Meditation

[C0LLETTE]

I am very interested in the writings and teachings of the fine eco-feminist, Vandana Shiva. I find she triggers reflection on deep-rooted beliefs.

[charley]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

I am very interested in the writings and teachings of the fine eco-feminist, Vandana Shiva. I find she triggers reflection on deep-rooted beliefs.

Please understand that the above-mentioned person has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Her cast identifies her as a Brahmin and reflects a deeply-held rooted belief which has caused enormous damage to those in India who are not Brahmin. She has never turned her back on those beliefs, and wears her cast symbol proudly on her forehead. The Brahmin cast reflects deep conditioning which she obviously has not put aside, as the Hindu variety of meditation does not question its own beliefs. Brahmins in general believe they are the chosen ones, the elite. Moreover, Brahmins support the false deeply-held and rooted belief in the ultimate paramatman or Brahman, or in the higher self and the lower self - which, because it is created by thought, has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Because these beliefs are created by thought, by themselves, worshiping and supporting such beliefs are nothing but sensory projections, which because they are created by the believers, means they are only worshiping themselves. In other words, such beliefs are self-projected, and are narcissist in essence, yielding entitlement, and power over others. If these Brahmins would see the falseness of such beliefs, it would mean the entire collapse of the cast system and the Hindu Brahmin religious society, and then the Brahmins would have to shovel their own shit instead of allocating that job to those whose cast says that it is the only thing they are entitled to do - and remember the majority of those who shovel shit are women.

If you are really interested in this person as you say you are, please feel free to write your own thread on this Brahmin.

[nycfem]

Colette, Charley, and Martina- maybe best Colette takes a break from Charley and Martina, and Martina and Charley takes a break from Collette. Just kind of give each other some space since it's not really working out so well.

[kittygrrl]

i find meditating relaxing..quieting my mind helps me with anxiety..you mentioned cliques earlier...when i first came to the mainland i was bullied for the first six years i lived here until i hit puberty...to me a clique is another word for mob..yes, i know all about them from the receiving end..i felt very sorry for myself at the time...no one wanted to hang out with me because they were too afraid whatever was wrong with me would rub off on them and then they would suffer my fate...i had no choice but to be my own best friend and today i'm so grateful for the experience..a lot of my anxiety i feel is when i see people around me in pain..some of it you can help them overcome but a lot of it has to come from a decision to try something different..even scary...i love meditating with a group i feel comfortable with..the vibe can become unbelievably peaceful and full of a brightness i can't explain.

[charley]

To summarize my above post on “how to meditate”, all forms of conscious meditation are organised by the self, either by oneself or by someone else - especially when organized into a group. They are, in effect, practised, deliberate, determined, thought out, calculated, intended, studied, preconceived, guided, directed (by oneself or by another), and so on; in other words, they are premeditated. Obviously, anything that is premeditated is not meditation, because it is in essence, get this.... premeditation! So, I am saying that premeditation is not meditation. As long as the ego is trying to “become” something, to attain some goal or end result, whatever form of meditation that the ego is involved in is not meditation, but is in effect a form of premeditation.

Moreover, all forms of meditation, all the different kinds of so-called meditation, whether it is called Zen meditation, or Buddhist meditation, or Hindu meditation, Transcendental meditation, etc. are all forms of premeditation. Any system or method of meditation must of itself be premeditated. And, behind all of these meditations, there is the idea of controlling one’s thought, so that it doesn’t wander or drift. And that is why, all these forms of meditation have to - at one time or another - stress concentration.

A mind that practises any form of a system becomes mechanical, like a machine. So, the moment you practice awareness - becoming aware of the different parts of your body, of any movement of your body, or your breath, you are practising a method, a system - and that isn’t meditation. That is just a way in which you are being unwittingly brainwashed into becoming a machine - being pacified, being put to sleep by the very method that says it will lead to freedom. Even the idea of saying that doing something that will lead to freedom is entirely false. Imitation and following some tradition is always mechanical, machine-like, and has nothing to do with true meditation. Inherent in all these approaches is that psychological freedom is seen as a goal; but, how can freedom be seen as a goal, when one is a stuck to beliefs that maintain one in a state of slavery to whatever belief that one may be attached to? That is also why it is important to drop all that beliefs prior to the natural occurrence of meditation.

