2020 Presidential Election

[cathexis]

Originally Posted by ~ocean

thankfully we live in a freedom of speech country, with very tender subject like politics , we can SHARE our views ! always remember to nod that we are free thinkers and someone's views can open our eyes to another way to look at a subject ~ bashing is as classless as being ignorant to other country's politics. The up coming year is going to be intense . ** smiling ** and ^ 5's all my sister's. be kind ~

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Help me out here: what does "stateswomanly" mean and why isn't Harris enough of what it does mean?

As for "class" in politics, that probably went out when Henry Cabot Lodge died, whenever that was. Three names are always very "classy".

What was meant in my term, "not stateswomanly" refers to her apparent inability to maintain a calm, reserved, self assured demeanor. She seems to always be on the verge of flying off the handle.

This type of personality will probably not work well in International Relations. A candidate with that is "statespersonly" will be better to patch up what Trump has done to our relations, especially with Canada, Germany, and Great Britain. The candidates that fit that bill include Biden and Sanders also some way down on the polls like Bennet.
It is not an easy quality to put into words; however, "class" doesn't work either.
Class infers "bourgeoisie."

We also need to find one candidate that most Democrats and some people on the fence or passed off Republicans will vote for.

We don't need to follow the example of the Far Left and have a multi-candidate splinter resulting in a win for the other side.

[Allison W]

Originally Posted by cathexis

We also need to find one candidate that most Democrats and some people on the fence or passed off Republicans will vote for.

We don't need to follow the example of the Far Left and have a multi-candidate splinter resulting in a win for the other side.

I'd argue that "far left" is the only way out of this mess, but I'd also argue that what is needed is for one of our two most left-wing primary candidates to take the Democratic nomination and actually square off with Trump as one of the two Actual Candidates as opposed to trying to come in as a third-party spoiler.

As far as getting someone that "most Democrats" and "some people on the fence" or "pissed off Republicans" will vote for, I would argue that a move to the center can't do this effectively, because the center doesn't actually offer any reason to vote for it. It doesn't have a narrative or meaningful answers, and is associated with the maintenance of a toxic status quo. It can't convert people who weren't already onboard, and it also can't win over the massive chunk of people who are so disillusioned with the status quo that they won't go to the polls at all if the status quo and Trump are their only options. Moving left and offering an actual left-wing narrative and answer for our crises is the only thing with the power to do that. We live in times where, again, the traditional left-right distinction is ripe to be supplanted by a status quo-vs-populist distinction instead. The fash are already pushing right-populism aggressively, and the only thing that can actually defeat it long-term is left-populism.

[Apocalipstic]

I need to read this entire thread...but till I do, a couple of thoughts.

1. A shit house rat would be better than the Cheeto.

2. My current favorite is Elizabeth Warren

3. All of the Democratic Presidents I remember were centrist. I dream of a Socialist Utopia, or at least the programs that LBJ put in place, healthcare and education for everyone and no children in cages.

4. I will vote for whomever the Dems run for President

5. I think Kamala Harris is very elegant and poised...don't see the classless/unstatespersonish angle

6. What the hell is it going to take to get Trump out of there, though, I am not sure Pence would be any better

7. I have heard whisperings that Trump is going to drop Pence for 2020 and run ....Ivanka as VP...

[cathexis]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I need to read this entire thread...but till I do, a couple of thoughts.

1. A shit house rat would be better than the Cheeto.

2. My current favorite is Elizabeth Warren

3. All of the Democratic Presidents I remember were centrist. I dream of a Socialist Utopia, or at least the programs that LBJ put in place, healthcare and education for everyone and no children in cages.

4. I will vote for whomever the Dems run for President

5. I think Kamala Harris is very elegant and poised...don't see the classless/unstatespersonish angle

6. What the hell is it going to take to get Trump out of there, though, I am not sure Pence would be any better

7. I have heard whisperings that Trump is going to drop Pence for 2020 and run ....Ivanka as VP...

Pence is as much of a right-wing zealot as Trump, maybe worse. Ivanka for VP, unbelievable?! Though, not much can shock me now. Maybe the secret meetings Trump had with Putin were about how to turn a regime into a Plutocracy or Aristocracy. Just kidding roflol.

Socialist utopia? Socialism is no utopia, no government is. They all need much work to succeed, yes?

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by cathexis

Pence is as much of a right-wing zealot as Trump, maybe worse. Ivanka for VP, unbelievable?! Though, not much can shock me now. Maybe the secret meetings Trump had with Putin were about how to turn a regime into a Plutocracy or Aristocracy. Just kidding roflol.

Socialist utopia? Socialism is no utopia, no government is. They all need much work to succeed, yes?

I agree about Pence, he creeps me out. Who knows what the hell goes on in the secret meetings. I have long suspected they want to be Bond villains and are planning their secret island...but I think we can agree Trump wants to be King.

Utopia is a dream...not possible I agree. Yes, government is a lot of work. It seems that Capitalism, pure Socialism and even Capitalism look good on paper, but you put people in the mix and they are a disaster. A mixture might work, but that puts us back with the Centrists. As a kid I wanted to Communist until I realized they served the same food at every restaurant...on the other hand, I want everyone to have food and shelter and healthcare and education. The US is so huge and diverse it presents problems that smaller populations don't.

[homoe]

..
Unless Trump switches horses in midstream and picks Ivanka for VP, I think she can kiss any aspirations for public office goodbye at this point!

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by homoe

..
Unless Trump switches horses in midstream and picks Ivanka for VP, I think she can kiss any aspirations for public office goodbye at this point!

OMG, I hope so! She has always creeped me out, but her Lotita on the Prarie thing at the G-whatever, flirting with her dad made me sick.

[cathexis]

Originally Posted by Allison W

I'd argue that "far left" is the only way out of this mess, but I'd also argue that what is needed is for one of our two most left-wing primary candidates to take the Democratic nomination and actually square off with Trump as one of the two Actual Candidates as opposed to trying to come in as a third-party spoiler.

As far as getting someone that "most Democrats" and "some people on the fence" or "pissed off Republicans" will vote for, I would argue that a move to the center can't do this effectively, because the center doesn't actually offer any reason to vote for it. It doesn't have a narrative or meaningful answers, and is associated with the maintenance of a toxic status quo. It can't convert people who weren't already onboard, and it also can't win over the massive chunk of people who are so disillusioned with the status quo that they won't go to the polls at all if the status quo and Trump are their only options. Moving left and offering an actual left-wing narrative and answer for our crises is the only thing with the power to do that. We live in times where, again, the traditional left-right distinction is ripe to be supplanted by a status quo-vs-populist distinction instead. The fash are already pushing right-populism aggressively, and the only thing that can actually defeat it long-term is left-populism.

Perhaps, you misunderstand what I mean by Far Left. In my understanding, the Far Left are the parties that include the Trotskyists and Left Anarchists not what is being referred to in popular political rhetoric today. If you are indeed speaking the same parties as I am, then we need to have a real conversation.

The U.S. is not, in any way, in shape to have a revolution. The true left does not have the support needed. Now, if you're talking Sanders and Democratic Socialism, maybe the country can entertain the idea. Only maybe, but Bernie doesn't have the backing, polls reveal that centrists would be more likely to be successful.

I feel that we need to, above all, defeat Trump else this current Fascist course continue. However, there are leftists who believe that the more right-wing a climate, the more likely a revolution will succeed. Personally, I prefer not to tempt fate.