding the right kind of relationship in the same huge way I do. Thank you for the questions!

06-04-2010, 08:58 PM	#2
Stoney Member How Do You Identify?: Stone Butch lesbian feminist Crone Preferred Pronoun?: Wicked Witch Relationship Status: happily content Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 135 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 112 Thanked 229 Times in 60 Posts Rep Power: 245965	Bit! thank you so much for all your answers. I honestly have been wondering about these things for years, what you said , I have heard my partner say," it takes the pressure off, it allows her to be comfortable, because we are so compatible in that way". I was hoping my questions came off genuine because they were. I never really understoond stone femme either, till recently , I am embarrassed to admit I was wrong for a long time on that, It has helped me to see it and understand it , we are really so much alike arent we ? Thank you so much Bit , Love all your posts too! Peace Stoney

06-05-2010, 07:02 AM	#4
Stoney Member How Do You Identify?: Stone Butch lesbian feminist Crone Preferred Pronoun?: Wicked Witch Relationship Status: happily content Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 135 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 112 Thanked 229 Times in 60 Posts Rep Power: 245965	cheryl, thank you so much, great perspective, great post, Im learning alot . Peace Stoney

06-05-2010, 04:18 PM	#9
dark_crystal Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: jenny Preferred Pronoun?: babygirl Relationship Status: First Lady of the United SMH Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,445 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,532 Thanked 26,550 Times in 4,688 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	my fetlife profile says the following: The orientation and identity i identify strongest with is Stone Femme: Definition from wikipedia via the old butch-femme.com: Stone femme is a lesbian identity whose name was patterned after the more widely-known term stone butch. Identification with the term is not necessarily dependent upon the stone femme's physical appearance or gender expression, or upon the identity of the stone femme's partner. Stone femme has many different meanings: - a femme who is the bottom in sexual interactions - a femme who is attracted to or partnered with masculine or stone butches; who does not wish to sexually touch her partners' genitals, or whose partner does not wish to have her/hys/his biological genitals touched - an exceptionally femme femme - a femme top who does not wish to be genitally stimulated or touched by her partner during sex Some people use the term 'stone femme' to describe their identity in regards to their sexual identity or gender identity, their boundaries regarding the expression of either, or their sexual boundaries. Some stone femmes identify as queer, as dykes, and/or as lesbians. Others do not identify as lesbians due to the disconnect between the political and sexual connotations of the word and the reality of their experiences. This identity does have certain nuances for me- i predict many curious-about-me profile visitors will read "a femme (...) who does not wish to sexually touch her partners' genitals" with alarm- herein lies the nuance: sexually my default mode is very passive and i could be mistaken for a “pillow princess.” NOT SO! i enjoy touching and tasting my partners in any way or amount they desire! It is just that, because i am extremely passive and submissive, i must be ordered specifically to do so. Once i am under orders my efforts are enthusiastic (and skilled!), i assure you. And no, a standing order is not affective.