The central issue of all of these formulations of so-called meditation is that therein there is one fragment of the self trying to control thought, which is in effect one fragment of the ego trying to control another fragment of the ego. So, what happens is that all these different forms of meditation actually encourage separation, increase the division between various fragments, and maintain self-enclosure and, therefore, create duality, and end up strengthening each of the different fragments - all of which is the complete opposite of what it means to whole, to be one.

Someone who has not laid a proper and correct foundation in their life (which I will discuss in the next post) can only do the meditation that you see online on various sites, which may even be referred to as “fake meditation”.

In true meditation, you are not acquiring knowledge about how you function. You are not adding information and psychological knowledge about your behaviour to your ego. You are not accumulating more experiences. You are not translating some knowledge of yourself into a pattern that you can recognize intellectually. You are not a computer program! This is true meditation.

Meditation must of itself be natural, spontaneous, free. It must be a natural occurrence. So, what I am saying is that it has to be unconscious. That is also why it is incorrect to even try and teach meditation, because there is a goal, motive, purpose, etc. involved in such a process - a method. No one can teach you about yourself; that is one thing to do and discover by yourself (as I will discuss more fully in the next post). And, as long as there is that motive or purpose or effort involved in that process - as I have observed online (and also have seen when interacting with those who even teach meditation here in real life and their students/victims), what one is teaching is premeditated - that is, it is only premeditation. In true meditation, there is no concentration involved, no effort. In essence, meditation is a natural occurrence.

[charley]

All of my posts are nothing less than laying a foundation for meditation to occur naturally, freely, without any compulsion, or thought. To repeat, these posts are in essence by themselves the laying of a foundation for meditation to occur naturally and easily, without any effort, without any forethought about it, without any planning whatsoever.

Of course, if one doesn’t have a good foundation, something solid and indestructible, one can always start again, and build yourself a foundation on a more solid basis.

Fallowness

Now, when one plants a garden, one must ensure that the earth itself is fertile and rich. Otherwise, the plants won’t bloom or grow naturally. When the ground is fallow, dry, and barren, such as found in a desert, very little can blossom and bloom in sand. In that sense, the seeds that are planted in a desert will just blow away and be forgotten. In the same way, when one’s own ground is fallow, these posts will not give rise to the laying of a foundation for meditation to occur naturally.

The ground/foundation of a person must be fertile for a new seed (idea) to be planted and to flourish. When the ground is fallow, the seed (idea) will perish and drift away. [As an aside, and in tune and in harmony with nature and the seasons of life, there are natural times when meditation itself can and does subside. So, it is nonsensical to apply a fixed time and routine for meditation.]

For meditation to be occur naturally, a right foundation has to be laid within. And, one basis of such a foundation is always right action, right behaviour, proper conduct. And, the beauty and wonder of right action is that no one can tell you what you “should” do - such an awful word is that word “should”. So, what I am saying is that it is for each and everyone to discover for themselves what right action is.

Authority

Any foundation that is based on thought will result in conflict and sorrow. The foundation for meditation must be based on right action, on virtue. Most definitely, virtue is not the virtue that society tells you is virtue, what others define for you. When society defines to you what virtue is, you are following the dictates of an authority, someone or a group of people who obviously have an agenda. When you follow what society tells you is a virtue, all you are doing is developing a habit. Society may say that it is okay (in effect, virtuous and commendable) to be greedy, to be competitive, ambitious, acquisitive, successful, intent on achievement, on becoming, etc. even to the point of being ready to kill for some idea, for some belief, etc., but that is not virtue. It can never be true virtue, because as long as there is this ambition and competition, and so on, there must be exploitation. Exploitation means that one is using another, even if it is mutual, and this very exploitation prevents relationship, prevents communion with “the other” - because there is always fear involved in exploitation, even to the point of paranoia - fear of losing, so then jealousy, possessiveness, etc. Moreover, it is thought that creates the idea of virtue that society tends to impose on others. It is thought that creates the idea of virtue that is inculcated into us by society. It is thought that chooses the morality and ethos of society, of any group, of any gang, of any organized group of people. It is never love. [As an aside, it is important to understand that love is always located outside the field of thought.]

Virtue itself cannot be cultivated, because when it is cultivated it only leads to respectability - what others think you are worth based on what society values and thinks you are worth. Such people have no problem showing a fake form of respect to those they want to be liked by, and they can easily deny respect to those they don’t like, which is so hypocritical. This is important, because it is respect that gives rise to understanding, and it is understanding that awakens intelligence.

So, any foundation that is laid must not involve the acceptance of authority. Authority must be questioned and doubted all the time. Authority always ends up resulting in arrogance and a lack of humility and is a dead end in itself. There must be freedom from authority for meditation to occur naturally.

So, what I saying is that virtue is something that can only be discovered by you alone. And, when that is done, then only can there be order in your life. When there is that order, it may be possible for meditation to occur naturally, freely, and without effort.

Freedom

From the above, it is clearly seen that unless one puts one’s beliefs aside, these very beliefs prevent a naturally occurring meditation. How can anyone feel free to look when one is tied to beliefs? How can anyone feel free to look when one is afraid? So, what I am saying here is that freedom is also a basis for laying a proper foundation for meditation to occur naturally. While most people “believe” that freedom is the goal, that just isn’t true.

Additionally, one also needs space - to be able to move around in life, but one also needs interior space. To be able to see what is happening within, one also needs to have enough space within. Please understand that there is very little space between the tip of your nose and your skull. And, when you stuff that small space with psychological knowledge, with beliefs, with thoughts, you block yourself from having the necessary space within to see clearly “what is” happening inside, as well as “what is” happening outside. So, by dropping beliefs, you create space inside that will make it possible for meditation to occur naturally. Of course, most of you know the expression: ... “you can’t see the forest for the trees”; and, that is why it is important to free yourself up of the trees that get in the way of you getting the whole picture of who you are. So, it is seen that psychological freedom is part and parcel of laying a right foundation, right at the beginning. It is not a goal or an end to be achieved.

Love

Without love, there no possibility of virtue. To me, this love is the love of humanity, which includes: sympathy, empathy and compassion - compassion being the love for all. [It is not affection or fondness, which also exists; and, please understand that affection or fondness or sensation is not love. Even a monster like Hitler was fond of his dog!!! but, he wasn’t a loving human being!]

For my part, my understanding of the word “passion”, comes from its original etymology, meaning suffering, sorrow from the Latin word “passio-”. People have corrupted and misused its meaning due to how people alter the meaning of words according to their conditioning and how they then try and influence others so as to use them and exploit them... which is nothing less than outside propaganda and pressure - years of corruption through generation after generation of abuse, etc. As well, people say, because of advertising, “I love Coca-Cola”... Of course, it is impossible to actually feel “love” for a soft drink. You can see easily from this one example how words have become corrupted and easily misused.

So, from my part, when one accepts who one is, there is passion. In other words, a priori, one must know who one is. Unfortunately, most people don’t even know who they are, nor even understand who they are.

In this context, please understand that knowing about oneself is not the same as “knowing” one’s sorrow closely, intimately.

So, without accepting all of one’s conditioning which comes from sadness, fear, sorrow, suffering, and everything else, a person really has no passion. They may have a form of ego energy, which fuels and drives their life, but that isn’t passion.

Now, there is a big difference between having a particular interest/hobby/a “liking” in one area, and having a lifelong passion in a direction which carries one to leave a particular mark on the world, which is beautiful in itself, and which has not caused harm to anyone, especially to themselves.

Compassion means to have a feeling towards and with (com- meaning “with”) the suffering of another. Therefore, compassion is passion which extends outward to include “the other”... which, of course leads to the meaning of having passion for the suffering of all... in other words, a love for all.

Of course, without being open to or close to or being in touch with one’s own suffering/sorrow, it is impossible to have that passion, and therefore be open to integrate compassion into one's being - that feeling of love of humanity, that feeling of love for all.

Please understand that when one behaves with greed, with pettiness, with brutality, cruelty, ambition, elitism, exploitation, competitiveness, etc., we create a world where all that exists. Please also understand that while all organized religions say that they promote love for all as a message, the fact remains that they do not denounce or condemn the greed, the pettiness, the brutality, cruelty, ambition, elitism, exploitation, competitiveness, etc. of their congregation, because they depend on the cooperation of their congregation to maintain and sustain their religion. [As an aside, all gangs/cliques usually function in somewhat the same way.] If they would actually condemn and denounce these aspects to create a world where love for all (that is, compassion) would exist, it would mean the collapse of all of their organized religions.

[charley]

Now, personally, I must admit that originally in my own journey, I approached those who I thought and “assumed” knew more than me. As a matter of fact, I bugged loads of “experts” (that is, “authority”), and came away a little more than frustrated - with thoughts such as “g.......m m....f..... so and so’s.... However, at that time, not understanding what meditation was, I really didn’t have those words that could express the "why" of my dissatisfaction with these self-styled “specialists”, and what was wrong with their approaches.

I would say that one of the main problem with these people was their absolute lack of transparency. Also, I did spend (and waste) a bit of $... (smh)... on these bozos.

Moreover, I even tried meditation in a group... and I did sense - after a few gatherings - that there was something inherently wrong with this approach, and still didn’t have those words to say what I felt/sensed was wrong...

I must add here that when one understands something, it is only afterwards that words come.

My present understanding of why meditation in groups is problematic is that one finds oneself with a lot of people who do not necessarily understand who they are, and let alone what they are. And so, there is a quite a bit of psychic energy floating around such a group, and such energy can and does affect someone, even to the point of interfering/affecting/influencing one’s own capacity to see “what is” happening inside and without. Moreover, in this environment, this form of so-called “meditation” can make one even more susceptible to suggestion. I don’t feel like listing here the many examples of what happens in a “mob”; but, in general, people do have a tendency to be carried away by the feeling generated by being in a “mob”. Of course, such a group effort will “stimulate” meditation.

The downside of group meditation is that one may then “depend” on the group to maintain the “stimulation”. Please understand that such dependence (or any dependence on some guru) itself is counterproductive to true meditation, and it may actually thwart one’s ability to see oneself, by maintaining and even sustaining the dysfunctional tendency of the conditioning of dependence itself. Meditation must be something that is discovered alone, a word that literally means “all one”, in other words, “whole”. [As an aside, being alone does not imply isolation...]

One has also noticed that some people like to do meditation sitting alone (cross-legged in a "meditation posture" with their eyes closed) in a public area, such as park. For similar reasons as mentioned above, such as the psychic energy floating around these public areas especially by onlookers, I feel that is not a good idea.

I will also add here that only two of the many bozos that I had contacted apologized to me, and both of those two bozos did it in a sneaky manner - instead of calling me up on my phone... Moreover, they did that some time afterwards and to my utter surprise; they contacted me by coming up inside of me, and did their apology that way!!! I only accepted one of those bozo’s apologies, as I saw remorse... which I regretted later on!!! As I now understand their manner of apologizing, it constituted a real invasion of privacy. As well, it prevented me from asking questions as to the "why" of their behaviour and thereby elucidating and clearing up any misunderstandings, and also discovering their agendas then and there, which of course would have led them to having to face themselves as to their own dysfunctional behavior.

So, again, I mention how important it is to question authority. Of course, certain things have to be seen as facts - technological information, etc. [Obviously, it would be ridiculous and silly to accept the idea (and consequent belief) that the earth is flat.] So, I am saying that one must use a bit of discernment in one’s questioning of authority. In other words, one can't go around "negating" everything around you, and everything that anyone says.